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Major Ride Closures 2016

RoyJess said:
I agree with that the removal of Hex is a real shock and a big mistake, this has got to be the best themed dark ride and it also relates to the history of the chain Oak.
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are they actually removing it from the park, not just closing it?
 
skyscraper said:
are they actually removing it from the park, not just closing it?
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Just a figure of speech not to be taken literally lol.. :p

Either way it's not great news for the 2016 season, unless they are re-theming it in-time for the new season. I'm sure there is some method in their madness with all this, as long as it is to do with some long term investment and not simply to save more money.
 
^ yeah, it's one of my favorite rides at the park- not pleased that it's closing!
it's on of the few rides that can't really be taken out, due to its size and design plus, what would fit in there if hex actually got removed?
 
Don't forget that it's just rumors at the moment. I hope that it's just that.

There are plenty of thing the park can potentially do with it from turning it into a store room or using it as part of one of the scarefest mazes. I personally can't see them re-theming it. The chain oak is a true legend and part of the towers history, to re-theme it or remove it (completely or SBNO) would be an injustice.
 
^from what's been said before, Hex is very likely going to be SBNO next season (it's one of the six rides destined to not open next season).
 
They could use the year to spruce up these closed rides. Give them a lick of paint, fix audio, video and other effects (maybe restore effects long gone from Hex?), generally get all of them back to looking new. Then in 2017 open the rides and put a marketing spin on it, advertise them as new/refreshed/updated for 2017.

Although when it comes to Charlie I'd rather see that remain closed, and instead of SW8 we get a new dark ride in that warehouse along with a rethemed Cloud Cuckoo Land, with some supporting flats and a new proper indoor show for ents.
 
James said:
They could use the year to spruce up these closed rides. Give them a lick of paint, fix audio, video and other effects (maybe restore effects long gone from Hex?), generally get all of them back to looking new. Then in 2017 open the rides and put a marketing spin on it, advertise them as new/refreshed/updated for 2017.

Although when it comes to Charlie I'd rather see that remain closed, and instead of SW8 we get a new dark ride in that warehouse along with a rethemed Cloud Cuckoo Land, with some supporting flats and a new proper indoor show for ents.
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to he honest, i think that's what they will do with the closed rides, and that might be why they're closing them in the first place. as for Charlie, i read somewhere that the license expires soon, so the ride will need re-theming.
 
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Jamie said:
But how will their reputation improve if they close rides and make further budget cuts?

I can understand the need to close Ripsaw, but it needs to be replaced as the flat ride lineup will be very sparse without it.
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In the short term, it will be very difficult to improve the reputation, but unfortunately - there is no going to be any silver bullet fix to the parks reputation or financial challenges and it will very much be a case of things will probably get worse before they get better.

It's simply a case of cutting costs now to ride out the storm, or keep ploughing on as if nothing's happened and spend the next 20 years paying back monday you have to borrow to make ends meet.
 
Did someone just finish an economics module?

In my opinion, cutting back to improve financials in an industry all about guest experience, just doesn't make any sense. Especially when the parent company have plenty of money available, including money made by Towers when it was covering Thorpe and Chessington's lacklustre performances, to cover any short-term shortfalls. Devastating the product before people have had a chance to forget last season is madness. Looking at their Facebook, not a great metric but the only one we have right now, their reputation doesn't seem to have suffered that much, except in the cases of trouble booking tickets.
 
I think the big fall out will come next year when that park opens and the general plebs public realize that most rides are shut and their value for money day out is ruined.
Hope towers will employ more staff to man the complaints department
 
Dar said:
Did someone just finish an economics module?

In my opinion, cutting back to improve financials in an industry all about guest experience, just doesn't make any sense. Especially when the parent company have plenty of money available, including money made by Towers when it was covering Thorpe and Chessington's lacklustre performances, to cover any short-term shortfalls. Devastating the product before people have had a chance to forget last season is madness. Looking at their Facebook, not a great metric but the only one we have right now, their reputation doesn't seem to have suffered that much, except in the cases of trouble booking tickets.
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Totally agree. In an industry that makes its money from providing escapist experiences you have to keep on investing.

On top of its decent coaster line up and stellar collection of flat rides, Thorpe is getting yet another dark ride next year. Will the money that's been made from AT invested in TP return to Towers in its time of need?
 
Dar said:
Especially when the parent company have plenty of money available, including money made by Towers when it was covering Thorpe and Chessington's lacklustre performances, to cover any short-term shortfalls.
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matthewgcole said:
On top of its decent coaster line up and stellar collection of flat rides, Thorpe is getting yet another dark ride next year. Will the money that's been made from AT invested in TP return to Towers in its time of need?
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You do both realise for a long period of time it was actually Thorpe Park that was the group cash cow? Alton Towers spent the first half of 2000's making losses in the millions and Thorpe Park has considerably better profit margins. The group will already be 'helping out' by absorbing the losses at Alton Towers in 2015 (probably around the £10million mark).

I don't think all of the closures are purely driven by the need to save money though and perhaps we are reading into this a little too much. Ripsaw has been on it's last legs for years now and was rumoured to be going this year long before the Smiler incident and the Flume is in desperate need of replacement. If it was purely cost driven, they'd have probably closed the Rapids over the Flume as it's more expensive to operate (electricity) and less popular than the Flume and who knows, 2017 may see the Flume site used for a new attraction if the coaster plans have been pushed back!
 
haydn! said:
You do both realise for a long period of time it was actually Thorpe Park that was the group cash cow? Alton Towers spent the first half of 2000's making losses in the millions and Thorpe Park has considerably better profit margins. The group will already be 'helping out' by absorbing the losses at Alton Towers in 2015 (probably around the £10million mark).

I don't think all of the closures are purely driven by the need to save money though and perhaps we are reading into this a little too much. Ripsaw has been on it's last legs for years now and was rumoured to be going this year long before the Smiler incident and the Flume is in desperate need of replacement. If it was purely cost driven, they'd have probably closed the Rapids over the Flume as it's more expensive to operate (electricity) and less popular than the Flume and who knows, 2017 may see the Flume site used for a new attraction if the coaster plans have been pushed back!
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Not sure where you're getting your intel from but Alton certainly wasn't making losses in the early 2000's. It's been a profitable park since the early 90's and even now with what's happening they aren't making losses. The cuts are to protect their profit margins, so that the park remains a profitable business. That's how it works.

The Rapids are less popular than The Flume? Rubbish. It's a much higher capacity ride, and just like Duel, the queue length is no measure of popularity.
 
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I hope they are renovating the existing rides, It doesn't cost as much as a new ride and gives people a reason to re-visit them again. Especially since rides like Hex are feeling repetitive, It would be nice to have a new themed and upgraded version to draw in the crowds again. Nemesis so desperately needs a revamp. At least get rid of the scaffolding in the dark cut down forest.
 
PeteB said:
Not sure where you're getting your intel from but Alton certainly wasn't making losses in the early 2000's. It's been a profitable park since the early 90's and even now with what's happening they aren't making losses. The cuts are to protect their profit margins, so that the park remains a profitable business. That's how it works.
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I'm getting my information from Companies House, where Alton Towers Resort Operations file their profit/loss statements between 2007-2012 (2013 onwards, they don't incorporate the full resort, only management of the Estate) and prior to 2007, it was a different trading company name.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/06127441/filing-history

For most years for the period covered, the bottom line was a loss of millions. The resort makes a significant operating profit every year, so in a sense yes it is profitable, but it had (until it's full financial merger into Merlin Theme Parks) significant liabilities in the form of loans and debts which eroded those profits every year.

Don't believe me? Make a cup of tea and read through the Accounts on the above link.

The Rapids may also be more popular than the Flume, it may not, but it will be operationally more costly to run. So my point that some of the decisions were not based purely on cost savings still stands.

Also, wasn't there some rumours that the park had signed a 2 ride deal with Intamin a few months back (not entirely sure our reliable Screamscape is these days)? For a wooden coaster and a water ride to replace the Flume. What's to say they've just not flipped the schedule and the water ride will come first in 2017.... but of course, the only acceptable answer around here is 'Merlin are just raping the place of cash doom and gloom'.
 
For that to work, you'd need to check against all the other companies in the group to compare how much they pay towards the group undertakings. For example, in the 2008 statement, they paid £9million worth of interest to merlin, with thorpe only paying £5million in the same period. Alton Towers made a loss because Merlin deemed them the most able to withstand it.

How would the rapids with 4 pumps and a turntable use more power than the flume with the turntable, lifts, pumps and animatronics?

The latest rumours were for an RMC in 2017, not sure what happened to the Intamin deal.
 
Dar said:
For that to work, you'd need to check against all the other companies in the group to compare how much they pay towards the group undertakings. For example, in the 2008 statement, they paid £9million worth of interest to merlin, with thorpe only paying £5million in the same period. Alton Towers made a loss because Merlin deemed them the most able to withstand it.
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Not quite as simple as that. Until they were merged financially in 2013, Merlin theme parks were all operated as individual/independent businesses so Alton Towers paid more in interested because they'd borrowed/owed more from Merlin/banks etc than Thorpe Park. Which isn't unreasonable, considering the amount of money invested in the resort over the years far outweighs any other single Merlin attraction.
 
I worked with Tech Services in closed season 14' going into 15' and The Flume was one of my main rides along with Rapids, Duel, Sub Terra, and Battle Galleons.

To cut a long story short The Flume was literally failing on a lot of health and safety issues. The supports in the wooded area needed reconcreating due to its age along with the second lift before the drop in the dark was all rotten. It was actually unsafe for staff to go and reset the ride due to rotted wood. We did change the floor to corrugated metal but this was only a temporary measure. During this season the rest was meant to be completed however it wouldn't have been benificial.

You also need to take into consideration how many boats were out of action due to age and the ones currently in service had seen better days to. It's been a long time coming and the majority of the truff needed refabricating aswell another big costly job.

Overall as I said it's time was coming, the system is old and to put the ride back together over closed season was ALOT of effort and time consuming when you compare it to modern day models.
 
Throughputs taken from the rides page here

Hex = 864pph
Flume = 1200pph
C&TCF = 1000pph
Ripsaw = 855pph
N:ST = 800pph
Driving School = 450pph

So that's 5169 pph capacity gone missing. Without counting defunct rides from previous not replaced, or indeed allowing for breakdowns etc.

Just in case:
The Smiler = 1000 (is that all?!) - but we all know this thing has "moments", and Galactica is bound to have lower TP and also issues unless they've been miraculously fixed.

That is a HUGE loss of capacity across the park split between family/thrill.

If anything breaks down on a busy day... oh dear.

Going to need a cattlepen for Guest Services.
 
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