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London Entertainment Resort: All Discussion
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QTXAdsy
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Black Hole
Loudoun was by far the better park and honesty a throw back of what Towers looked liked in those pre-Tussauds days but it just had terrible luck. The park was in a pretty remote location in which no one, not even the local population, were aware they had a theme park on their doorstep when the heard the place had closed which just shows you how awful marketing was for that park though this was in those days just before social media would make a difference in promoting places and might have helped Loudoun just enough to get the attention it needed. Honestly if I wasn't in theme park community I would never have heard about it in the first place which tell you again how it seemed more secret. Not helped that they didn't seem to have the money in which all their rides were either second of third hand which might have caused some snobby enthusiasts to look down on the place if not the Schwarzkopf looper in the mix though there was serious plans to get either Magnum Force or the Bullet from Flamingo Land when they both closed and send one of them to Scotland yet it seemed the price for them was too high yet it is quite crazy to think that if Loudoun had a little bit more money in the bank, we could have had not one but two Schwarzkopf loopers in the UK on the same park which would have gotten them the attention they needed. If only...
Plus there was that tragic incident in which a staff member died from falling from one ride which proved to be the moment that sent the park to doom and killed off the momentum they were actually starting to get in which the tragic thing was they were actually starting to get into theming in which they had planned for a wild west area by acquiring as much of the American Adventure theming and reuse for their needs and were looking up in which if all had gone well, they could have ended up by 2023 as being a Paulton's Park of the north as a solid mid tier park, hell, they were even planning to make wooden lodges nearby to give on site accommodation which showed that they did have ambitious just not the money sadly. It is a case of one bad event that made things go horribly wrong to a park that honesty deserved far better and their staff were honesty some of the nicest bunch of guys I've ever had to meet a theme park and I still feel bad about the place and of likely one of the better parks that the UK never got and that Scotland deserved.
Tim
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Air / Blue Fire
I mean, there is one way the London Resort could work if built near Scotland. Scrap all the IPs, just aquire Harry Potter. literally build Hogwarts castle and a high speed train line direct from King's Cross (that of course looks like a traditional old train when boarding).
Is it feasible? No. Would it attract millions of die hard Harry Potter fans from around the world? Absolutely. No crazier than all the AFOLs travelling around the world to the tiny village of Billund. Or the actual pilgrims going over to Mecca.
Apologies Rob, I know this probably still counts as off topic, but at this point what is on topic? It's not like any news makes any difference anymore.
Is it feasible? No. Would it attract millions of die hard Harry Potter fans from around the world? Absolutely. No crazier than all the AFOLs travelling around the world to the tiny village of Billund. Or the actual pilgrims going over to Mecca.
Apologies Rob, I know this probably still counts as off topic, but at this point what is on topic? It's not like any news makes any difference anymore.
Reopen the Stoke to leek railway line and extend the current line from Oakamoor sand sidings to Alton (or even denstone)
Extend the line at Cauldon Lowe to Peak Wildlife park and you have three incredible tourist attractions joined together, in CVR/Alton/Peak, in one the most unique tourism corridors in the world. All with a mainline connection at stoke.
The journey of boarding a steam train at a separate platform at Stoke Station (as planned) venturing deep into the Staffordshire moorlands, to arrive at Alton station, look up at the castle lit up on the hill, walk through the old coach gates (perhaps using the bridge building as an info centre) and enter the towers grounds past the flag tower could be one of the most incredible arrivals, anywhere.
Itās a shameful missed opportunity with so many multiplier benefits for the local area. Iād take that over London resort or a boat over bay lake, any day.
Tim
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Air / Blue Fire
Actually, there is some merit to the idea of joining local attractions together to make a Disney style resort.
When I was over in Billund the hotel I was staying at were giving out these maps that look very similar to what you might find at a Disney resort:
The key difference being that these attractions are all individual business. The top 4 are all within walking distance of each other, and the more remote ones are connected through external transport links.
What the above picture doesn't show is that the reverse side listed all the children friendly attractions at each of these locations and it came with a 'passport' that you could have stamped at each of the places you visisted'. Very Disney World like.
Clearly Merlin had some involvement in this as it's the LEGOLAND logo that's on the bottom of the maps, and it uses the familiar LEGOLAND map style. Which does make you wonder if a similar 'London Resort' could be possible with the 3 London parks plus any other west London attractions that want in.
It might be difficult because currently all the parks serve different markets and there's no direct routes between each that doesn't involve cutting through densely populated London suburbs. But as all 3 parks are currently broadening their markets its not out of the question as a 10 year plan.
However you could then argue that London doesn't need a Disney style resort, because London as a destination already is one. Another name for the West End theatres being 'Theatreland'. Not even mentioning all the Museums and Galleries etc.
What would the London Resort have actually added that isn't already available in London?
When I was over in Billund the hotel I was staying at were giving out these maps that look very similar to what you might find at a Disney resort:
The key difference being that these attractions are all individual business. The top 4 are all within walking distance of each other, and the more remote ones are connected through external transport links.
What the above picture doesn't show is that the reverse side listed all the children friendly attractions at each of these locations and it came with a 'passport' that you could have stamped at each of the places you visisted'. Very Disney World like.
Clearly Merlin had some involvement in this as it's the LEGOLAND logo that's on the bottom of the maps, and it uses the familiar LEGOLAND map style. Which does make you wonder if a similar 'London Resort' could be possible with the 3 London parks plus any other west London attractions that want in.
It might be difficult because currently all the parks serve different markets and there's no direct routes between each that doesn't involve cutting through densely populated London suburbs. But as all 3 parks are currently broadening their markets its not out of the question as a 10 year plan.
However you could then argue that London doesn't need a Disney style resort, because London as a destination already is one. Another name for the West End theatres being 'Theatreland'. Not even mentioning all the Museums and Galleries etc.
What would the London Resort have actually added that isn't already available in London?
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I know plenty of people who want to go to Alton Towers but have no way of getting there other than a train to Stoke and then buses or taxi. Just because currently 95% of visitors come by car doesn't mean that by opening up transportation options that would still be the case, especially given a large portion of the target audience for Towers don't own a car.
But it would still remain uneconomic.
And I'm not at all sure that "a large portion of the target audience for Towers don't own a car".
I would say the Towers target audience own cars, that's why the car parks are so big.
Non car owners tend to go in mates/other family members cars, those without mates/family with cars tend to go on coach trips...they still happen from all major towns in the school holidays.
And I'm not at all sure that "a large portion of the target audience for Towers don't own a car".
I would say the Towers target audience own cars, that's why the car parks are so big.
Non car owners tend to go in mates/other family members cars, those without mates/family with cars tend to go on coach trips...they still happen from all major towns in the school holidays.
Craig
TS Administrator
Psst, we have whole sub forums and topics dedicated to Alton Towers and potential alternative transport options. Itās a bit better than using a topic dedicated to a resort thatās never gonna happen in Kent .
Itās fine to refer to other parks as part of your own post if itās predominately about London Resort, but letās leave detailed discussion and posts about other parks to their own topics. Thanks!
.Itās fine to refer to other parks as part of your own post if itās predominately about London Resort, but letās leave detailed discussion and posts about other parks to their own topics. Thanks!
havaska
TS Member
I donāt think London needs a Disney style resort. Paris is just a train ride away and, as mentioned, weāve got the Merlin Parks and attractions as well as London itself. We donāt need a fake castle - we have real ones!
I do think there is merit in tying some of the attractions together. Like a London Pass that includes Merlin attractions and other places such as the Warner Bros Studio Tour. I do suspect we may see some ride attractions open there too now it seems Unviersalās exclusivity is gone.
It would be better to invest in what we have rather than build a new park.
I do think there is merit in tying some of the attractions together. Like a London Pass that includes Merlin attractions and other places such as the Warner Bros Studio Tour. I do suspect we may see some ride attractions open there too now it seems Unviersalās exclusivity is gone.
It would be better to invest in what we have rather than build a new park.
Benjsh
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Steel Vengeance
They don't make any financial sense though. You're taking at least a few billion for anything worthwhile and even that's on the low side.
Most estimates these days for something on the scale of Port Aventura for example would be 8-10bn with modern day labour costs.
You'd be better off just buying an already established park that has infrastructure in place and just giving it a massive facelift with new rides. Could even rebrand the whole place.
Could be achieved at the fraction of the cost of a new park too even though it essentially would be a new park really. That's the only chance we will get another player joining the game.
Somebody to go buy Pleasurewood Hills, Flamingo Land, Oakwood etc and spend a shed load of cash to make it an elite park.
The issue with all of those parks is that they're far away from anywhere that tourists go though. They're good for people living in the regions they represent but even with investment, would a park even with a name as big as Universal Studios, for example, draw numbers as well as DLP, PortAventura, Efteling, etc in Europe? They're all very close to major cities and easily accessible by train. They're there for people who are visiting a nearby city on holiday, without completely rerouting your trip in the same way that those examples would do.
Actually, that being said, York is a very popular tourist city and Flamingo Land is very easy to get to by bus from York, and has a lot of space to expand seemingly.
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QTXAdsy
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Black Hole
FTFY.
Tim
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Air / Blue Fire
From an enthusiasts perspective that reasoning makes sense. But it only works if the new park is mind-blowingly good and financially successful from day one.
Realistically one of the following is more likely to happen:
- The park opens and it's also mediocre. Merlin couldn't care less.
- The park opens and it good (but not great). Less people visit the existing parks, not enough people visit the new park to make it any more successful, investment drops across all parks.
- the park opens and it's great... But after the initial investment they are low on funds. Merlin sees the opportunity and buys them out. Their monopoly grows bigger and places like Paulton's take the biggest hit.
Jb85
TS Member
As has been said, the logical and best thing to happen would be significant investment in a current park. But then that could ruin individuality, say, if Universal took over Paultons (hypothetically of course)
the best scenario in my eyes is Merlin investment in their current parks. Not just rides, but maintenance, food and entertainment budgets need trebling at least.
the best scenario in my eyes is Merlin investment in their current parks. Not just rides, but maintenance, food and entertainment budgets need trebling at least.
AT86
TS Member
The best solution in my view for the UK market is to break up the monopoly that Merlin have.
There is no need (or even consumer demand) to build parks from scratch like the London Resort, spending billions and needing to attract over 10 million guests to get any return on investment. Time and money would be better spent investing in the parks that already exist.
In my opinion Merlin should never have been allowed to purchase Tussauds without having to sell off one of the south east parks as part of the deal.
The authorities have stepped in on many occasions in the past to break up companies who have too much control over a market, the one that comes to mind is the ownership of Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted, they once were part of the same group but now have three different owners as it was deemed they had too much control over the market in the south east.
Having the top 4 parks in the UK owned by the same group is the dominant issue for most of the problems we see in the market.
If that could be addressed it would go a long way to shaking things up and wouldnāt require the waste of time and money over 10 years about the London resort.
There is no need (or even consumer demand) to build parks from scratch like the London Resort, spending billions and needing to attract over 10 million guests to get any return on investment. Time and money would be better spent investing in the parks that already exist.
In my opinion Merlin should never have been allowed to purchase Tussauds without having to sell off one of the south east parks as part of the deal.
The authorities have stepped in on many occasions in the past to break up companies who have too much control over a market, the one that comes to mind is the ownership of Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted, they once were part of the same group but now have three different owners as it was deemed they had too much control over the market in the south east.
Having the top 4 parks in the UK owned by the same group is the dominant issue for most of the problems we see in the market.
If that could be addressed it would go a long way to shaking things up and wouldnāt require the waste of time and money over 10 years about the London resort.
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jon81uk
TS Member
But prior to the merger the only UK theme park they operated was Legoland, Merlin only had Dungeons and Sea life really. If anything it was Tussauds that dominated the UK theme parks anyway without the merger. Yes Legoland was competition but itās a different style of park compared to the others so people chose it over Chessington due to the Lego brand. Best would probably be if Lego wanted to take back direct control of the Legoland parks.