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Is it OK for a driving instructor to run errands during a driving lesson?

Is it OK for a driving instructor to run errands during a driving lesson?

  • Total voters
    53
Matt.GC said:
May I ask what spurred you to create the thread? You're a very intelligent grown man in your 20's who is just about to study for a Master's, yet you seem to care an awful lot about what others are thinking. Despite being an adult capable of making your own decisions, you seem very concerned about your parents opinions (which even extends to which car you end up purchasing?). Your driving instructor maybe the loveliest person in the world for all we know, yet a person who enters into a business agreement with you every time you enter the car basically told you early on that she thought you were nearly a lost cause, despite it being her job to ensure that that wasn't the case, and then contradicting those conversations by claiming that failing a first test would be a killer for your confidence? This all seems to have effected you so much that you wanted a third opinion from a group of people on the internet?

I could be wrong Matt, but it seems like you need more confidence in yourself. I mean, you're an incredibly intelligent person, great statistical mathematician who articulates themselves beautifully and you're well into adulthood. To hell what me, mum, dad, a driving instructor or the pet cat thinks. I refuse to believe that you're incapable of driving a car to test standard, and it seems that all this talking down has already impacted you as your posts read like you're full of doubt, concerns and seem to have already been talked down into getting an automatic license. I accept that's it's harder to pass these days, but I fall down the stairs at least once a fortnight and some wally gave me a driving license!

Tell me to shut up, but I'm willing to bet that you are far more capable at this than you've been led to believe and I find it upsetting to hear some of things you've said. We're all just a bunch of people that you don't know, with different skill sets and experiences to consider. Your parents love you and you should respect them for that, but ultimately it's your life, your license and your decision. Your driving instructor may be friendly, but it's an old fashioned business agreement, not an emotional one, and you are the customer with the choices.
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Beautifully put, I echo this sentiment entirely. As above, nothing more to add than you're way more talented and able than you give yourself credit for @Matt N .
 
Matt.GC said:
May I ask what spurred you to create the thread? You're a very intelligent grown man in your 20's who is just about to study for a Master's, yet you seem to care an awful lot about what others are thinking. Despite being an adult capable of making your own decisions, you seem very concerned about your parents opinions (which even extends to which car you end up purchasing?). Your driving instructor maybe the loveliest person in the world for all we know, yet a person who enters into a business agreement with you every time you enter the car basically told you early on that she thought you were nearly a lost cause, despite it being her job to ensure that that wasn't the case, and then contradicting those conversations by claiming that failing a first test would be a killer for your confidence? This all seems to have effected you so much that you wanted a third opinion from a group of people on the internet?

I could be wrong Matt, but it seems like you need more confidence in yourself. I mean, you're an incredibly intelligent person, great statistical mathematician who articulates themselves beautifully and you're well into adulthood. To hell what me, mum, dad, a driving instructor or the pet cat thinks. I refuse to believe that you're incapable of driving a car to test standard, and it seems that all this talking down has already impacted you as your posts read like you're full of doubt, concerns and seem to have already been talked down into getting an automatic license. I accept that's it's harder to pass these days, but I fall down the stairs at least once a fortnight and some wally gave me a driving license!

Tell me to shut up, but I'm willing to bet that you are far more capable at this than you've been led to believe and I find it upsetting to hear some of things you've said. We're all just a bunch of people that you don't know, with different skill sets and experiences to consider. Your parents love you and you should respect them for that, but ultimately it's your life, your license and your decision. Your driving instructor may be friendly, but it's an old fashioned business agreement, not an emotional one, and you are the customer with the choices.
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That’s a fair question. I guess I was just interested to hear people’s thoughts on the topic, and whether I had an uncommon take, seeing as me and my parents had wildly differing perspectives when we discussed it. The poll results would suggest that it is most certainly me who has the uncommon perspective!

Seeing as I go to university and still live in my parents’ house, I think it’s only fair that I give their opinions weight and give them a considerable say. Even excluding all of that, I love and respect my parents and care about their thoughts.

I appreciate the incredibly kind comments (both from yourself and others). I am certainly a person with high levels of self-doubt, and that seeps into a number of aspects of my life.

I would like to clarify, however, that I was not “talked down” into getting an automatic license; the decision for me to pursue automatic driving tuition was entirely mutual between me and my parents, as I was nervous about learning to drive and given my coordinational difficulties over the years, I had a feeling that manual driving might have been a bridge too far in terms of multi-tasking. Rightly or wrongly, I felt that going automatic would be a better choice for me and make driving more accessible for me, and my parents agreed. How I would have coped with a manual is anyone’s guess, but seeing as my first few weeks and months behind the wheel were as rocky as they were, I do feel somewhat vindicated in choosing automatic over manual and not adding gears into the mix.
 
Matt N said:
That’s a fair question. I guess I was just interested to hear people’s thoughts on the topic, and whether I had an uncommon take, seeing as me and my parents had wildly differing perspectives when we discussed it. The poll results would suggest that it is most certainly me who has the uncommon perspective!

Seeing as I go to university and still live in my parents’ house, I think it’s only fair that I give their opinions weight and give them a considerable say. Even excluding all of that, I love and respect my parents and care about their thoughts.

I appreciate the incredibly kind comments (both from yourself and others). I am certainly a person with high levels of self-doubt, and that seeps into a number of aspects of my life.

I would like to clarify, however, that I was not “talked down” into getting an automatic license; the decision for me to pursue automatic driving tuition was entirely mutual between me and my parents, as I was nervous about learning to drive and given my coordinational difficulties over the years, I had a feeling that manual driving might have been a bridge too far in terms of multi-tasking. Rightly or wrongly, I felt that going automatic would be a better choice for me and make driving more accessible for me, and my parents agreed. How I would have coped with a manual is anyone’s guess, but seeing as my first few weeks and months behind the wheel were as rocky as they were, I do feel somewhat vindicated in choosing automatic over manual and not adding gears into the mix.
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I cannot stand faffing about with the clutch and changing gears either, and that's not just because I'm a goose. If I could have pass my test in a manual, without ever leaving 3rd, I would. I can't, so automatic for me here too. I feel completely vindicated anyway, as electric cars are automatic, most new cars are automatic, you won't be able to buy a new car that isn't automatic soon enough. We both win. 🪿
 
I drive a manual as that’s how I learned to drive, but I don’t see any issue in driving an automatic. It’s whatever works best for you. As long as you can get from A to B safely who cares whether it’s manual, automatic, electric, or a Flintmobile.
 
I've driven/ridden/piloted enough random vehicles, you usually just forget after 5 mins if it's auto or manual, it just becomes habit
 
I don’t really know. I’ve obviously never driven a manual, but I feel like it would have added a whole new element of confusion for me. With how long it’s already taken me to grasp driving an automatic, I feel like learning manual could have been a recipe for disaster for me.

And even then, I’m still not entirely sure that I’ve actually fully grasped automatic driving yet. I had a lesson today, and even though she was positive and told me at the end that we’d had a good lesson overall, I didn’t think it went so well.

My road positioning on the country lanes was quite frequently off; she kept saying that I was drifting into the centre or cutting corners slightly. Rightly or wrongly, I often get a bit confused on those roads that don’t have any white lane markings on them; the types of roads I’m talking about in particular are the ones that are wider than a full-on country lane, but still not wide enough to comfortably accommodate two cars. My instructor says that I’m being stupid and just need to concentrate and remember to keep left, but for whatever reason, I do sometimes get a bit thrown when those white lane markers aren’t present and the road is a little bit narrower than a regular two-lane road.

I also had a few occasions where I hesitated or held back a bit too much. I am a somewhat cautious driver, and I get the impression that she sometimes gets a bit exasperated by this. There were quite a few occasions where she told me I needed to speed up and was going too slowly (mostly in lanes and side roads; I don’t have quite so much of a speed problem on fast roads, for some reason), and there was one occasion where I was perhaps 1 or 2 seconds too late in moving off after having to give priority to another vehicle and she clapped quite abruptly in my ear to try and get me to move more quickly. I definitely have a problem with hesitation, and I sometimes get the impression that it annoys my instructor; if I’m a second or two too late in pulling off from a junction or a set of traffic lights, she will often clap, click her fingers or shout a firm “Come on!” at me.

I don’t know… as much as my instructor said that the lesson went well overall, I sometimes seriously wonder if driving will ever come to me… some of these awful habits that I can’t quite seem to shake lead me to believe otherwise.
 
Matt N said:
I definitely have a problem with hesitation, and I sometimes get the impression that it annoys my instructor; if I’m a second or two too late in pulling off from a junction or a set of traffic lights, she will often clap, click her fingers or shout “Come on!” at me.
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Sorry but if my instructor did any of that I'd take my business elsewhere. Learning to drive is stressful enough without someone clicking their fingers and shouting at you.

I also passed in an automatic and I understand your view on how confusing driving a manual can be. I had an automatic only licence at first as I just couldn't get my head around clutch/gears and felt like I had to have 2 brains for it! but when I passed my test in a weird way I felt like I'd not fully completed it, like when you finish a game and you don't have 100%.

I had to go back and practice in my sisters manual until I got it, which was a lot easier after you've gotten all the other stuff out the way, So don't feel like it's something you can't accomplish at a later stage if you ever feel the need.
 
Do you drive your parents car with them supervising?

I take it for granted how easy it is to drive, but have you raised the things you don't think you have grasped with your instructor? Does the instructor give you advice on how to be more assertive at junctions or traffic lights?

How do you track your progress? How do you know that you are improving each lesson? Do you feel like you are making progress?

Lots of questions, but depending on how you answer them should help you make a decision about how to move forward. There is no harm with having a lesson with someone else. You have been with your current instructor for two years, and she might be so focused on certain things, she is missing other things, or overlooking something. Having that lesson with someone else might raise one or two things, which you can take back to your main instructor and work on.

I do this the same with Annabelle's golf, she has weekly lessons with her main instructor, and monthly lessons with a different pro just to get a different opinion on things.

No matter how bad you think you are at driving, there is a lot more people who are worse than you, and they have a licence.
 
Matt N said:
I also had a few occasions where I hesitated or held back a bit too much. I am a somewhat cautious driver, and I get the impression that she sometimes gets a bit exasperated by this. There were quite a few occasions where she told me I needed to speed up and was going too slowly (mostly in lanes and side roads; I don’t have quite so much of a speed problem on fast roads, for some reason), and there was one occasion where I was perhaps 1 or 2 seconds too late in moving off after having to give priority to another vehicle and she clapped quite abruptly in my ear to try and get me to move more quickly. I definitely have a problem with hesitation, and I sometimes get the impression that it annoys my instructor; if I’m a second or two too late in pulling off from a junction or a set of traffic lights, she will often clap, click her fingers or shout a firm “Come on!” at me.
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More red flags here I'm afraid for me. That sort of behaviour just isn't going to help you build confidence in order to become a less hesitant driver. I know you want to give her the benefit of the doubt, but I think sometimes you just have to recognise when a relationship isn't working.

I had a frankly terrible instructor in the lead up to my third test, which I took in a different city (not recommended) and which I failed. The worst thing about him was his complete inability to recognise how to instil confidence into a nervous driver. As I had come from another city with no ring road I'd never done a fast (70mph) dual carriageway or a sliproad and made it clear to him I was worried about this, so he threw me in at the deep end with absolutely no support and then criticised me for making a mess of it. He also ignored my request to practice roundabouts on the day of my test and had me doing 3-point turns which I wasn't concerned about. Guess what I failed on? I sacked him immediately after the failed test and found a new instructor who could not have been more different - very shrewd and patient and knew the right moments to gently push the learner to go beyond their comfort zone, realise their capabilities, and gain confidence. Sorry Matt, but I really think it sounds like you need a change.

As far as manuals/automatics go, I don't think it matters at all. In the not-too distant future all cars will be electric with no manual gearboxes so it will be a redundant skill. I do drive a manual and enjoy having that additional connection with the car, but it isn't for everyone.
 
Matt N said:
I also had a few occasions where I hesitated or held back a bit too much. I am a somewhat cautious driver, and I get the impression that she sometimes gets a bit exasperated by this. There were quite a few occasions where she told me I needed to speed up and was going too slowly (mostly in lanes and side roads; I don’t have quite so much of a speed problem on fast roads, for some reason), and there was one occasion where I was perhaps 1 or 2 seconds too late in moving off after having to give priority to another vehicle and she clapped quite abruptly in my ear to try and get me to move more quickly. I definitely have a problem with hesitation, and I sometimes get the impression that it annoys my instructor; if I’m a second or two too late in pulling off from a junction or a set of traffic lights, she will often clap, click her fingers or shout a firm “Come on!” at me.
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This sounds awful Matt, honestly.

You shouldn't accept being treated in this manner. On a human level it's really not OK, but even ignoring that base level awfulness what she's doing is an attack on your confidence - which is the exact opposite of what you are paying her to instill in you.

It's your life, but I can only repeat my advice which is that should ditch this charlatan and try a new one, preferably ASAP so you can get some tuition from a decent human being before your exam. You deserve better.
 
I'm not usually one to chip in on things like this, but Matt I really do think you should try and find a new instructor. A second opinion on your driving could be invaluable, and from what you have said here it does not sound like her methods are good approach to get the best out of you.
 
Yeah that's not right. You're not a confident driver and she's calling you stupid and clapping in your ear?!

Maybe audio record one of your lessons on the sly and play it back to your parents. They could make a decision for you.
 
Please Matt, just book at least a one off with someone else to get a second opinion.

I’ve held back commenting because I used be to be a driving instructor (many moons ago) and it’s so difficult to judge without seeing someone’s ability first hand. I am aware of how long it can take some people to develop the soft skills for driving such as decision making, coordination, anticipating others etc etc.

However from your last post it really seems she is setting too high a bar with her expectations. The driving test is about being a safe driver. You really learn to drive and hone your skills once you’ve passed.
Her expectations do seem a little high and the clapping/clicking fingers thing is a red flag. You should not be feeling that you are “exasperating” her. She needs to build your confidence.

Go get a second opinion.
 
Nothing you are saying Matt seems to be giving us any comfort about your situation. I realise the irony so I'm not telling you what to do, but nothing you have said points to anything other than a confidence issue. Which I think you should see as a good thing because tackle that and that alone and you are good to go.

I think being told what you should and shouldn't do will not help, even if I detect that's what you really want here. Because this is a situation where you need to decide based on the facts and all I'm reading so far is that you don't have the confidence to do that. But consider this:

Some of us are parents, and it sounds like you've struck gold with yours as they've raised a polite, caring and highly intelligent man who is clearly going places. My eldest reminds me a lot of you, a genius who I'm very proud of. But no matter how hairy and tall my kids get, if they lean on me for anything, my advice will always be through the lense of a middle aged guy who grew up in a different era and still sees them as babies cradled in my arms in the delivery room to be protected until my dying day. Even when they have kids of their own, I won't see them any differently. It's very easy for me to see my babies in trouble and jump in and tell them what to do, and I'm sure many of us in this thread are feeling the same way towards you right now as you're very well liked around these parts. But ultimately what I actually want is for my kids to respect me, take my opinions on board but make their own way in the world. And I'm sure your parents want the same for you.

I have to put my foot down here about all this talk of not being capable. That's utter nonsense being fed to you. Everything you've described so far seems to come from confidence. I bet you've got the theory, the rules of the road and the highway code nailed down. So it's just a matter of controlling the vehicle. That's confidence and practice and nothing else. Some people are naturally not good at driving, you may be one of them. I know I am. But I still passed eventually and bloody lucky that I don't have to take another test ever again! Even experienced drivers drive poorly, hesitate at junctions, drive at low speeds and have terrible road positioning when they're in certain emotional states. I'm willing to bet that in a different environment where you feel more comfortable and confident, you'd be absolutely fine.

All new drivers need practice, practice, practice. It's muscle memory. Take a test and fail? Who cares? I failed first time and would fail again tomorrow probably. Failure is a fact of life. Deal with it and keep going.

As for the instructor, well none of us know her, but I'm not on the autistic spectrum and not learning to drive but if someone clapped in my ear whilst driving I would slam the anchors on and get out of the car. I can understand being a bit firm to get you to pull out quicker or put your foot down a little. But clapping in someone's ear is not acceptable in any circumstances. You would be wise to remember that even if she is the nicest person in the world, this is a business agreement between two parties. You help her pay her mortgage, she provides you with driving tuition. You're easily replaceable to her, she's easily replaceable to you. You have choices of where to spend your money. When I binned off the bacon sandwich guy, I felt much better when I had a second opinion. I had a third and fourth as well as my mum and dad took me out (I terrified them) and it was an eye opener.

Everyone has different personalities, perspectives and intentions. Your parents want to keep you safe and happy. Your driving instructor wants to keep your business (and do her shopping whilst doing so apparently) so she can pay her bills. We all want you to have the confidence that seems to have been (disgracefully in my view) sapped out of you and tell you from our own experiences that there's absolutely no reason that you've presented to us so far as to why you shouldn't be able to nail this. You have the power and control Matt, it's your choice and your decision. You have the capacity to drive a car and a high amount of intelligence to be able to make your own conscious decisions. Whether it's your forum friends who patently have a great deal of affection for you, your parents who clearly love you or Shoppy McClapface, only you can put it all into a mixing bowl and decide what is right for you personally as it's you're license and no one else's.
 
Matt.GC said:
Even experienced drivers drive poorly, hesitate at junctions, drive at low speeds and have terrible road positioning when they're in certain emotional states.
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Just to elaborate on this with a real world example, I nearly crashed in to a pillar in a (horrible) multi-storey yesterday. I was feeling anxious, the car had been playing up (blowers had fused, and it was raining which was stressful) - but the mistake was all mine, not checking all-around when reverse parking and was hanging my vision too much down the side of the car with an adjacent parked car, neglecting the huge pillar until I was scarily close to it.

I passed my test in 2014 and I'm a good driver, but I'm also a human being and I (nearly) make mistakes sometimes - like many things in life driving is a constant process of gaining confidence, making mistakes and correcting your behaviour. There's a reason insurance is mandatory!
 
If your instructor is an ADI (which they should be if you’re paying them, if not then that raises even more major concerns), DVSA state that providing lessons for shorter than the agreed time, which I would argue this is, constitutes poor instructor service conduct.

Shouting at you while driving (stationary at a light is still driving) also, according to their own definition, constitutes poor instructor behavioural conduct.

This is according to https://www.gov.uk/complain-about-a-driving-instructor - I am not saying that you should complain, but I am saying that the information you’ve given in this thread indicates that they may be breaching DVSA instructor requirements, and I can say that they do treat this sort of thing very seriously, especially in relation to behavioural conduct.
 
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