• ℹ️ Heads up...

    This is a popular topic that is fast moving Guest - before posting, please ensure that you check out the first post in the topic for a quick reminder of guidelines, and importantly a summary of the known facts and information so far. Thanks.

M&D's: General Discussion

Rick said:
Found this in the vault, quite amusing.

TheCarousel_MDs_Flyer1998.jpg
Click to expand...

That poster does being back memories, and I remember as a kid thinking that they did have a Dragon Khan clone there, then again they were right saying it was unique and terrifying...
 
QTXAdsy said:
That poster does being back memories, and I remember as a kid thinking that they did have a Dragon Khan clone there, then again they were right saying it was unique and terrifying...
Click to expand...

I remember seeing this advert on a family trip to Scotland, and even as a clueless ten year old with limited internet access, I can safely say that I intuitively knew it was complete nonsense. Nonetheless, I did try and persuade my Dad to take me there, but he was less convinced than even I was. We probably saw some interesting history instead, so it was for the best.
 
Last edited:
It's always sad when a park goes into administration, especially one like M&D's that a devoted family has poured its heart and soul into for decades. However, as sad as I am to say it, I'm not overly surprised. The park seemed to really struggle after Tsunami derailed in 2016, and with Tornado being put up for sale recently, I guess the signs were there that the park's financial collapse was imminent.

Maybe a new company might take the park on once the pandemic is over and there's a little more certainty about the future? The site has quite a lot of potential and there's no real competition to speak of in Scotland, so maybe a new owner could come and reopen the park, build it up gradually and then put in something big to get the masses in, sort of like what Tayto Park did with Cu Chulainn?
 
Last edited:
Looking at the filed accounts for 2018 they did make an operating profit (albeit a small one) of £140,000. It was the costs of servicing their debt that pushed them into a loss.

Therefore some investor might see the potential that you could make it work and buy it out of administration. Probably not the best time for buying a theme park though, you would definitely have to be in it for the long haul.
 
Last edited:
AT86 said:
Looking at the filed accounts for 2018 they did make an operating profit (all albeit a small one) of £140,000. It was the costs of servicing their debt that pushed them into a loss.

Therefore some investor might see the potential that you could make it work and buy it out of administration. Probably not the best time for buying a theme park though, you would definitely have to be in it for the long haul.
Click to expand...
A family bought Indiana Beach recently after everyone thought that was done for, so it's not out of the question! If someone came along with a really good expansion plan that was done gradually over the next 5-10 years or so, I could see that doing really well! M&D's has some solid foundations; they have a nice-looking hotel, they're in a pretty good location within Scotland and the land it's on is quite flat and looks easy to develop for little cost, so I'd say that there's definitely a potential business venture in there once the worst of COVID-19 has passed.

As @Rick has said, it's only the company who owns the park that has gone into administration; the park itself has not been demolished. As long as the park is still standing, there's always a chance that it could be snapped up. It won't be worthwhile to demolish every theme park that suffers as a result of COVID-19, sell off the salvageable assets and build a housing estate there. I'm sure that quite a few of the parks that suffer as a result of this pandemic will eventually live on to give more fun days out under new ownership.
 
Last edited:
AT86 said:
Therefore some investor might see the potential that you could make it work and buy it out of administration.
Click to expand...

I doubt it - for a number of reasons:

1) Statements released by administrators when they're brought in often try to give at least some element of hope - e.g. the possible sale of assets or a push to continue discussions with parties that might be interested in buying the business. In this case, judging by the statement I posted on the last page, they're unequivocally downbeat, with no hint of a rescue in the offing. Remember, too, that for the most part, corporate types are consolidating at the moment, not expanding.

2) You still might say, "well, an entrepreneurial sort could come in, take on the assets for a nominal fee and try to make it work". But we're not talking about your standard rescue deal - you'd have to be a very brave investor or group of investors to rescue a failing leisure attraction in the midst of a global pandemic, with no idea when you might be able to re-open your only asset to the public and have money coming in again.

3) Attendance across the industry will certainly be down once theme parks finally open their gates again - either by force (limiting numbers of people on site at any one time) or fear (with members of the public choosing to go out less). As an investor, I'm thinking about a) the extra security/staff I'd have to have on site to enforce social distancing and the cost implications of that; b) the fact that not enough people were coming to M&D's before Covid-19 to make it a viable proposition; and c) the need to (quickly) invest heavily in the park to encourage lapsed visitors to come back.

It's one hell of a risk, and there are probably lots of businesses on the precipice at the moment that would be easier to turn round than this one.
 
With attendances low prior to this, it would take a hell of lot of work to turn it round it a short amount of time. If your are a potential investor you are looking up to 2 years to get higher visitor levels, that’s if it was seriously invested in but then there’s no guarantee you’ll get a return on the investment.
 
Given what I hear about M&D's it would be wiser for an invester to hold of on purchasing and leave the site vacant for a few years. Hope it's still available when the economy picks back up and redevelop it into a new attraction.
 
^ Agreed.

It's a pretty good site really, although not large by any stretch - there's some infrastructure there too with the large entrance, hotel next door etc. The location by the loch is great - although it's a shame it's pretty much hidden from the park.

Last time we were there we spent more time on golf thing at the front than on the rides - it's a great course.
 
Now that I think about it on what caused the park it's downfall, M&D's problems weren't caused by a lack of potential visitors, but a lack of execution. From pictures that you could see of it from the air, it looks like it never really had the cash to pull off more than being a permanent stop for a travelling fair (unless you believe these stories that the owners were hording cash or were utterly incompetent in general). If there is any landscaping at all apart from some trees being behind fences or if you want to split hairs, include the crazy golf course theming.

There is no appearance of effort, at least not visibly but it just gives them the appearance of lazy owners who got what was coming for them. You can't help but think what a million pounds' worth of polish and shine could have done to the place. One flat ride on a concrete foundation, with a queue line and operator's booth under a solid roof, a little kiosk on the side in a themed building, and bushes sprinkled around to give it some greenery. Not asking for Europa Park-level theming, but something like Paulton's theming efforts would probably have been surely attainable.

Who knows if the London Park never gets off the ground, they can use a fraction of the resources on M&D's and while this would make their ambitions less grander, it would however a hell of a lot more plausible for them to open a 'new' park.

Yes, given the location they had with the catchment area and the current size of park and potential to expand on the site they had, M&D's should've been a much better park and thus had they kept the park's image to look positive, it would have actually made the park more desirable for punters to visit.

When you think about, the lack of execution is not only this park's downfall, however it is perhaps the fault of many closed theme parks in the UK who didn't seem to know how to market properly and thus led to their end. Who would be up for the idea of the London Park guys saying 'screw it' with that they'll never get planning permission and try to gain a monopoly on Scotland by taking the M&D's site?
 
QTXAdsy said:
Now that I think about it on what caused the park it's downfall, M&D's problems weren't caused by a lack of potential visitors, but a lack of execution. From pictures that you could see of it from the air, it looks like it never really had the cash to pull off more than being a permanent stop for a travelling fair (unless you believe these stories that the owners were hording cash or were utterly incompetent in general). If there is any landscaping at all apart from some trees being behind fences or if you want to split hairs, include the crazy golf course theming.

There is no appearance of effort, at least not visibly but it just gives them the appearance of lazy owners who got what was coming for them. You can't help but think what a million pounds' worth of polish and shine could have done to the place. One flat ride on a concrete foundation, with a queue line and operator's booth under a solid roof, a little kiosk on the side in a themed building, and bushes sprinkled around to give it some greenery. Not asking for Europa Park-level theming, but something like Paulton's theming efforts would probably have been surely attainable.

Who knows if the London Park never gets off the ground, they can use a fraction of the resources on M&D's and while this would make their ambitions less grander, it would however a hell of a lot more plausible for them to open a 'new' park.

Yes, given the location they had with the catchment area and the current size of park and potential to expand on the site they had, M&D's should've been a much better park and thus had they kept the park's image to look positive, it would have actually made the park more desirable for punters to visit.

When you think about, the lack of execution is not only this park's downfall, however it is perhaps the fault of many closed theme parks in the UK who didn't seem to know how to market properly and thus led to their end. Who would be up for the idea of the London Park guys saying 'screw it' with that they'll never get planning permission and try to gain a monopoly on Scotland by taking the M&D's site?
Click to expand...
London Resort upping sticks to Scotland???
Never in a billion years!
 
" not asking for Europa Park-level theming, but something like Paulton's theming efforts would probably have been surely attainable."

I don't think you appreciate the cost of theming and upkeep. Most major theme parks dont have 'Paultons level of theming efforts'!! Enthusiasts must stop assuming little Paultons is comparable to places like M&Ds. It is a completey different level!
 
As I said before it would take a miracle to turn round m&ds now. Even if you had a wealthy investor would you really purchase a park and put money into it for the rest of 2020 with no possible returns. Even if you planned for the 2021 season you’d have to do a lot Of work to entice people back for next season. So on paper I doubt you’d be looking at turning any sort of profit till about 2-3 years down the line. I doubt anyone will have the patience to lose money and wait 3 years for a return.
 
You could open a 'new' park on the M&Ds site without too much trouble. The infrastructure will remain, at least in the short term. I had a couple of good days at the park, but it was what it was - a permanent fairground, or semi-permanent if you were being kind.

It's not the same as trying to reopen Camelot or Pleasure Island.
 
As if things couldn't get any worse for M&D's, staff fired from the park are now trying to claim back cash from the business through a legal bid: https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/5562881/mds-staff-legal-bid-money/

I feel the next few weeks and months will be difficult for both M&D's and the staff members who were sadly made redundant; how come the staff weren't furloughed under the government's scheme?
 
Matt N said:
As if things couldn't get any worse for M&D's, staff fired from the park are now trying to claim back cash from the business through a legal bid: https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/5562881/mds-staff-legal-bid-money/

I feel the next few weeks and months will be difficult for both M&D's and the staff members who were sadly made redundant; how come the staff weren't furloughed under the government's scheme?
Click to expand...

It says that they were not eligible for the Lockdown package due to their poor trading figures, then again I'm not really surprised that it has descended into a farce like this. Probably the worst run theme park in this country that seems more like a comedy of errors, still feel awful for the staff though as they deserve better after all this.

Oh, to be a fly on the wall seeing how the place is run and the current administration progress. Say what you like about other parks in this country, but M&D's failures as a run company will hopeful be used as a guide as how not to run a park.
 
Very interesting move, and one that could potentially work in their favour from the park’s perspective; they could really invest into it and develop it without any debt to pay off! However, I must admit that it’s one of the strangest things I’ve ever seen happen in the industry...

Good luck to the M&D’s family in restarting their business!

As far as the park staff go, I thought their redundancy packages had been paid and they’d been offered NHS jobs?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top