Is it OK for a driving instructor to run errands during a driving lesson?

[Poisson]

I think we filled the car up on maybe 2 of my lessons. The stopped time was not counted towards lesson time

 

[John_P]

Only time I can remember doing anything like that was running the instructor up to a house to drop something off. Was quite useful as it meant driving on different roads to usual.

Conveniently on the day of my test when I went out with my instructor for one last practice we ended up covering about 75% of the same route the examiner had me go an hour later.
Stupidest thing I did on the test was I went to get in the car on the passenger side, then when I got in the right side forgot to take the handbrake off initially. Passed first time though so that was nice.

 

[Tim]

Learning how to add fuel to a car actually sounds like a good lesson. Even after driving for 10 years I still get nervous when traveling abroad about topping up. Last time I was in the US I was driving a hybrid jeep someone else had leant me. I remember thinking "got to check if it's unleaded or diesel" as you would in the UK. Only to find no marking on the fuel door, and then realise US 'gas' isn't even categorised that way.
Then there was a similar occasion (different country) when we found out the car ran off of LPG, and we had to find a specialist gas station.

So yes, as a learner topping up a few times, (as long as the instructor uses it as a learning opportunity), sounds like a good use of time.

 

[Jb85]

Probably the oddest topic in a theme park fan site i have ever seen

I think your being ripped off. 1.5 years to learn to drive, and running errands.

Sack them off.

 

[Matt.GC]

I'll take you on a few lessons @Matt N. I won't even charge or run errands. It won't help you pass, but will be good experience.

I'll bring the kids and make sure they're in a bad mood so that you can practice concentration whilst hearing "Are we there yet?", "How long until we get there?", "Dad I feel sick." , "Dad I'm hungry.", "Dad I've just spilt coke all over the back seat".

Other important lessons will include how to safely signal your frustration towards middle lane hoggers, the skill of predicting when a BMW or Audi driver is about to make a manoeuvre without using their indicators, what kind of cars are likely to cut into your lane when coming off of a roundabout (clue, if they're driving a Honda Jazz or Nissan Note, keep your wits about you!), how to embarrass Boy Racers in 1 litre Corsa's with silly exhausts trying to impress their girlfriends, and the importance of stopping at Reading services for a wee if you're travelling M4 eastbound and intend on continuing M25 clockwise.

 

[Slugjc]

The examples you have written about the supermarket. no. She is being paid by you to go shopping. Simple. It's your time, she should be doing this stuff when not on the clock. If she hasn't time, she maybe needs a better understanding of how a diary works. Everyone has busy lives. The vast majority of our bosses would be fuming if we took off to a shop when not on a break.

 

[James]

I agree with all of the posts above. You're paying for a service, and you're not an errand boy. Your instructor is not providing the service paid for.

If it were a one-off or at the start/end of a lesson (not as a part of your 1-hour slot), then fine, but that's not the case.

It's up to you if you switch or stay with her. I would say, though, if it comes to your test in February and you fail, switch to another instructor asap. You should not be with an instructor for two years who cannot teach you to the point of being able to pass.

 

[WillPS]

I had a terrible instructor who did this. Basically every lesson consisted of a toilet break for him or a drop off at a friend's house or the Post Office.

He was also really condescending, stank of fags and had a belittling style which didn't make me feel confident at all (and confidence is probably the main thing you need in order to pass your test, of course!).

I ended the relationship with him when someone ahead slammed the breaks on, my foot missed the break at first then caught it as I tapped the bumper ahead. He didn't engage the break at all on his pedals because he was ogling a woman. Then he wanted me to settle the 'off-insurance' repair bill the other driver supposedly wanted!

Wasted 6 months with him, found someone much better then passed within 3 (would have been 2 but made a silly mistake on a test 8 weeks in, was lucky to get a cancellation for the retest).

It shouldn't take 2 years of lessons to get you passed, even if you're really crap at it. Take some lessons with another instructor.

 

[MellowPasta]

@Matt N Got any ideas what your first car will be when you pass? It’s an exciting time. Mine was a 1 litre polo…it was a love hate relationship.

 

[John_P]

Isn't there a massive backlog for booking tests now? Seem to remember when I did the theory test in late May when I went to book the practical it was September the earliest availability and that was nearly 10 years ago now.

 

[Matt N]

A lot of people are leaping onto the “2 years” thing, but it’s not something that me or my parents are concerned about. We always knew I’d take a long time to learn to drive and we went into it with that fully in mind, so I am not vaguely surprised by the fact that it has taken me this long. My first few months behind the wheel were rocky, to say the least. There was a point early on where we had a conversation about whether it was actually worth me continuing, and had I not grasped it a little more in the nick of time as I did, there is a very real chance that she may have stopped taking me because she’d deemed me a lost cause.

My instructor also has a cautious mentality when it comes to putting people in for tests; she says to me that putting people in for a test they’re not ready for can be a huge confidence wrecker, from her experience, so she tries to err on the side of caution and not rush to put people in for tests.

Personally, I’m not at all keen to change instructor. In pretty much every other regard, I have absolutely no complaints about my current instructor. I like her and get on well with her methods; she has a really good, methodical approach for the more complicated manoeuvres that have made those infinitely easier for me, she’s taught me everything I’ll need for the test (we’ve covered all of the manoeuvres, we’ve done dual carriageway driving, and we’ve even practised a small touch of “independent driving” with a satnav), and overall, I think we have a good rapport. The sort of instances mentioned in my opening post have only happened a handful of times since I started going with her weekly in May 2022, and I hadn’t even thought anything of it until my parents were so astonished by it. She has a high first time pass rate, and when I went on a DVSA check test with her (she picked me as a “not at test standard” pupil to use), she was only one mark off being the very top grade of driving instructor.

Even if I did want to change, I live in a rural area where I am not exactly spoilt for choice. Automatic driving instructors in particular are in very short supply around here (she was the only automatic instructor we stumbled across out of a number of local driving instructors).

@Matt N Got any ideas what your first car will be when you pass? It’s an exciting time. Mine was a 1 litre polo…it was a love hate relationship.

I think my parents and I are going to cross that bridge when we get there. I don’t want to count my chickens before they hatch in terms of buying a car and assuming I‘ll pass a test, and my parents have expressed considerable reluctance to take me out practising after some turbulent practice sessions with my sister a few years back.

It’ll probably be something quite small, though. My instructor’s current car is a 2015 Toyota Yaris Hybrid, and she has previously had a 2014 Nissan Note, and I wouldn’t mind something similar in scale to that. I don’t know what sort of car budgets will stretch to, though; my parents have offered to supplement the same amount of money as they spent on my sister’s car back on 2019 (or at very least the £3,500 they recently got back for it after selling it), and I have agreed to make up any extra thousands that come from both the exponential increase in second-hand car values since 2019 and the extra price of buying an automatic car.

Isn't there a massive backlog for booking tests now? Seem to remember when I did the theory test in late May when I went to book the practical it was September the earliest availability and that was nearly 10 years ago now.

It’s a huge backlog. I booked my test at the end of August, and I only got 1st February by striking a very lucky cancellation. To get any test within 6 months, I would have either had to be on the site at the crack of dawn every day as the new tests were released or had to have gone to somewhere considerably further away than Monmouth. I think my nearest options were either the more remote parts of the West Midlands (I think the nearest option within 6 months was Hereford?) or deep into the Welsh valleys (think places like Ebbw Vale/Merthyr Tydfil/Rhondda Cynon Taff)…

 

[WillPS]

A lot of people are leaping onto the “2 years” thing, but it’s not something that me or my parents are concerned about. We always knew I’d take a long time to learn to drive and we went into it with that fully in mind, so I am not vaguely surprised by the fact that it has taken me this long. My first few months behind the wheel were rocky, to say the least. There was a point early on where we had a conversation about whether it was actually worth me continuing, and had I not grasped it a little more in the nick of time as I did, there is a very real chance that she may have stopped taking me because she’d deemed me a lost cause.

My instructor also has a cautious mentality when it comes to putting people in for tests; she says to me that putting people in for a test they’re not ready for can be a huge confidence wrecker, from her experience, so she tries to err on the side of caution and not rush to put people in for tests.

Sounds like you're being undermined, @Matt N . Also sounds like she sees you as a soft touch and wants to extract revenue from you for as long as possible.

Personally, I’m not at all keen to change instructor. In pretty much every other regard, I have absolutely no complaints about my current instructor. I like her and get on well with her methods; she has a really good, methodical approach for the more complicated manoeuvres that have made those infinitely easier for me, she’s taught me everything I’ll need for the test (we’ve covered all of the manoeuvres, we’ve done dual carriageway driving, and we’ve even practised a small touch of “independent driving” with a satnav), and overall, I think we have a good rapport. The sort of instances mentioned in my opening post have only happened a handful of times since I started going with her weekly in May 2022, and I hadn’t even thought anything of it until my parents were so astonished by it. She has a high first time pass rate, and when I went on a DVSA check test with her (she picked me as a “not at test standard” pupil to use), she was only one mark off being the very top grade of driving instructor.

People do intensive courses, start with 0 experience and finish the week with a pass. OK, that's not for everyone, but she is not doing you a favour by having taught you the dozen-or-so set pieces you need for a test in 18 months of lessons. [edited to add - especially in an automatic!]

But it's your life - and ultimately if you want to be beholden to her whims dictating the pace of when you do stuff then you'll probably have to accept that you are also beholden to her whims in terms of running errands on your dollar.

 

[RicketyCricket]

Sounds like you're being undermined, @Matt N . Also sounds like she sees you as a soft touch and wants to extract revenue from you for as long as possible.



People do intensive courses, start with 0 experience and finish the week with a pass. OK, that's not for everyone, but she is not doing you a favour by having taught you the dozen-or-so set pieces you need for a test in 18 months of lessons. [edited to add - especially in an automatic!]

But it's your life - and ultimately if you want to be beholden to her whims dictating the pace of when you do stuff then you'll probably have to accept that you are also beholden to her whims in terms of running errands on your dollar.

Completely agree, especially with automatic transmission. Although I do appreciate that everyone goes at their own pace.

Maybe have a one off taster lesson with someone else and ask for their feedback? They might conclude you're a better driver than you think.

 

[WillPS]

Reread my earlier submission and I'm not so happy with the tone of it now. I promise it's intended in good faith - I can empathise hugely with the situation you're in, I remember thinking my guy was great and it was only when I was basically forced to abandon him that I realised I'd been taken the Mickey out of.

I'm certainly not intending to say "2 years is definitively longer than it should take you" either, there's loads of variables in that and I know people who've taken far longer all-in-all. My biggest concern comes from these statements:

There was a point early on where we had a conversation about whether it was actually worth me continuing, and had I not grasped it a little more in the nick of time as I did, there is a very real chance that she may have stopped taking me because she’d deemed me a lost cause.

This should be a ginormous red flag. An instructor's job is to get people (anyone not barred from driving) from having no ability to drive to knowing how to drive safely and with confidence, and with sufficient preparation to pass a practical exam.

Driving is a skill but it's not a specialised talent, by which I mean it's not something that anyone eligible is incapable of. One might find they prefer not doing it or even actively dislike it, and some will find it easier than others; but with training it can be done.

If you take her comments at face value, what on earth was she expecting?

Either she isn't very good at her job and can only deal with those who are easy to train; she can't be bothered with people who need more tuition (=$$); or (and I think more likely, sadly) it was an attempt to undermine you - make you feel like you are a really tough (bad) student, that you're lucky to have her services and that she's doing a huge favour by continuing to take your £35/hour. It also then sets the tone in terms of discussion of next steps, she has asserted herself as being your golden ticket to cracking this code and it follows that you'd do well to follow her pace.

I've experienced a variation of this from that same instructor I mentioned before - with him it was more sarcastic in tone but the intent was exactly the same. I also know others who've been told things like "I'm starting to think this is a waste of my time and your money". If you Google you'll find it's not an uncommon technique, just deeply cynical.

The key to passing your test and driving in general is confidence, which is why this sort of comment is so reprehensible to me.

My instructor also has a cautious mentality when it comes to putting people in for tests; she says to me that putting people in for a test they’re not ready for can be a huge confidence wrecker, from her experience, so she tries to err on the side of caution and not rush to put people in for tests.

I've heard this line too - although I never fell for this one. As a general life tip don't take advice from somebody who's incentivised (financially or otherwise) to get you to do/not do something.

For what it's worth it's pretty rotten advice IMHO. Better to get a test in when you've got a sporting chance of passing so you can get experience of the test situation, best case you pass (job done), most probable case you fail but you know how the test situation feels. I don't know of anyone who's got to the stage of taking a practical exam and then totally given up when they've had a failure. I know people who've taken a breather and then come back to it sometime later, but even still most will tell you that knowledge of the experience is useful so you can properly prepare yourself.

You've started a thread on a hunch that you've been treated improperly, what I'm trying to tell you is that unfortunately you're probably right, and there's more evidence this is going on in your own statements.

It brings me no joy at all to tell you this, and I know from bitter experience it sucks to realise you've been had, but better aware than burying your head in the sand (even if you choose to just accept it and continue at this point for the sake of that February test you have booked, which I would totally understand btw). It's an important life skill being able to detect when someone is taking you for a ride, and unfortunately this likely isn't the last time you'll engage with someone who tries the same sort of thing on. Knowledge is power.

 

[Matt N]

I honestly hadn't thought anything of any of this until you brought it up. And as I said in my opening post, I hadn't thought anything of the errands either. It was only when I mentioned them in passing to my parents and they acted enraged that the thoughts spurring me to make the thread even crossed my mind.

I don't know why, but that sort of thing just doesn't occur to me. I've been made very well aware over the years that my tendency to take things at face value and not really have that cynical, questioning voice in my head is one of my biggest personal character flaws. Maybe it's because I'm still relatively young. Maybe it's because I'm autistic and perhaps have a worse ability to read non-verbal cues than average. I don't know. But for whatever reason, I know that I often have a tendency to take things at face value and not be overly questioning of what I hear, and I know that it's something that massively worries my parents.

I don't know if I have been had (posting this thread does start to make me question myself and whether I've portrayed my instructor in the correct light), but I definitely think I'd like to stick with my current instructor until I pass regardless. I overall really like her and her methods, and when I've been with her since May 2022, have learned all of the required test skills, and have got a test booked for February, I don't see the point in changing instructor this late in the game. Yes, she has her eccentricities (the occasional errands are one of them), but don't we all? I know I certainly have my own eccentricities, and I know that a different instructor would likely come with different eccentricities, so my standpoint is that I overall really like her and have nothing to complain about; certainly nothing that would warrant changing instructor this late on, anyway. "He who is without sin cast the first stone" and all that!

 

[Llama]

I think that's the right attitude to have. I really don't think you're being taken advantage of in a very serious way. As I posted before, the amount of time and therefore money your instructor has taken from you is probably somewhere around 20 or 30 bucks. It's not nothing, but if you weigh it against your otherwise fully positive feelings about your instructor, it seems like a decent trade to make.

People will always try to take advantage of other people, and it's good to be able to notice that. Unfortunately there are a lot of unscrupulous people who prey on those who are a little more trusting, and it's good to be aware of situations you're in so you can notice this. However, in this case, I think the whole thing is so minor that you're right to just let it slide. "Don't sweat the small stuff" and so on.

 

[WillPS]

To be clear - it's not an eccentricity, it's clearly quite deliberate based on what you're saying, but I totally understand why you'd stick at this stage. An eccentricity might be telling a joke every time you try to parralel park - buggering off and leaving you alone in the car while she does her own thing with the clock ticking is mickey taking.

Don't feel bad about it either man, it takes experiences like this to be more aware when someone's having you on in future. You live and learn, knowledge is power.

My experience with that instructor 10 years ago and the realisation that I'd been paying someone thousands who was then working against my best interests has helped me to notice and protect myself against this kind of thing, for example when dealing with car mechanics, builders, plumbers etc; basically anyone who sells their own services to you individually. Not everyone does this highly inethical stuff but it's not rare either.

 

[Stuie]

I don't know you Matt, but I just wanted to say that you should have more self-belief and surround yourself with positive people.
A driving instructor that questions your ability to pass when you are physically able to do needs putting in the bin.
I'd also question your parents negativity in telling you that it's going to be a long hard slog instead of giving you the words of encouragement and reassurance that could make a difference.

 

[Matt.GC]

I honestly hadn't thought anything of any of this until you brought it up. And as I said in my opening post, I hadn't thought anything of the errands either. It was only when I mentioned them in passing to my parents and they acted enraged that the thoughts spurring me to make the thread even crossed my mind.

I don't know why, but that sort of thing just doesn't occur to me. I've been made very well aware over the years that my tendency to take things at face value and not really have that cynical, questioning voice in my head is one of my biggest personal character flaws. Maybe it's because I'm still relatively young. Maybe it's because I'm autistic and perhaps have a worse ability to read non-verbal cues than average. I don't know. But for whatever reason, I know that I often have a tendency to take things at face value and not be overly questioning of what I hear, and I know that it's something that massively worries my parents.

I don't know if I have been had (posting this thread does start to make me question myself and whether I've portrayed my instructor in the correct light), but I definitely think I'd like to stick with my current instructor until I pass regardless. I overall really like her and her methods, and when I've been with her since May 2022, have learned all of the required test skills, and have got a test booked for February, I don't see the point in changing instructor this late in the game. Yes, she has her eccentricities (the occasional errands are one of them), but don't we all? I know I certainly have my own eccentricities, and I know that a different instructor would likely come with different eccentricities, so my standpoint is that I overall really like her and have nothing to complain about; certainly nothing that would warrant changing instructor this late on, anyway. "He who is without sin cast the first stone" and all that!

May I ask what spurred you to create the thread? You're a very intelligent grown man in your 20's who is just about to study for a Master's, yet you seem to care an awful lot about what others are thinking. Despite being an adult capable of making your own decisions, you seem very concerned about your parents opinions (which even extends to which car you end up purchasing?). Your driving instructor maybe the loveliest person in the world for all we know, yet a person who enters into a business agreement with you every time you enter the car basically told you early on that she thought you were nearly a lost cause, despite it being her job to ensure that that wasn't the case, and then contradicting those conversations by claiming that failing a first test would be a killer for your confidence? This all seems to have effected you so much that you wanted a third opinion from a group of people on the internet?

I could be wrong Matt, but it seems like you need more confidence in yourself. I mean, you're an incredibly intelligent person, great statistical mathematician who articulates themselves beautifully and you're well into adulthood. To hell what me, mum, dad, a driving instructor or the pet cat thinks. I refuse to believe that you're incapable of driving a car to test standard, and it seems that all this talking down has already impacted you as your posts read like you're full of doubt, concerns and seem to have already been talked down into getting an automatic license. I accept that's it's harder to pass these days, but I fall down the stairs at least once a fortnight and some wally gave me a driving license!

Tell me to shut up, but I'm willing to bet that you are far more capable at this than you've been led to believe and I find it upsetting to hear some of things you've said. We're all just a bunch of people that you don't know, with different skill sets and experiences to consider. Your parents love you and you should respect them for that, but ultimately it's your life, your license and your decision. Your driving instructor may be friendly, but it's an old fashioned business agreement, not an emotional one, and you are the customer with the choices.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

May I ask what spurred you to create the thread? You're a very intelligent grown man in your 20's who is just about to study for a Master's, yet you seem to care an awful lot about what others are thinking. Despite being an adult capable of making your own decisions, you seem very concerned about your parents opinions (which even extends to which car you end up purchasing?). Your driving instructor maybe the loveliest person in the world for all we know, yet a person who enters into a business agreement with you every time you enter the car basically told you early on that she thought you were nearly a lost cause, despite it being her job to ensure that that wasn't the case, and then contradicting those conversations by claiming that failing a first test would be a killer for your confidence? This all seems to have effected you so much that you wanted a third opinion from a group of people on the internet?

I could be wrong Matt, but it seems like you need more confidence in yourself. I mean, you're an incredibly intelligent person, great statistical mathematician who articulates themselves beautifully and you're well into adulthood. To hell what me, mum, dad, a driving instructor or the pet cat thinks. I refuse to believe that you're incapable of driving a car to test standard, and it seems that all this talking down has already impacted you as your posts read like you're full of doubt, concerns and seem to have already been talked down into getting an automatic license. I accept that's it's harder to pass these days, but I fall down the stairs at least once a fortnight and some wally gave me a driving license!

Tell me to shut up, but I'm willing to bet that you are far more capable at this than you've been led to believe and I find it upsetting to hear some of things you've said. We're all just a bunch of people that you don't know, with different skill sets and experiences to consider. Your parents love you and you should respect them for that, but ultimately it's your life, your license and your decision. Your driving instructor may be friendly, but it's an old fashioned business agreement, not an emotional one, and you are the customer with the choices.

This. All of this.

I know we're not supposed to normally reply to a thread, just to say that we agree without adding more, but I can't put anything more succinctly. @Matt.GC has hit the nail on the head beautifully and I, as a random goose on the internet, wanted to add whatever virtual weight I have behind it.