Incident on The Smiler 02/06/2015

[GaryH]

Unfortunately, that's the world we now live in. We now live in the United States of Great Britain, although the word Great is hard to justify these days.

 

[MichelinMan]

They wont remove the ride. They may re-brand it.

With regards addressing the stalling, three possible outcomes:

1. Sensors in that area to detect a stalled car
2. CCTV on that area
3. Extra weight added to the design of the cars

Edit : just saw the above post. If indeed it is lets say £500,000, to put it in context, thats just 1 day park takings..... kinda minuscule when you think of it that way.

Edit Edit: This is interesting. Its on the Daily Mirror website. There is a bit which says :

"The statement comes as lawyers for Merlin said the company take "full responsibility" for the accident."

What do I make of this? Well, its very bold for a company to say this even while the H&S investigation goes on. I can only assume they know the reason of the crash, and that the reason was human error, and therefore, was the responsibility of the park.

Companies often say that following an accident - they also often say something else when it gets into court! Taking 'full responsibility' is a bit different to an admission of guilt. But I have to say, Merlin are making all the right noises, and seem to be taking all the right actions.

 

[James]

According to Twitter, someone asked this was told:

CJ ‏@kaylen2006 14 hours ago
Just wondering why Nemesis Sub-terra is closed @altontowers??

Alton Towers Resort ‏@altontowers 24 minutes ago
@kaylen2006 Nemesis: Sub-Terra has been closed for some time for a design update

That's interesting.

I wonder whether they are changing the actor area at the end. Given actors have been removed from the attraction maybe they're changing the design to make it larger for people to just walk through.

_

On another side note the social media team are replying to some people letting them know that all rides except The Smiler are planned to open 'soon' (with no set date). So it seems like Oblivion should open soon. I'd guess they're either waiting for the investigation team to be done with The Smiler site, or they're in the process of cleaning up the area (getting rid of anything that points towards the accident) before reopening X Sector.

 

[shawnoc]

^ I do wonder why they haven't addressed the stalling by now, it must be such an inconvenience and a real dog on the customer service front.

That said, fixing the stalling isn't a solution to making the ride safer.

I'm sure it would go a long way to avoid what happened in this case. I'm not saying that is what they would defiantly do as it would cost a fortune, it just an option I thought of.

 

[Rick]

^ I don't disagree, but that can't be part of the solution.

 

[Dave]

I

I'm sure it would go a long way to avoid what happened in this case. I'm not saying that is what they would defiantly do as it would cost a fortune, it just an option I thought of.

It hasn't staled since early 2013, think they thought it was fixed (they did work on it)

 

[Sam]

Maybe they'll do a Drachen Fire and remove the inversion before the second lift, which seems to cause the non-trim related stalling. It dawned on me that this could be an option while explaining to people at work that there are coasters that can stall (Smiler, Spinball) and those that can never stall (Nemesis, Oblivion).

Unfortunately, that's the world we now live in. We now live in the United States of Great Britain, although the word Great is hard to justify these days.

It's political correctness gone mad mate.

 

[Spark]

It was very windy on that day also, let's not forget that could if had something to do with it stalling

 

[PeteB]

It dawned on me that this could be an option while explaining to people at work that there are coasters that can stall (Smiler, Spinball) and those that can never stall (Nemesis, Oblivion)

Just out of curiosity, how do you figure that Nemesis could never stall?

 

[rightbackgranty]

I can't see why they need to make any track altercations? It was a very windy day with an empty carriage - less mass, less momentum therefore more likely to stall. It hasn't stalled for 2 years, its hardly a recurring problem. Demanding a reprofiling of the track is excessive.

The big question of the investigation is unlikely to be why did it stall, more likely to be why was a full carriage able to enter a section of track it shouldn't. It's that they will be aiming to stop from happening, not the stalling.

On another note - has anyone been on park today? Are there any obvious differences in ride operation re: 'Extra layers of safety'.

 

[Sam]

Just out of curiosity, how do you figure that Nemesis could never stall?

Because even to a layman it seems pretty clear that at no point in the layout does the train travel slow enough that environmental factors could cause it to stop. If it could stall then it would have done sometime in the last 20 years, with an empty train on a sub-zero day during pre-season tests - there's no testimony or evidence of it even coming close. Also, B&M said that it couldn't.

The big question of the investigation is unlikely to be why did it stall, more likely to be why was a full carriage able to enter a section of track it shouldn't. It's that they will be aiming to stop from happening, not the stalling.

The only cast-iron way of making sure this can't happen again is making it impossible to stall. Certainly do-able with a track alteration.

 

[Kelpie]

Must be awful as well as she had only passed her driving test a couple of weeks before the accident.

She will still be able to drive an automatic - with it being her left leg affected an automatic car won't need any adaptions made to it as you don't have a clutch, and the other two pedals are operated with your right foot.
It's a small thing, but important in the realms of the lots of things that will change in her life that something doesn't have to.

It is terribly sad, though in many ways unfortunately given what we have known even without sensationalising it, there was going to be a high chance of this outcome for at least one of those hurt.
As far as settlements go, aside from the publicity angle they will take the life long impact aspect into account (prosthetics aint cheap, and I imagine that there will be efforts to obtain the best for her) - though bear in mind when we talk of money and comparing the UK to the US, there the settlements will also be covering the costs of medical treatment bills which is probably why also it does become 'all about the money', (something my family have been repeatedly reiterating lately is the greatest thing about having the NHS).

I truly wish the best for her and hope her and her family have all the support they need in place. Her life has changed but not ended, in both senses of it.
And that is my last word on the matter, in respect to her privacy and I hope the media will do the same. We now know, so no need to speculate further.

 

[cg_82]

Something that you guys might be interested in listening to if you have 3hrs 20mins spare. A podcast/discussion on LBC Radio entitled 'Following the Alton Towers accident, should we close theme parks forever? - 6 Jun 15'

I haven't listened to it myself but some of you guys may be interested. However, you need to be subscribed to download/listen.

As it happens, they're also currently, discussing the following topic live (around other topics, of course)
"Has the crash at Alton Towers changed your perception of the theme park industry forever?"
http://app.musicradio.com/lbclondon/on-air/player/

 

[phildenholm]

It was very windy on that day also, let's not forget that could if had something to do with it stalling

Maybe the extra layer will include closing rides if the wind is too bad etc?

I think they would get away with increased hill lift speed to resolve the issue with the stalling after all the trims on the airtime hill are used to decrease the speed of the car as it passes into the knot feature, they may even get away with adjusting the speed at which the trim is activated.

Too early to say for sure but it's starting to look likely that the trim and the wind were the cause of the stall as for the second car coming into the block with the stalled car in it we will have to wait and see but the best theory I have read is the one from the lad that used to work on the smiler that was quoted from another site about 20 pages back.

 

[Dave]

I know this sounds counterintuitive but the fact the ride stalled is not relevant. Even if a coaster has never stalled the safety system is designed as though it could (even B&M). The question is nothing to do with stalling and everything to do with why the block system failed.

As for that radio phone in, if the world ever becomes a place where humans become so risk averse we start shutting down safe places like theme parks then the race is doomed.

 

[phildenholm]

so you would be happy to go on the ride if it was likely to stall? Even without being injured I wouldn't want to be stuck there for 4 hours, the stalling issue needs looking at although granted not as much as the blocking issue.

 

[monkeyboy]

Maybe the extra layer will include closing rides if the wind is too bad etc?

I think they would get away with increased hill lift speed to resolve the issue with the stalling after all the trims on the airtime hill are used to decrease the speed of the car as it passes into the knot feature, they may even get away with adjusting the speed at which the trim is activated.

Too early to say for sure but it's starting to look likely that the trim and the wind were the cause of the stall as for the second car coming into the block with the stalled car in it we will have to wait and see but the best theory I have read is the one from the lad that used to work on the smiler that was quoted from another site about 20 pages back.

They drop down to 3 ppl max when it rains on sonic already. So they already had some weather related procedures in place.

Not sure why the drop to 3 but it happens.

 

[Dave]

so you would be happy to go on the ride if it was likely to stall? Even without being injured I wouldn't want to be stuck there for 4 hours, the stalling issue needs looking at although granted not as much as the blocking issue.

Is that what I said? A ride that stalls is badly designed but the stall shouldn't be a risk factor as the safety systems should prevent other trains entering that block, that's why the block system is the crux of this.

Any ride could stall if something affected a wheel bogie badly enough, hence why all coaster manufacturers plan for it even if they have no history of it.

 

[Tom]

They drop down to 3 ppl max when it rains on sonic already. So they already had some weather related procedures in place.

Not sure why the drop to 3 but it happens.

It's just the additional weight and the less effectiveness of the brakes in the wet, basically.

The changes they are having trouble making quickly are intriguing though.

 

[rightbackgranty]

so you would be happy to go on the ride if it was likely to stall? Even without being injured I wouldn't want to be stuck there for 4 hours, the stalling issue needs looking at although granted not as much as the blocking issue.

Well, if it was a case of 'Stalled but safe' v 'Stalled with collision' then yes, I would happily sit for 4 hours waiting to be removed from the ride - an exaggeration I know but this is essentially what the main aim of the investigation will be. I'm sure HSE will understand that with the best will in the world you cannot remove risk of failure (i.e. stalling). Lets face it, they allowed the ride to operate these last 2-3 years with full knowledge that stalls have occurred before, so it's not a major issue. The fact the ride performed an action that just should not be possible is what needs to be looked into.

Considering the sheer engineering challenge this ride posed, from number of inversions to its compact size I'm amazed that stalling has only occurred once in 2 years. I'm not entirely sure theres a great deal that can be done to stop that from happening completely outside of re-profiling and that, in turn, could have impacts on the rest of the ride. It's probably an issue the park will have to live with for now.

Remember - stalling in itself is not dangerous, as long as correct procedures are followed. It's when things go catastrophically wrong, such as this incident, that it becomes a risk. A car is not dangerous in a sensible persons hands until the breaks fail, being a coarse analogy.