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Incident on The Smiler 02/06/2015

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I have experience of plc control systems and programming so can speak with a little knowledge.
In my opinion from what I have read this was probably caused by human error.
When the train stalled the system detected a fault (in this case that the train didn't make it to the sensor at the end of the first block within its time allowed period) so would of stopped the system automatically with a fault code.
An engineer would then normally be called to investigate, why a stalled train was not spotted at this point is anyone's guess.
An engineer can reset the fault and start the ride again because the control system doesn't know that the train is stalled it only knows that it didn't make the sensor and has then been reset and cleared as ok.
There should be a procedure for this reset and my guess is that is either not correct or was not carried out.
This would explain the park being closed whilst procedures are checked, updated and personnel retrained on other coasters.
If it turns out to be human error I feel very sorry for the person who made the mistake (we all make them) but I then see no reason why the ride would then remain closed after that.

I wish all involved a speedy recovery.
 
I wouldn't say this is an incentive to not ride, not in any way. There have been previous accidents on coasters that are much worse than this (granted, this accident has been awful for all parties) but the coasters have continued operating and the GP on the whole seem oblivious to any accidents a few years afterwards.

Then again, with the way the press have reported this, it wouldn't surprise me if some members are deterred from riding.
 
Sorry for the second post, but on itv, they are comparing the smiler to the Thomas cook deaths and someone falling to their death at six flags!!!:mad:
OUTRAGED!!!
 
Mirror are reporting that human error is now being looked into, could this be why the park has remained closed? HSE wont sign it off?

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spinba11 said:
Just had a thought, it could of been due to a guest illness that the first train was sent empty.
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The smiler sends empty cars round lots because of how sensitive the sensors are (ironically to stop this happening) however I wouldn't rule it out as a possibility. I hope that the tabloids don't hear this idea because the amount they exaggerate (highlighted in my last post) and they would begin blaming that guest.

And Oh yeah... bbc are now questioning how safe roller coasters in general are
 
Right, I've just joined and this is my first post so hear me through.
ITV showed how the block sensors worked and apparently for some reason stopped working and then the crash occurred. Now, who are we to blame here? Alton Towers or Gerstlauer, the manufacturer? Or the ride op? Reply and let me know what you think, I'm curious.
 
Bantanium said:
Right, I've just joined and this is my first post so hear me through.
ITV showed how the block sensors worked and apparently for some reason stopped working and then the crash occurred. Now, who are we to blame here? Alton Towers or Gerstlauer, the manufacturer? Or the ride op? Reply and let me know what you think, I'm curious.
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I'd say Gerstlauer but human error is possible. Not towers. No.
 
I have a hypothetical scenario. I'm not saying that this is in any way what happened but from my perspective as a design student, it's a situation that raises some interesting questions about human factors and liability.

-The stalled train was known about
-The train on the lift was intended to be reversed down the lift to be evacuated
-The ride was put into full manual mode
-The lift motor was accidentally run in the wrong direction
-As the train was at the top of the lift, there was not enough time to realise the mistake.

If this were the case, there is no way that this could have happened on any ride in the world other than The Smiler as it's the first roller coaster to feature this type of lift hill. This might explain why there was no system to prevent it from happening. It was a scenario that just hadn't been considered.

Also, if there was any ambiguity surrounding the lift hill control system that could easily lead to it being run in the wrong direction, unless the issue was flagged up, an incident of this type was probably inevitable.

If this was the case (and again, I'm not saying it is), would the ride operator be liable or would it be the designer of the control system? I'd always lean towards the opinion that rides should be designed in such a way that human error should not be a factor in the safe operation of the ride.
 
Aaaaannnnyway.......

At this point we've probably got all the information we are going to get for the forseeable future. We probably won't hear any more until the results of the investigation are published.
 
I don't
Bantanium said:
Right, I've just joined and this is my first post so hear me through.
ITV showed how the block sensors worked and apparently for some reason stopped working and then the crash occurred. Now, who are we to blame here? Alton Towers or Gerstlauer, the manufacturer? Or the ride op? Reply and let me know what you think, I'm curious.
Click to expand...

Well first up, welcome to the forum!

Whilst ITV did have a graphic showing where the accident occurred and how the trains collided, it hasn't got the information to explain why - it's just pure speculation in the same way as we're speculating in this topic. There's so many factors that need to be considered, which is no doubt one of the reasons why the resort and Merlin have taken the decision to close the ride. It'll be some time before we hear any sort of report as to what actually happened.
 
Just read this on TT but there was no link attached to it. Shows how serious the situation was and how stupid the people are who are questioning the time taken to remove people from the carriage:

WMAS assistant area manager for Stoke Peter Howell, aged 52, from Trentham said: "When we arrived, we quickly realised what a difficult and prolonged job we would be dealing with. A carriage with 16 people in it had collided with a stationary one at speed.

"It was almost like a road traffic accident, but in mid-air. The carriage had come to rest in a concrete basin or bowl and was about 20 or so feet in the air.

"We could see the front carriage had taken the impact of the collision and the four people there were the most seriously injured. We could see the two girls had open fractures on their legs and were bleeding heavily.

"The Alton Towers staff and first responders were already on the scene and had erected a scaffolding platform in order to reach the patients. It did not take long to erect a second so we could get our paramedics, air ambulance medics and doctors up to them.

"It was very delicate work and it was really difficult to get the patients clear. In a road collision, it is relatively simple to remove the patient from the vehicle but with rides they are very specifically-designed seats with harnesses over the head and chest.

"Our first priority when getting up to the patients was to provide them with life-saving treatment they needed to arrest the haemorrhaging. One of the girls was bleeding out quite profusely.

"Once the bleeding was arrested we then worked out the safest scenario for getting them down. Eventually we managed to winch them to the ground, where they were reassessed, before they were put in the air ambulance via the same system.

"When you compare it to a very serious road traffic collision, where it can take us up to an hour to remove just one patient, we managed to safely remove 16 patients in about four and a half hours.

"We had to put the priority on the first four patients, however we had other paramedics up on the platform talking constantly with the other 12 people.

"The other people were absolutely brilliant. They understood why they had to wait and why we had to deal with the others first. They were very patient and credit must go to them for waiting.

"From a personal perspective, it would certainly be nice to get an update on how the patients are doing."
 
BarryZola said:
Just read this on TT but there was no link attached to it. Shows how serious the situation was and how stupid the people are who are questioning the time taken to remove people from the carriage:

WMAS assistant area manager for Stoke Peter Howell, aged 52, from Trentham said: "When we arrived, we quickly realised what a difficult and prolonged job we would be dealing with. A carriage with 16 people in it had collided with a stationary one at speed.

"It was almost like a road traffic accident, but in mid-air. The carriage had come to rest in a concrete basin or bowl and was about 20 or so feet in the air.

"We could see the front carriage had taken the impact of the collision and the four people there were the most seriously injured. We could see the two girls had open fractures on their legs and were bleeding heavily.

"The Alton Towers staff and first responders were already on the scene and had erected a scaffolding platform in order to reach the patients. It did not take long to erect a second so we could get our paramedics, air ambulance medics and doctors up to them.

"It was very delicate work and it was really difficult to get the patients clear. In a road collision, it is relatively simple to remove the patient from the vehicle but with rides they are very specifically-designed seats with harnesses over the head and chest.

"Our first priority when getting up to the patients was to provide them with life-saving treatment they needed to arrest the haemorrhaging. One of the girls was bleeding out quite profusely.

"Once the bleeding was arrested we then worked out the safest scenario for getting them down. Eventually we managed to winch them to the ground, where they were reassessed, before they were put in the air ambulance via the same system.

"When you compare it to a very serious road traffic collision, where it can take us up to an hour to remove just one patient, we managed to safely remove 16 patients in about four and a half hours.

"We had to put the priority on the first four patients, however we had other paramedics up on the platform talking constantly with the other 12 people.

"The other people were absolutely brilliant. They understood why they had to wait and why we had to deal with the others first. They were very patient and credit must go to them for waiting.

"From a personal perspective, it would certainly be nice to get an update on how the patients are doing."
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Great post mate. I really shouldn't speculate, even though that's what we're doing but I'm gonna put together some information and generate a little "report" of what we have so far :)
 
I have news on the other 2 victims. They are from my home town. The 27 year old man i lived next to for over 10 years. He is still in hospital. Hes serious but not too bad. Thats all ive heard regarding him. The 19 year old girl has basically lost a leg. She was given options on wether to amputate it or not. Thats all i know at the moment. Like i said they are from where i live which is 40 mins away from AT.
 
NeilXEdge said:
I have news on the other 2 victims. They are from my home town. The 27 year old man i lived next to for over 10 years. He is still in hospital. Hes serious but not too bad. Thats all ive heard regarding him. The 19 year old girl has basically lost a leg. She was given options on wether to amputate it or not. Thats all i know at the moment. Like i said they are from where i live which is 40 mins away from AT.
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That's really good of you to post that here! Thanks mate! Really appreciate that.
 
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