London Entertainment Resort: All Discussion

[Matt N]

i hardly doubt one group of people will make up to 5 billion quid appear out of thin air. Do they really think it’s a situation of if they build they will come?. Jaysus If they was that serious the land would of been brought years ago as of yet they still don’t own it. 50 million quid wasted on nothing, they keep putting stories out to drum up investment because no one is interested. Think to why no parks have been built in the uk for many many years. It’s the riskiest investment possible. That’s why as a betting man I’ll happy put my money on they will build houses or a big hotel and then it’s no risk investment, to splash 5 billion on a park then hope 10 million people turn up is crazy talk. Alton towers is the most popular park in the uk and that only gets 2 mil visitors a year.

There are a lot of surprisingly rich people in the Middle East; you’d be surprised how many big projects are paid for by similar Eastern groups!

I know that people won’t just come if they build something, as sadly the world doesn’t work like Planet Coaster, but I’m sure they have the necessary plans in place to try and attract the desired figure, like big marketing campaigns. It’s also worth noting that they want a percentage of visitors to be international, so not all of the desired 15 million guests will come from Britain. I must admit, though, some of the brands being proposed do seem very distinctly British for a park aiming for international appeal.

With regards to the project; my thinking is that if they knew it wasn’t going to happen, I think they would have cancelled it by now. The global pandemic and impending recession offers them a perfect opportunity to cancel, so I’m slightly mystified as to why they wouldn’t have taken that opportunity. To me, that proves that there is still some plan in place to get this thing off the ground.

 

[Mr Pearse]

I think in time people will see and realise the only parks that will built in the uk are the small low risk investment parks like Guilivers. To try and build a massive park and then hope people turn up is a very bad business like decision. Disneyland Paris gets 15odd million due to brand who is going to travel across Europe to ride the Eastenders dark ride?. Small low risk parks are all that will built in the uk for many years to come.

 

[KolonelKlink]

KEH have not stated how much they are putting into the actual theme park project directly.

And I can't imagine it would be much - given that Matt's beloved Kuwaiti backer, Abdulla Al-Humaidi (who bought the local football club, Ebbsfleet United) declined to pay players' wages for part of last year.

If he can't manage the finances of a fifth-division football club, why on Earth would any investor who hasn't suffered severe brain damage trust him with a fortune to build a multi-billion pound leisure resort?

 

[Matt N]

I think in time people will see and realise the only parks that will built in the uk are the small low risk investment parks like Guilivers. To try and build a massive park and then hope people turn up is a very bad business like decision. Disneyland Paris gets 15odd million due to brand who is going to travel across Europe to ride the Eastenders dark ride?. Small low risk parks are all that will built in the uk for many years to come.

If the London Resort does fail, then maybe a company like Universal might give it a try in the future? They have a good brand appeal, and no current parks in Europe. If they put a Harry Potter land in a British park like they have done in most of their other properties, then I think that would attract people from across Europe. Would also be quite fitting given that Harry Potter is a British IP!

There are also many other brands that Universal has acquired that could pull European guests, like Nintendo.

 

[Islander]

Matt, for the love of all that is good, can you not see that unlike any other debate on this forum, this conversation is literally you versus every other member on here? Do you not think it a little odd that not even one other person shares your enthusiasm regarding this non-project?

Do you honestly think so little of each and every one of us (a number of whom have those deep ‘industry connections’ that you admire) that you categorically must be travelling along the right path, where we are clearly not?

Your discussion here is, frankly, baffling.


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[KolonelKlink]

If the London Resort does fail, then maybe a company like Universal might give it a try in the future? They have a good brand appeal, and no current parks in Europe. If they put a Harry Potter land in a British park like they have done in most of their other properties, then I think that would attract people from across Europe.

Aside from the fact that Warner Brothers would probably block the use of the IP so as not to dilute business at the very lucrative Harry Potter studio tour in Leavesden...just no. Please stop.

 

[Mr Pearse]

I could be wrong but going back to what I said hasn’t Gulivers announced and built their new park in the same time frame that this shambles has been going on?. Just found out they announced it and built it within 5 years.

 

[Matt N]

Matt, for the love of all that is good, can you not see that unlike any other debate on this forum, this conversation is literally you versus every other member on here? Do you not think it a little odd that not even one other person shares your enthusiasm regarding this non-project?

Do you honestly think so little of each and every one of us (a number of whom have those deep ‘industry connections’ that you admire) that you categorically must be travelling along the right path, where we are clearly not?

Your discussion here is, frankly, baffling.


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I’m not trying to claim that I’m right or that I’m going along the right path, expecting everyone to agree with me! I know full well that I’m a pariah with regards to this project, and I’m not saying that I definitely think I’ll be right, because I admit I’m very rarely right! But I guess I’m just trying to be hopeful; I’d rather think that it is happening and that there’s still a chance as opposed to declaring it dead before I’ve even given it a chance to succeed under PY Gerbeau and his new team. I guess the recent positive news about this project is one of the things keeping me going when everything is so negative.

I just guess my point is that; I’d personally be very hesitant to call the project done for when the people behind it seem to be ploughing ahead at full speed still. I’m not saying that it’s definitely going to happen by any means, but I also think it’s too early to declare the project dead in the water. Things might have happened behind the scenes that we don’t know about.

Maybe it would be better for everyone if I just stopped commenting.

 

[KolonelKlink]

I’d rather think that it is happening and that there’s still a chance as opposed to declaring it dead before I’ve even given it a chance to succeed under PY Gerbeau and his new team.

The thing is I genuinely don't understand why you're so passionate for it to succeed - if you were PY's son and your family's income depended on his continued employment, I'd get it, but you're not (unless there's something we don't know).

I will, however, make you an entirely serious offer (unlike all of the London Resort's promises to date) - if this park gets built and opens in 2024, I will personally give you £202.40. You have the rest of the forum as witnesses, but I don't expect you'll be hassling me for the money in four years' time.

 

[Mr Pearse]

End of the day nothing wrong with being hopeful but when you follow this project since 2012 you’ll know it’s the same routine nothing has changed since 2012. As I said it’s a massive risk and unfortunately it will be too much of risk for many investors. Small parks are the only parks being built because they are low risk. The fact we have guilivers announcing a new park in 2015 and construction was complete by 2019 shows how easy it can be when it’s a low risk venture.

 

[Matt N]

The thing is I genuinely don't understand why you're so passionate for it to succeed - if you were PY's son and your family's income depended on his continued employment, I'd get it, but you're not (unless there's something we don't know).

I will, however, make you an entirely serious offer (unlike all of the London Resort's promises to date) - if this park gets built and opens in 2024, I will personally give you £202.40. You have the rest of the forum as witnesses, but I don't expect you'll be hassling me for the money in four years' time.

I’m definitely not related in any way to PY Gerbeau, don’t worry!

I’m passionate for the project to succeed because I want this country to have something that other countries look fondly upon and revere. It makes me so sad that Britain always seems to be considered the poor relation to the rest of the developed world among the enthusiast community, and even though I think that there is plenty of fantastic stuff in this country to rave about already, I get the impression that as usual, I’m a pariah in this regard. Very few enthusiasts seem to talk positively about the British park industry, and I’m hopeful that if London Resort comes to fruition, it will be something that will really catch the rest of the world’s eye.

 

[Craig]

I don't think there's a single person on here that wouldn't want a brand new large scale theme park or attraction in the UK.

However, that hope for a new theme park also must be grounded in reality, and that's where the issue lies. It's fine to have a passion for a project, but the reaction to your contributions is because they are endlessly positive and have a refusal to acknowledge the very real, numerous and increasing red flags surrounding it. For example, to pick a few:

• Is this project really going "full speed" when ultimately all that has been released is concept art and the promise of further information. We've already passed another promised deadline for submission of another EIA, never mind actual plans
• Should we really be referring to PY and his team as "new" when he moved onto the project back in July 2019?
• Should we really be referring to middle east investors as "surprisingly rich" when it has been pointed out multiple times that the man behind KEH can't even pay a lower league football club's wages?

So no, you don't need to stop commenting, just please look at this whole project objectively. Many people have taken time to point out numerous counter arguments to your points. For example, myself and Ian have pointed out in detail why this project is not officially "dead", but you haven't acknowledged this and still posted again saying you're mystified as to why it hasn't been cancelled.

You say 'something special' is coming if they're projecting 15 million visitors, yet it's been pointed out by multiple people (and industry bodies such as BALPPA) that such projections are unachievable and it's also been mentioned why they have been inflated so much.

Like I said, I and almost everyone else would absolutely love for this to happen, but please just stay grounded and look at the facts and very reasoned arguments being laid out. As Islander said, this forum like many others is absolutely filled with people who work or have worked in the industry, and many who have followed projects both large and small from start to finish (and failure!) for well over a decade. Read those contributions carefully and use them to form sensible conclusions as to the likelihood of this project progressing.

Passion for London Resort is great, but with every press release revealed from this almost decade old project, it's important that we don't just instantly praise it as a positive step. Look beyond the marketing bumpf, and try and identify any real, tangible progress that's actually happening - so far, that just hasn't been forthcoming.

 

[Matt N]

I don’t mean to sound like a broken record when I post these things by any means. I’m just trying to look for the positives, the signs that something really special could be happening in this country.

I think there’s still a definite chance that something could happen; while I admit that the project’s track record over the last 8 years has not been the most fantastic, and I do have my reservations as to whether such heavily British IPs (e.g. TV shows from BBC and ITV) will have the level of international appeal that they are hoping for, I’m a firm believer in forgiving past wrongs and giving second chances. This is PY Gerbeau’s first real attempt at trying to get this project off the ground, and since he came in, I’ve noticed a lot more momentum to the project than there had been for the few years prior. As such, I’m willing to put my trust in him and his team to pull the park off.

My reason for trusting their figures is because as someone who knows very little about business and economics, I’d assume that the experts the company has hired will know far more about it than I do! They will know the little details about how they want the business to work and function, and what they’re going to offer to get those crowds, whereas I, an average 16-year-old theme park enthusiast, know very little. The higher ups have far more knowledge than I do, no matter how enthusiastic I may be about theme parks!

I think the thing is; I’ve always tried to look for the good in what people do. Defend people and try and see a more positive way forward.

 

[Tim]

This all reminds me of when Th13teen was built.
There were some that expected that ride to be the greatest coaster imaginable. At the time we didn't know what Merlin was capable of and so it was easy to over think what they would do. The ride we got was what we should have expected, but it was easy to kid ourselves that with all the excitement there had to be more than what we were seeing.
This project is similar because it's easy to dream up whatever we want on that site. But that's all we have, a site with potential. I feel this is why it gets so much public attention because it's easy to say "This could be the UKs Disney or Universal". But we know parks like that don't just magically appear, any more than a mid-sized Theme Park in Staffordshire could overtake Disney.

 

[Islander]

This is PY Gerbeau’s first real attempt at trying to get this project off the ground, and since he came in, I’ve noticed a lot more momentum to the project than there had been for the few years prior. As such, I’m willing to put my trust in him and his team to pull the park off.

There's definitely no more momentum surrounding the project now than there ever has been, I'm afraid there you are categorically, irrefutably wrong (unless you're counting your own momentum...)

There's absolutely nothing wrong with looking for the positives - hell it's something that most members on this forum fail miserably at, and for you to be the complete opposite is a dynamic that to be honest is refreshing. However, in this thread, you are looking at the positives, and completely failing to acknowledge any of the multitude of huge negatives, and reasons why this project shouldn't be given the time of day. I guess it's just frustrating, your complete refusal to accept statements from people who really do know what they're talking about. And lots of them.

 

[Mr Pearse]

I think we all want an amazing park in the uk but everyone has tried and failed. It’s just not a viable risk for most people. This parks ideas of what a viable ips are just mental. What would tempt someone from Europe and beyond to a park with bbc ips that they probably never heard of. As I keep saying the future for the theme park industry is small low risk parks and then let them grow. You don’t just jump straight into the deep end and hope the numbers and figures match up. It’s easier to start off small then build up. But it takes years unfortunately.

 

[Matt N]

There's definitely no more momentum surrounding the project now than there ever has been, I'm afraid there you are categorically, irrefutably wrong (unless you're counting your own momentum...)

There's absolutely nothing wrong with looking for the positives - hell it's something that most members on this forum fail miserably at, and for you to be the complete opposite is a dynamic that to be honest is refreshing. However, in this thread, you are looking at the positives, and completely failing to acknowledge any of the multitude of huge negatives, and reasons why this project shouldn't be given the time of day. I guess it's just frustrating, your complete refusal to accept statements from people who really do know what they're talking about. And lots of them.

I’m not saying that there aren’t negatives with this project at all; there are certain elements that I am definitely sceptical about. For example, I think that some of the IPs they’ve chosen may have too much of a solely British appeal; I know that many BBC and ITV franchises have been made into international hits, but I’m not really sure if people will want to come from the continent to see rides themed to things I’ve heard thrown about like Coronation Street, for example. I also admit that the slow progress & turbulent management/financial situation does ring huge alarm bells on the face of it, as well as the almost widespread cynicism surrounding the project from industry experts & enthusiasts alike. As I said previously, I calculated that they won’t have invested the full £3.5bn until 2378 if they continue to progress at the current rate, by which point I will be dead and buried. At times, supporting the project does feel like supporting a football team that haven’t won a match in years.

However, the reason that I still support the project is because the people behind it clearly aren’t giving up. There is clear desire to provide something really special, and I think there’s been more momentum as of late (or at least, more stuff in the press that sounds promising when I read it). If you read up on the history of some of the figureheads behind the project, then they have a lot of industry experience. There is a source of money that they can rely on to provide the project, and they are slowly but surely securing the land required. As far as I’m concerned, the project’s previous failures are in the past, and every time they delay it, it’s a new opportunity to get it done; a clean slate. I put my full faith in the team to eventually pull this off.

 

[Mr Pearse]

I’ll only every become optimistic when they actually say they got full funding and they own the land until then it’s still someone’s fantasy. As I keep saying it’s far to ambitious and risky for would be investors.

 

[Craig]

OK I'm going to point out the below to clear up factual inaccuracies you've posted. Fair enough if you don't want to take on board what I and many others have said, but the below needs clearing up for others who may be reading the topic.

As I said previously, I calculated that they won’t have invested the full £3.5bn until 2378

One more time. There. Is. Not. £3.5bn. To. Spend. This is the claimed cost of the project if they get the investors on board. There is not billions to burn through by 2378, they need to attract this money on top of the money they're spending already.

more momentum as of late (or at least, more stuff in the press that sounds promising when I read it)

This goes back to what I said in my last post. Away from the promise of public consultation, what momentum have we seen away from the press regurgitating that press release? There is no physical thing I can see that indicates progress or an increase in momentum. If anything, momentum has slowed since all of the previous work done has been removed from the website.

There is a source of money that they can rely on to provide the project

See above. There is no source of money. KEH have not stated anywhere the amount of funds that they're putting in. What they have said if they'll withdraw what funding they are putting in if progress isn't made. KEH Sports is a related company that has failed to pay the wages of a lower league football club. Does that indicate a source of money, and especially one which can be relied upon?

they are slowly but surely securing the land required

As mentioned on another of my previous posts. They have only secured the potential purchase of some of the land. They have not bought it, nor have they abided by their commitment to buy it within the original timeframe, that timeframe has had to be extended multiple times. I can see no information publicly mentioning any further land has been secured recently, so again this goes back to there being no solid proof of momentum.

the project’s previous failures are in the past

They're not in the past when they keep saying the same things again with no tangible changes.

If you read up on the history of some of the figureheads behind the project, then they have a lot of industry experience

And likewise if you read up on the history of some of the other figureheads behind the project, i.e. KEH you'll see they have no industry experience and a worrying track record of being completely useless with money.

I think I've addressed all I can with you on this. It's clear that you want to blindly support this project no matter what. Yes you're being critical about the IP, but you're failing to acknowledge the numerous other points everyone else has made against more recent developments. Not giving up doesn't get you anywhere in business unless you're still actually progressing, and that's not been the case to date.

 

[Tom]

Ironically, the longer this goes on the more likely it is to happen. It's hard to put a number on how far away from zero chance it is moving, but the point stands. I do feel that if and when planning is approved, it will be an inch closer to reality.