• ℹ️ Heads up...

    This is a popular topic that is fast moving Guest - before posting, please ensure that you check out the first post in the topic for a quick reminder of guidelines, and importantly a summary of the known facts and information so far. Thanks.

Incident on The Smiler 02/06/2015

Status
This topic has been locked. No further replies can be posted.
It does seem to have picked up since I initially checked which is good.

Numbers will be down for varying reasons but it doesn't look too bad. I suppose it does depend exactly how much throughputs are reduced with the new procedures.

:)
 
jon81uk said:
The speed of the lift hill doesn't determine the speed the car will travel on the track. Gravity and potential energy do, all the lift hill does is get it to the top of the hill. Think of Oblivion, if I speed up the lift hill, will the car drop quicker?

Launched coasters don't have lift hills such as the Incredible Hulk at IoA or Rita or Stealth, these are fired up the incline or along the track either by wheels or a cable at very high speed and therefore the start speed is based on the speed you are accelerated to by the launch, not the potential energy at the top of the drop.

So yes, you could replace the chain lift with a launch but then it is an entirely different type of coaster and it may affect the ride in other areas, such as needing more brakes or just being uncomfortable.
Click to expand...

Not quite true, in both cases (launched or not) you're true in stating the change in Kinetic Energy is (without taking friction/other energy wastage into account) equal to change in GPE, however the initial kinetic energy will also have an impact (up until terminal velocity)

0.5m(v^2 - u^2) = mgh
v^2 = u^2 +2gh

Oblivion is a special case as it is released over the hill after a stop, however smiler is provided with some KE by the lift.
 
Dave said:
ADIPS safety test amusement rides, they are not part of the HSE but they work under their accreditation. All Rides get ADIPS check before their opened and annually.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that Dave - didn't know who they were.

In that case, almost certainly the HSE wouldn't have known about any stalls during testing. Accreditation by the HSE purely means that the HSE has confirmed the capability of an organisation (in this case ADIPS) to carry out its functions. It wouldn't mean that the HSE gets to learn about anything they do, necessarily.
 
With the speed terms of the energy equation raised to the power of 2, the energy from the initial speed is usually almost insignificant. Increasing the speed of the lift hill by 5mph will increase the top speed slightly, but not by 5mph. The exact increase will depend on the previous top speed, with smaller increases on faster rides.
 
The only way the car would be 'faster' from the drop is if it is accelerated over the edge, ie carries momentum over with it when released from the chain. Speeding the lift would not give it extra potential energy, which is based on the height of the drop only
 
EuroSatch said:
The only way the car would be 'faster' from the drop is if it is accelerated over the edge, ie carries momentum over with it when released from the chain. Speeding the lift would not give it extra potential energy, which is based on the height of the drop only
Click to expand...

If the chain is running faster then the car has more potential energy as it leaves the chain surely, but as John said it would be such a small difference in speed.

@John help us out here
 
Dave said:
If the chain is running faster then the car has more potential energy as it leaves the chain surely, but as John said it would be such a small difference in speed.

@John help us out here
Click to expand...

The lifthill provides kinetic energy not potential energy.

I can't do the formulae as others can, but I think of it like a toy car on a slope. Push the toy car up the hill slightly quicker it will get to the top quicker, but it is gravity that will make it go down the hill the other side as the push just got it to the top. Add a launch mechanism and launch the car up a slope significantly quicker and the launch will propel the car up the slop and then down the hill faster.
 
jon81uk said:
The lifthill provides kinetic energy not potential energy.

I can't do the formulae as others can, but I think of it like a toy car on a slope. Push the toy car up the hill slightly quicker it will get to the top quicker, but it is gravity that will make it go down the hill the other side as the push just got it to the top. Add a launch mechanism and launch the car up a slope significantly quicker and the launch will propel the car up the slop and then down the hill faster.
Click to expand...

that kinetic energy doesn't dissolve once you leave the chain though as you can't create or destroy energy, so what ever you call it if there is more kinetic energy from the chain the train will have more kinetic energy when it leaves the chain. So speed will be affected.

Just not by much as john says.

Your analogy would only work if you first stopped at the top of the slope, your not accounting for that kenetic energy from the chain and where it goes.
 
Kinetic energy and potential energy interchange. The lift provides kinetic energy to 'do work', pushing the car to the top of the lift. At the top, all energy is potential, as it is essentially held there, and released under gravity. If the lift can provide enough energy so that it rolls over the crest of the hill of its own accord, then it was the potential energy of the drop height, plus the kinetic energy provided by the lift. This energy would be minuscule though, and would need to be pushed over with some force and make it over the hill with some speed to majorly impact on its maximum kinetic energy - and therefore maximum speed - at its lowest point on the track
 
I'm guessing Monday was down as people who may have to travel, cancelled so they didn't set off to find it closed. People would have got nervous if it was closed sat/sun and just not bothered. Way I see it
 
EuroSatch said:
Kinetic energy and potential energy interchange. The lift provides kinetic energy to 'do work', pushing the car to the top of the lift. At the top, all energy is potential, as it is essentially held there, and released under gravity. If the lift can provide enough energy so that it rolls over the crest of the hill of its own accord, then it was the potential energy of the drop height, plus the kinetic energy provided by the lift. This energy would be minuscule though, and would need to be pushed over with some force and make it over the hill with some speed to majorly impact on its maximum kinetic energy - and therefore maximum speed - at its lowest point on the track
Click to expand...

Yeah that's what I thought.

Physics lesson over.
 
EuroSatch said:
Kinetic energy and potential energy interchange. The lift provides kinetic energy to 'do work', pushing the car to the top of the lift. At the top, all energy is potential, as it is essentially held there, and released under gravity. If the lift can provide enough energy so that it rolls over the crest of the hill of its own accord, then it was the potential energy of the drop height, plus the kinetic energy provided by the lift. This energy would be minuscule though, and would need to be pushed over with some force and make it over the hill with some speed to majorly impact on its maximum kinetic energy - and therefore maximum speed - at its lowest point on the track
Click to expand...

Thats what I meant. and if the car is being pushed over with some speed (enough to impact on its kinetic energy as you say) then it becomes a launched coaster, not a lift hill really.
 
They're not going to change the lift hill mechanism, anything that will provide additional kinetic energy on top of the potential energy will be too much of a design departure. I doubt that the stalling issue will feature in the required improvements of the prohibition notice, it'll focus on the block failure (be that a system fault or human error in override).

I think the best we can hope for in terms of track reprofiling is what they did last winter (or was it the one before?) with some fettling with the angry grinders. The bulk of the effort will be put into the block systems and procedures.
 
Looks like Alton Towers are getting a little confused on Facebook:


Jon Boardman responds
I have sun tickets for Tuesday, due to x sector not being available can I use these tickets at Thorpe park? Thanks

Alton Towers responds
Hi Jon, as Alton Towers is open tomorrow you will only be able to use your tickets here, not at Thorpe Park. Thank you. (NOT VALID)

  • Someone posts picture to another post where Alton state this is fine until further notice (VALID)

Alton Towers responds
Alton Towers Sun tickets will be accepted on the day stated at Warwick Castle, Thorpe Park, Chessington World of Adventures or LEGOLAND Windsor until further notice. (VALID)

Alton Towers then responds
Hi Chlo, Sun entrance tickets for Alton Towers are only valid at Alton Towers. (NOT VALID)

Finally Alton Towers responds
Due to X-sector closure today and from the event from last week, Sun tickets are valid for other limited attractions for those affected days. We will announce any updates as soon as available. So keep checking back. (VALID)

More interestingly...

Matt Drayson (50 minutes or so ago)
So they are valid tomorrow at Thorpe park?

Alton Towers responds
If X sector is closed, we will be updating whether it is closed soon, please check our website and social media sites for updates.


Looks like X-Sector might be reopening soon without the Smiler of course.

I'm going to guess that Alton new the press would be on site, Monday and that by delaying X sector opening it would limit the damage news reports could produce. I'm guessing it will open by Friday in time for the weekend.
 
^^ That's the first stumble I've seen from them. Communications have been pretty solid throughout this past week, from Social Media to Varney vs. Burley.
 
OK guys so I just got back from a day at the towers.

The first thing I noticed is that you no longer get that voice over on the monorail talking about all the different rides in the park, I assume this had a reference to The Smiler in it? it has simply been replaced by some quiet sounds effects. They actually opened the park gates early today, we were in by 9.45, I should also mention that as soon as we entered the park we were handed free return tickets which are valid for use any time this season, everyone apart from annual pass holders were given these free tickets.

In terms of rides, they all opened at 10am precisely with the only exception being the water rides which opened at 11. All of the major coasters were operating with 2 trains and as mentioned before in the thread one train would remain in the station until the second had completed the circuit and had reached the final break run, I also noticed there were a lot of engineers hanging around the rides today. Apart from that I didn't really notice any additional checks being made, throughput seemed to be about the same. None of the rides had any downtime throughout the day.

In terms of staff, there seemed to be a lot more than usual there today everywhere you went there were members of staff walking around. They were all very friendly and approachable as usual. None of them seemed low on morale, they all looked happy to be there and help.

In terms of atmosphere, the park was pretty much empty today, every ride was pretty much walk on (I'm not complaining!) the only queue we had to stand in was for thirteen for about 10 mins. As I mentioned above staff remained positive and to be honest everything just seemed normal, if somehow you lived under a rock and had no idea about the crash you certainly wouldn't have found out about it at the park.

A few other points to mention:
All branding to do with The Smiler and Big 6 challenge has been completely removed
X-Sector was obviously completely sealed off, the towers were also shut and sealed off

All in all it was a great day out, I will be returning on Thursday. Just wish Oblivion was open!
 
I do worry about the effect on throughputs for Th13teen if they can't send a train until the next one is in the brakes. All the other currently operating coasters tend to only have one train out at a time anyway.
 
Status
This topic has been locked. No further replies can be posted.
Top