Merlin Parks & Attractions: Quick Questions.

[AT86]

Are you able to elaborate more on this?

My understanding was that Thorpe Park was on something of spending spree from 2000 to 2012 due to all of the new rollercoasters and flat rides that were built after Tussauds bought the park, but was there a lull around 2006 ?

The coasters being installed during the later days of Tussauds were dialled down in various ways - to save cash.

Compare the likes of Spinball, Dragons Fury, Rita and Stealth to Nemesis, Vampire, Inferno etc that came before them and Swarm and Saw that came after.

The 2004-2007 Tussauds coasters were often the same ride type or cloned (Rita and Desert Race at Heide Park for example), they had little to no landscaping, outdoor or very basic open sided stations, little to no theming, no shops and often no bespoke theme tune - just pop music looped.

 

[Secret Weapon]

That's interesting; now that I think about it, maybe it's because Tussauds was about to merge with Merlin in 2007 and so the company was worried about making any major investments at the time?

I wasn't following the corporate side of the business all that closely at the time (and so I wasn't aware of any cost-cutting), but it would make sense!

 

[owenstreet7]

Are you able to elaborate more on this?

My understanding was that Thorpe Park was on something of spending spree from 2000 to 2012 due to all of the new rollercoasters and flat rides that were built after Tussauds bought the park, but was there a lull around 2006 ?

I'd definitely agree with AT86 that the park did slow down around 2004 onwards with investing.

The early 2000s after Tidal Wave was partly as a result of the Thorpe Park fire that happened in 2000 that resulted in the destruction of Wicked Witches Haunt.

Zodiac came in originally as a Retrosquad like addition to add additional capacity due to the loss of two rides that season.

Vortex, Detonator, Colossus, Nemesis Inferno, Quantum and Eclipse were likely to have been planned as a result of the fire and from the insurance money that came with it.

It slowed down from 2004 onwards. Samurai came from Chessington which was that season's addition.

2005 did result in Slammer and Rush which was a double deal with S&S. Rush replaced Eclipse which moved to Chessington as Peeking Heights. There was an urban legend from that a ride host mentioned a long time ago that they got Rush for free and are not allowed to remove Slammer without Rush (not sure if that's true or expired). Flying Fish went on hiatus for two seasons.

2006 was Stealth which I'd definitely wouldn't be surprised if it was based on Xcelerator.

2007 is Flying Fish's return which ended up in a different part of the park. It was originally located where part of Stealth and the Dodgems are now before 2005.

2008 was a new film in the 4D Cinema and 2009 was Saw the Ride. 2010 followed with Saw Alive.

In 2011, Thorpe Park acquired Storm Surge which operated at Cypress Gardens in Florida (now Legoland Florida).

2012 was the opening of the Swarm.

Forgot to add that the original Zodiac was replaced like for like by a newer enterprise which was Cyclone at Drayton Manor around 2005/6 as well.

From 2004 onwards, the park has definitely slowed down significantly with it's investments with multiple relocations of secondhand rides from both within Thorpe Park and other Merlin parks taking up the bulk of it's new ride investments other than Slammer/Rush and the coasters.

Any investments before then would've been as a result of the fire in 2000 either partly or entirely.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Any investments before then would've been as a result of the fire in 2000 either partly or entirely.

All of the investments you've listed were because The Tussaud's Group had purchased Thorpe Park in 1998, and had to get it up to scratch with the rest of their portfolio.

Tussaud's was purchased by Charterhouse in 2002, and then sold to DIC in 2005. DIC wanted to spin it off pretty quickly, so they slapped down some mediocre investments in their parks. The intention was to artificially increase the value for a future sale, which came in the form of the Blackstone buyout. Blackstone then merged Tussaud's with their other asset, Merlin Entertainments.

Dubai equity group buys Tussauds

An investment firm controlled by the government of Dubai has bought the Madame Tussauds waxworks museum and several theme parks for £800m.

www.theguardian.com

Merlin and Tussauds to Create World's Second Largest Visitor Attraction Group - Blackstone

Press releases, portfolio company news, and timely updates on our business.

www.blackstone.com

 

[Secret Weapon]

All of the investments you've listed were because The Tussaud's Group had purchased Thorpe Park in 1998, and had to get it up to scratch with the rest of their portfolio.

That's what I had assumed at the time as well.

Any investments before then would've been as a result of the fire in 2000 either partly or entirely.

It's fascinating to think how differently things might have been if not for the fire; John Wardley said in "Making Thorpe Park" that he was about to refurbish Wicked Witches Haunt until it burnt down, and was going to make it similar to the Haunted House at Alton Towers (e.g. so that the people in front would not ruin the surprise for the people behind).

Would Nemesis Inferno still have been built, but in a different location within the park?

I'm assuming that some of the 'temporary' flat rides may never have been built, as I get the feeling that Merlin don't particularly like them much anyway! (which is unfortunate, in my opinion, as I personally quite enjoy them)

 

[owenstreet7]

All of the investments you've listed were because The Tussaud's Group had purchased Thorpe Park in 1998, and had to get it up to scratch with the rest of their portfolio.

Tussaud's was purchased by Charterhouse in 2002, and then sold to DIC in 2005. DIC wanted to spin it off pretty quickly, so they slapped down some mediocre investments in their parks. The intention was to artificially increase the value for a future sale, which came in the form of the Blackstone buyout. Blackstone then merged Tussaud's with their other asset, Merlin Entertainments.

Dubai equity group buys Tussauds

An investment firm controlled by the government of Dubai has bought the Madame Tussauds waxworks museum and several theme parks for £800m.

www.theguardian.com

Merlin and Tussauds to Create World's Second Largest Visitor Attraction Group - Blackstone

Press releases, portfolio company news, and timely updates on our business.

www.blackstone.com

That's absolutely right as well, Tidal Wave was an investment that was a part of that drive.

I definitely think the fire still somewhat altered things from the original plans.

That's what I had assumed at the time as well.

It's fascinating to think how differently things might have been if not for the fire; John Wardley said in "Making Thorpe Park" that he was about to refurbish Wicked Witches Haunt until it burnt down, and was going to make it similar to the Haunted House at Alton Towers (e.g. so that the people in front would not ruin the surprise for the people behind).

Would Nemesis Inferno still have been built, but in a different location within the park?

I'm assuming that some of the 'temporary' flat rides may never have been built, as I get the feeling that Merlin don't particularly like them much anyway! (which is unfortunate, in my opinion, as I personally quite enjoy them)

It definitely would've been interesting to see a John Wardley refurbished Wicked Witches Haunt at the park

I'd say if the fire didn't happen, we wouldn't have seen Zodiac at all. We might have seen Vortex as that may have been planned beforehand.

There was alternative concepts on Attraction Source's website with alternative plans on Detonator to go where Model World was and being an S&S Shot and Drop Tower.

There was concepts for Colossus to be a B&M Sit Down similar to Incredible Hulk and for a coaster on the site of Nemesis Inferno to be a Vekoma/Premier Rides LIM launch coaster similar to Rock N Roller Coaster at Walt Disney World/Xpress at Walibi Holland.

There was likely a desire for another B&M invert at the time so I'd say we may have had Nemesis Inferno somewhere in the park or adapted to fit around Wicked Witches Haunt. It could've even been originally looked at for Chessington in the 90s.

Alternative Plans – Thorpe Park

Thorpe Park as we know it today could have been very different if the following plans came to fruition. Pirates 4D & Shoot the Chutes Ride - 1999 & 2000 These plans show an alternative version of Pirates 4D, featuring an entrance at the front of the building rather than the side, leading

www.attractionsource.com

I'm genuinely curious if some of the rides at Thorpe Park now were originally planned for Chessington before green belt restrictions made those plans impractical.

 

[Matt.GC]

Apologies if I have posted this in the wrong place, but I can’t find a “Quick Questions” thread for Thorpe Park specifically:-

Does anybody know why Stealth at Thorpe Park was built at 205 feet high rather than 236 feet?

If it had been made slightly taller then Thorpe Park could have taken the record for the tallest rollercoaster in the UK from Blackpool all the way back in 2006 instead of 2024; I assumed at the time that perhaps height restrictions imposed by Heathrow Airport had prevented them from building any higher, but the size of Hyperia in 2024 would suggest otherwise (unless the council is more relaxed now than they were at the time?).

I remember reading in the “Making Thorpe Park” book that John Wardley had wanted to build a hyper coaster around 2012 (instead of The Swarm), so was it the case that he had intended for this ride to take the height record instead, and thus didn’t want Stealth to steal its thunder ahead of time?

(This makes sense, although there was no guarantee that a hyper coaster would ever be approved or built, and thus Stealth may have been their only opportunity to build that high)

I can’t think of any other reason and so I would be curious to know if anybody has any other thoughts!

They only had to build it 214ft high to take the record anyway, not 236ft, because Big One is only 213ft tall. So they actually needed less than 9ft more.

 

[Bowser]

It is a good question. I remember being disappointed at the time that we were getting the half sized version of the Americans.

I still think UKs tallest would have had merit and realistically even then nobody in the UK was going to take the record from Merlin/Tussauds if they did.

 

[Secret Weapon]

I still think UKs tallest would have had merit

I agree - as evidenced by the fact that Hyperia is now proudly being marketed as the tallest ride in the country.

There was alternative concepts on Attraction Source's website with alternative plans

That is an interesting website; one alternative plan that they didn't mention was that - according to "Making Thorpe Park" - John Wardley had wanted to build a wooden rollercoaster instead of Saw in 2009, and had produced a few different ideas, including duelling LIM trains.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

They only had to build it 214ft high to take the record anyway, not 236ft, because Big One is only 213ft tall. So they actually needed less than 9ft more.

They would have had to build to at least 236ft, in order to stop Mandy from using "*her above sea level" small print claim.

What they did end up building was the UK's fastest and fastest accelerating (now the world's fastest accelerating). There's no real need to go for two records at once, you only need one to capture the imagination.

 

[Secret Weapon]

They would have had to build to at least 236ft, in order to stop Mandy from using "*her above sea level" small print claim.

Agreed!

What they did end up building was the UK's fastest and fastest accelerating (now the world's fastest accelerating). There's no real need to go for two records at once, you only need one to capture the imagination.

That's what I suspected (in my original question): they may have wanted Colossus to take the record for the most inversions, Stealth to grab attention due to its speed and acceleration, and another future rollercoaster to take the record for the height, instead of rolling everything into a single ride and thus only receiving one batch of PR instead of three.

The only minor caveat is that I remember reading (in "Making Thorpe Park", I think) that Thorpe Park had to make a special "one-off" request to the council in order to build Stealth so high, and so there was no guarantee that they'd ever be able to build that high (or higher) again - although John Wardley seemed fairly confident that he could have built a hyper coaster in 2012 (instead of The Swarm) and so maybe the Runymede council was fairly relaxed about it.

 

[Manchester1894]

Anyone know what getting out of Thorpe via taxi after park closure is like? Saw photos of car park looking horrific last night. We're leaving at closing Tuesday and need to get an Uber to Chessington. Am I better walking out of Thorpe to hail an Uber?