M&D's: General Discussion

[AT86]

Finance lenders and trade creditors take a very dim view of this kind of business practice.

So they may struggle to get some capital together for investments and to to get suppliers back on board on credit terms.

 

[Matt N]

How does this sort of thing work? I’m confused; surely if the same people own the company, then they’re burdened with the same debt?

Lochview Theme Park is a nice name, though; I hope it goes well for them! I think if they get some decent cash flow flowing in post-COVID, they could really make the park into something quite special!

 

[AT86]

How does this sort of thing work? I’m confused; surely if the same people own the company, then they’re burdened with the same debt?

The debt will have been owed by the original limited company which is now in administration.

 

[QTXAdsy]

Very interesting move, and one that could potentially work in their favour from the park’s perspective; they could really invest into it and develop it without any debt to pay off! However, I must admit that it’s one of the strangest things I’ve ever seen happen in the industry...

Good luck to the M&D’s family in restarting their business!

As far as the park staff go, I thought their redundancy packages had been paid and they’d been offered NHS jobs?

It is a very strange move as you say, being an asset bought of from M&D's Leisure, wonder how different they'll act to before. I highly doubt though given their track record in trying to invest, even if they would be starting debt free here. However it seems those running the new company were former directors and maybe are well aware of the infamy the park found itself which it's tacky and even dangerous reputation. If they are generally willing to actually go out and carry on to invest in the park in the long-term then good luck to them, who knows we might even see a Blue Fire clone up here!

 

[Matt N]

The debt will have been owed by the original limited company which is now in administration.

Ah right; thanks for the clarification @AT86!

It is a very strange move as you say, being an asset bought of from M&D's Leisure, wonder how different they'll act to before. I highly doubt though given their track record in trying to invest, even if they would be starting debt free here. However it seems those running the new company were former directors and maybe are well aware of the infamy the park found itself which it's tacky and even dangerous reputation. If they are generally willing to actually go out and carry on to invest in the park in the long-term then good luck to them, who knows we might even see a Blue Fire clone up here!

The new name might potentially be a means for them to try and wipe out their former reputation and make the park into something truly special. I’m not saying we’re going to see Magic Kingdom rebuilt in Scotland by any means, but maybe they could go down the Tayto Park route and start off small before putting in something really eye-catching as a springboard for expansion?

 

[AT86]

This is probably just a holding name for the new limited company, it doesn’t mean that the park will necessarily be called that.

 

[Mr Pearse]

I’m pretty sure if they was going to put effort in and make the park decent they would of done it by now. If they reopen I bet it will be run just like before. When I went last year it just seem so unloved and just needed proper work and tlc to make it look appealing and enjoyable.

 

[QTXAdsy]

The new name might potentially be a means for them to try and wipe out their former reputation and make the park into something truly special. I’m not saying we’re going to see Magic Kingdom rebuilt in Scotland by any means, but maybe they could go down the Tayto Park route and start off small before putting in something really eye-catching as a springboard for expansion?

Exactly, anyone can turn a leaf I suppose. As you said this is a golden chance to clear their name and actually go for it and really make the park into something good. Even if we got something along the lines of Flamingoland then I suspect most Scots would be happy as that would be better than before.

Suppose the benefit of having a lockdown at this moment is that if they really put their mind to it, they can plan out once they do reopen is how the park could go in something like a 5 to 10 year time scale that might appeal to potential investors and with there being a need to give the leisure and local tourist industry a major boost, especially in that area of Scotland, this might work in their favour to attract appeal.

This is probably just a holding name for the new limited company, it doesn’t mean that the park will necessarily be called that.

TBH, after everything that M&D's has become known over the years such as being a badly run park and the accident of more recent times that has built up for them, it would be foolish to go back on that name which they would find themselves back at square one. Having a new name would help wipe their hands clear, though that all being said given how foolish they were before, I won't hold my breath if they did decide to go back on the same name...

To get back on topic, if this new company also gets the hotel and the rest of the park then they would have somewhere to start from as I remember before closure is that were trying to sell off rides so they might do that here in order to get some money in. Going to be interesting to see what happens next...

 

[Matt N]

I mean, M&D's didn't necessarily look like a bad park before; it had a nice looking hotel, quite an expansive and unique coaster selection for a park of its size and a wide variety of things to do, so I'm sure the new owners could use the existing foundations as a springboard for major expansion, to give Scotland something to truly treasure among the UK theme park market!

 

[Mr Pearse]

Unless I read it wrong isn’t it going to be practically the same owners?. If it is then I’d stick to my point they didn’t do much before the accident few years back and haven’t done much since. End of the day if they want to reopen the park then fair enough but by god they will need some kind of amazing marketing scheme next season.

 

[rob666]

The owners shouldnt be allowed to walk away from their debts and reopen the park on the same site.
It wasn't a successful business under their management, is it likely anything will change?
Stinks of rip off for those who are owed money.

 

[John_P]

Pretty sure that sounds like a phoenix company so wouldn't be surprised if the government looked at that.

 

[D4n]

Anybody reading anything positive into this is utterly deluded.

It just further shows what utter sleaseballs the owners of the park are (and will continue to be).

They have no ambition for the park. If they did they would have done something to improve customer experience a long, long time ago.

 

[Ian]

I’ll be amazed if this is allowed to go much further. As others have said, this phoenix company approach sounds questionable at best.

Even without the potential for this to be halted if the challenge over the stewardship of the companies is upheld, I imagine any investors are going to be hesitant to put any money into something like this, especially given the current state of affairs. Without investors where is any capital to even attempt a rebrand, yet alone make any significant changes to the park going to appear from? The owners may turn around and say they’re putting more money into this new business, but to me that’s even more questionable still. If the money was there to reinvest, why wasn’t it done so sooner, rather than trying to run away from their finance obligations?..

Don’t expect to see any changes upon reopening.

 

[MattyH]

It's a common move in buisness and as any debts owed are owed by the former company than any legal procedings would need to start all over again to get money out of the current company and by the time they get to that point there is nothing as far as I know preventing them from doing the same thing all over again. It's a very sneaky tactic but a lot of companies have done it.

 

[Tim]

But doesn't this tacting rely on jumping straight back into business and making some money with the new company before officials step in. It's going to be months before they can reopen so all this new company can do is rack up further dept.

Not that I know much about this, I've only know Phoenix companies are a thing from watching Watchdogs.

 

[Mr Pearse]

If and big if they reopen next season I fully expect them to be closed again by the end of the season. It will take time, money and hard work to entice and get people back. They won’t bother doing anything they will just open like before and expect people to turn up.

 

[jmc]

This is a typically dodgy practice, and is massively disliked by financial institutions and insurers.

The directors still legally have to declare they were involved in a ltd company that went bust when asked by the above.

That aside, it’s pretty morally bankrupt as well.

 

[Matt N]

I think their intentions are to start up the Phoenix company once COVID-19 has blown over so as to minimise their debts.

 

[rob666]

Bad press in the daily record already.
Sorry, dont do links...
All as expected.
Shouldnt be allowed.
Bad debt.
Ex staff anger etc.