Incident on The Smiler 02/06/2015

[Rob]

The HSE investigation is ongoing. As far as I am aware they still have control of the site and the ride. Towers will be 'operating' the testing for the HSE. It will give all parties a good idea of what went wrong as they can replicate various scenarios relating to the block systems.

The HSE inspectors will deal with a wide range of investigations and probably don't have the best understanding of how coasters work. Seeing it in operation etc will aid with this and help them get to their final conclusion.

 

[MichelinMan]

Apart from the guy in The Mirror - who wasn't any of the most severely injured passengers - I think they families have been quite responsible in the reactions. At the end of the day, Merlin have not shied away from any discussion of compensation, and have also acknowledged that money cannot undo the unfortunate incident. It's the media who are trying to get all the meat out of this story, and to be honest I think it's about time they moved on.

When accidents have happened in other parks, it's been a brief news bulletin on the day and that following, and then that's it. I don't understand why this has continued as much as it has just because they are the largest theme park in the UK

I think the reason this story is running longer is because of the multiple serious injuries involved.

The HSE have a concept of societal - or group - risk. Society in general is more tolerant of individual people being killed or injured than groups of people. Just witness how many people are killed on roads every day, but they tend to be single fatalities, so nobody really thinks about them too much. But as soon as multiple people get hurt, 'society' views this as something bigger. That is why the HSE classifies cases of multiple serious injuries in the same accident as a major incident - they realise that this will attract the attention of 'society' - and the press in particular. Tolerable risk criteria for groups of people is lower than for individual risk - the HSE publication Reducing Risks Protecting People (R2P2) talks a lot about this, if you are really interested in the concept.

Add in the fact that the people are still in hospital, and details of the injuries are still leaking out - and you have a nice easy story for reporters to write about. Minimal work required to string out a story to fill column inches that people are interested in. You just need to look on the BBC website to see how often stories about this incident figures in the most read stories of the day. You could make an argument that there may have been less stories if there had been fatalities, and no other injuries - the story may have disappeared by now, because there wouldn't have been any more information to come out until the investigation concludes.

I must admit, I was hoping to keep the severity of this incident away from my son (who was a wimp about going on rides anyway), but it has been shown so much on TV he found out about it anyway. Hasn't seemed to put him off too much thankfully, especially as we are off in less than 4 weeks now. He did say he definitely wouldn't be riding Smiler though (not that he would ever have dared to anyway - this is a guy who, at the age of 6, screamed getting on It's A Small World because he thought it might be scary!). Just hoping he still wants to go on Rita and 13 though (suspect Nemesis is going to be a step too far for him this year).

 

[EuroSatch]

This doesn't make any sense. If a plane crashed and people died and the airline said your flight had been cancelled and you wouldn't be getting a refund because you used air-miles, you would be totally happy with that outcome?

Just because something is tragic the company still has a line of care to existing customers.

I'll say it again, IF YOU'VE PAID NOTHING and lost NOTHING... it's easy to judge those who are complaining on Facebook, Twitter and these forums.

In your own words PERSPECTIVE, it's different for you, it's different for those that have forked out money to visit.

You've missed my point... I'm talking about MAP holders expecting something out of entitlement. The plane crash is rather an extreme example, and you would get refund of air miles used

 

[MichelinMan]

The HSE investigation is ongoing. As far as I am aware they still have control of the site and the ride. Towers will be 'operating' the testing for the HSE. It will give all parties a good idea of what went wrong as they can replicate various scenarios relating to the block systems.

The HSE inspectors will deal with a wide range of investigations and probably don't have the best understanding of how coasters work. Seeing it in operation etc will aid with this and help them get to their final conclusion.

HSE has a specialist 'Fairgrounds' team, that specialises in investigation of fairground and amusement park rides. So they wouldn't be that unfamiliar with how coasters work. But you are right, merlin could be showing exactly how the ride operates to them.

Just want to correct one thing though - at no point will the HSE ever be in 'control of the site'. The responsibility for controlling the site always stays with the duty holder (in this case Merlin). The HSE could only have issued a Prohibition Notice (which we know about), and also potentially a Notice to Leave Undisturbed (to stop something being moved, touched or opened before they have had a chance to examine it - for example, any data loggers that might be linked to the control system).

 

[jon81uk]

I think the reason this story is running longer is because of the multiple serious injuries involved.

The HSE have a concept of societal - or group - risk. Society in general is more tolerant of individual people being killed or injured than groups of people. Just witness how many people are killed on roads every day, but they tend to be single fatalities, so nobody really thinks about them too much. But as soon as multiple people get hurt, 'society' views this as something bigger. That is why the HSE classifies cases of multiple serious injuries in the same accident as a major incident - they realise that this will attract the attention of 'society' - and the press in particular. Tolerable risk criteria for groups of people is lower than for individual risk - the HSE publication Reducing Risks Protecting People (R2P2) talks a lot about this, if you are really interested in the concept.

Add in the fact that the people are still in hospital, and details of the injuries are still leaking out - and you have a nice easy story for reporters to write about. Minimal work required to string out a story to fill column inches that people are interested in. You just need to look on the BBC website to see how often stories about this incident figures in the most read stories of the day. You could make an argument that there may have been less stories if there had been fatalities, and no other injuries - the story may have disappeared by now, because there wouldn't have been any more information to come out until the investigation concludes.

I must admit, I was hoping to keep the severity of this incident away from my son (who was a wimp about going on rides anyway), but it has been shown so much on TV he found out about it anyway. Hasn't seemed to put him off too much thankfully, especially as we are off in less than 4 weeks now. He did say he definitely wouldn't be riding Smiler though (not that he would ever have dared to anyway - this is a guy who, at the age of 6, screamed getting on It's A Small World because he thought it might be scary!). Just hoping he still wants to go on Rita and 13 though (suspect Nemesis is going to be a step too far for him this year).

I was thinking similar thoughts, that basically a dead person is dead, the media can't interview them, its over. But a serious life-changing thing like losing a leg makes a bigger news story as they " have to live with it".

 

[bluesonichd]

...and I would still be happy with a donut ...

 

[Slugjc]

Again, I feel you're being incredibly insensitive to these families by implying they have been undignified in their response to their loved ones being seriously injured. Thank you for patronisingly pointing out that lawyers have to make money too - I'm not really sure what that has to do with the issue at hand however. I feel this adverse reaction to the families' demands that Merlin is punished is limited to this forum though. So far (in the press, comments on social media and personal experience), I would say that most people are understanding of the families' response and if anything, believe they have acted with great dignity and respectability given the circumstances. It appears it is just yourself and potentially another member of this forum who have been so critical of the family/families.


I take your point, ill hold my hands up and yes uts a little insensitive. And you are welcome for being patronised. Being in a real world and speaking to people ive found that actually people have been saying that to come out that quick is a little money grabbing. But hey that's the level of intelligence I have to work with. I haven't actually criticised the families just that family. I hope they get what they want. I hope that there lives get back to what it was pre Tuesday. My point still stands (if that's ok by you) is that I hope they get the justice they deserve, I hope merlin comply with the families and give them what they want. I hope that they can do all this by sitting down. Talking and not going through the press.

 

[Tarquin]

Slugjc, I apologise if my last post seemed a little passive aggressive but while you're allowed to have your opinion (it's not a matter of 'if that's okay'), I'm also allowed to completely disagree with it. The family aren't hurting anyone. They're dealing with the situation as well as can be expected. The 'going through the press' that you're referring to (from a single family) appears to be a two line statement from the lawyer of three of the victims with no further statement given (but please correct me if I'm wrong).

Either way, I can certainly agree with you that I hope all the families are well supported and looked after by Merlin in the future. That is the important thing here. Lets both have a donut as bluesonichd keeps suggesting in order to start again!

 

[Slugjc]

eh look I like a debate, I always think that its better to wait, see what happens. R kids a lawyer that's what his firm are told to do. Nothing against you. I know my views wont be shared. I know I wont agree with everything said on here, bit that's what this forum is for. Pretty dull if we all just said the same thing.

 

[BarryZola]

On my personal FB page I've only seen positive stories/posts over the past week (no negative ones) about Alton. They've been about the Kay Burley/Varney video mostly and AT have come out of it very well. All will be good.

 

[bluesonichd]

Just heard the Leah Washington has been standing, I think thats a bit of a miracle lets hope the improvements for her and the others continue

 

[Tarquin]

On my personal FB page I've only seen positive stories/posts over the past week (no negative ones) about Alton. They've been about the Kay Burley/Varney video mostly and AT have come out of it very well. All will be good.

I believe someone on a certain other Alton Towers forum has posted a list of the most complained about TV shows of the past week (I have no idea where they got it from so can't vouch for its authenticity). It showed 1002 people complained about the Kay Burley news programme (when the interview was broadcast) which is a much bigger number than I was expecting if I'm honest! In comparison, the Britain's Got Talent final (with their hidden winning dog scandal) got 1023. Clearly people agreed the interview was unfair and unprofessional.

EDIT: http://www.theguardian.com/media/20...n-towers-chief-gets-more-than-1100-complaints

 

[bluesonichd]

I believe someone on a certain other Alton Towers forum has posted a list of the most complained about TV shows of the past week (I have no idea where they got it from so can't vouch for its authenticity). It showed 1002 people complained about the Kay Burley news programme (when the interview was broadcast) which is a much bigger number than I was expecting if I'm honest! In comparison, the Britain's Got Talent final (with their hidden winning dog scandal) got 1023. Clearly people agreed the interview was unfair and unprofessional.

IMO the dog needs to be put down...

 

[XXBENNXX]

Good afternoon guys, firstly i would like to say hi,

i hope this board is much more tolerant than the other one, because i am permanently banned over there for sharing my opinion, as a business owner, that the towers are at fault, an opinion that other users over there, including ukparknews said i had a very good point with, and then people started emulating the series of events i had suggested occured.

I used the same username over there, and believe my posts are still in the topic if anybody feels like confirming that i was simply making a point as a business man rather than slating a park i have spent many thousands of pounds visiting and staying at over the years.

this incident is a huge shame, and the people involved's privacy should be respected as they have asked, i feel this incident will disappear into obscurity rather quickly as the media get bored and move on to the next thing they can make a shock headline out of, paving the way for the park to re open the ride quietly and soon, which, you will be surprised at me saying, is the best course of action.

This incident was human error. I can say that confidently as towers have accepted responsibility, which wouldbe corporate suicide if anything provided by gerstlauer was to blame, as accepting liability means they are saying it was their, and not the ride itself's fault. As a business owner i would never admit liability for something that was not my fault, or out of my control. No matter what injuries may be caused.

i see this ride re opening very quickly, all things considering, they may leave it until next season, but only out of respect for the victims, certainly not because it is unsafe.

I see a statement and reopening in the near future, with merlin skewering some poor maintenance guy for the accident.

I would ride the Smiler tomorrow. This will almost certainly never happen again.

My thoughts are with the victims of this freak accident.

 

[Burbs]

We still don't know what happened yet. You can't go saying that you know what happened when nobody does, possibly not even the HSE or Merlin for the time being. Even if it was human error down the line, the block brake system should have never allowed train b to go over the top of the first lift hill, and inevitably collide with train a in the same block.

 

[BarryZola]

I see a statement and reopening in the near future, with merlin skewering some poor maintenance guy for the accident..

Welcome to the forum

I'd like to believe that the management will not be 'skewering' any staff and would instead be doing their best to protect them as much as possible if the worst was confirmed. Merlin and Alton have handled this situation admirably so far and I don't believe they will blemish this by allowing an individual to be a 'fall guy'. They have shown too much class so far for this to happen.

 

[XXBENNXX]

If the block is reset manually, logic would dictate that the system is under the impression that the block is clear. I do not know for sure what happened, but i do know for sure it was nothing to do with anything provided by gerstlauer. The park would never accept liability unless they knew that also. I have a masters in business and business management, i know what i am talking about here. When you admit liability you know it is your fault. I could never justify admitting liability for an injury caused to a customer by a product i sold them, if that product was faulty because of the manufacturer.

 

[XXBENNXX]

I can't commend the company enough for how they have handled the situation, i use skewer simply as an expression, but ultimately if what i suspect has happened, did indeed happen, then someone is losing a job at the very least.

I was one of the first to complain to ofcom over the kay burley interview, which has received over a thousand complaints now.

I am not trying to be negative, but as a business owner, this admission of liability speaks volumes.

 

[bluesonichd]

The controls/safety system is only as strong as its human operator. If its told to reset, there can be only one outcome for where the blame lies. IMO

 

[MichelinMan]

I can't commend the company enough for how they have handled the situation, i use skewer simply as an expression, but ultimately if what i suspect has happened, did indeed happen, then someone is losing a job at the very least.

I was one of the first to complain to ofcom over the kay burley interview, which has received over a thousand complaints now.

I am not trying to be negative, but as a business owner, this admission of liability speaks volumes.

Not trying to be picky here, but they have admitted responsibility - but not liability. Subtly different things in the eyes of the law. Liability implies an admission of guilt, whereas responsibility doesn't. For example, I used to work for BP. Following their incident in the Gulf of Mexico, they accepted responsibility for the accident pretty quickly, but the admission of guilt took a bit longer.

Also, just because somebody makes a human error, doesn't mean they are at fault, and need to fear for their job. There are very few human errors where you can directly lay the blame solely on the individual - you usually find there are failings in safety management systems that contributed to the human error. And I can guarantee, any person that made that error is likely to be extremely traumatised by the event by now, and deserves some sympathy as well as the injured people. You will probably find that individual now will be the greatest advocate for health and safety that Merlin will ever have.