Monorail Refurbishment

[Matt.GC]

Merlin spending £40m (about 15 years worth of ride investments at current rate) on any kind of transport system from the car park to the entrance will never, ever, ever happen. Ever.

If we're lucky, we'll get a couple of smelly old buses, or a crappy land train like you get on the promenades of seaside towns that have fallen on hard times (except rather than passing tramps swigging cider, you'll be passing guests struggling with push chairs and tramping through mud instead). The majority of guests will be forced to walk like they have for the last few years.

They haven't "cared about guest experience" enough to do anything about it the last few years, so why should it be assumed that they'd suddenly have a change of heart and make their single biggest investment in their history to improve it now?

Whatever fantasical idea anyone can think of getting guests from A to B, unless it costs less than a couple of £million, there is no positive angle on this because it won't happen.

 

[GJMarshy]

Used to do that all the time in roller coaster tycoon

Air powered coaster was it?

 

[James]

Ripping out the existing trains and refurbing them sounds realistic. But then, are the trains the issue? The track? The entire system? It depends on what part of it is dying.

I know buses and land trains have been suggested. I suggest something cheaper that would align with Merlin's thinking. Offer no alternative transport system. The Towers Street entrance remains for all ambulant guests. Forbidden Valley becomes an entrance for non-ambulant guests. Maybe spend a little at the Forbidden Valley end to have an entrance building there.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

£5 million here:


From: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxYg4IRym6Q

Adjusted for inflation, £14,000,000.

 

[owenstreet7]

One simple solution however won't be a full solution could be a Park and Ride service to the park from somewhere like Uttoxeter.

I think it would ease pressure on the local area and also make the park more accessible to get to for more people.

 

[Slugjc]

In my tiny brain, that struggles a bit with financial side of running a theme park. I can see the monorail being an absolute headache for the current owners. The cost to keep it is growing, and the cost to bin it must be more than buying a new system, which is alonto expen. Plus the absolute pain in rear of getting parts at a decent price and at short availability time.

To me, looking into it. It was built to show off. £15million for something just to ship folk from a car park to an entrance. I'm sure they had big ideas of hotels even then. Still, a huge project just to move a family from their ford escort to towers street.

Typical of the Thatcher era. All show.

 

[BarryZola]

I believe the original plan back then was to have the monorail travel further to the likes of the modern day X-Sector etc. They drew up plans which I'm sure I've seen or have copies of somewhere. Just a bit of trivia

 

[Alastair]

There's not even been any major new-ride investment for close to 6 years now. The concept of tens of millions being pumped into on-park transportation is simply fantastical. Especially when people have no reason to even turn up!

 

[Matt.GC]

Ripping out the existing trains and refurbing them sounds realistic. But then, are the trains the issue? The track? The entire system? It depends on what part of it is dying.

I know buses and land trains have been suggested. I suggest something cheaper that would align with Merlin's thinking. Offer no alternative transport system. The Towers Street entrance remains for all ambulant guests. Forbidden Valley becomes an entrance for non-ambulant guests. Maybe spend a little at the Forbidden Valley end to have an entrance building there.

Or make the Forbidden Valley entrance the 'Fastrack' entrance for £20 extra per ticket.

 

[Slugjc]

I believe the original plan back then was to have the monorail travel further to the likes of the modern day X-Sector etc. They drew up plans which I'm sure I've seen or have copies of somewhere. Just a bit of trivia

I'm sure there was. Usually is with developments like this. When the bill for part 1 comes in, some air is sucked in through the teeth and head scratching starts. We shall keep the money.

Which is good because if that happened,would we have ever got oblivion and the smiler now?

 

[rob666]

Perhaps they should just scrap the monorail, and extend the skyride.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Perhaps they should just scrap the monorail, and extend the skyride.

Would need to be closed for further seasons to ensure the work can be carried out successfully. I'm not sure that you, or anyone here, could stomach that.

 

[ShadowTD]

You say 'extend' the skyride, but it would probably be a case of 'just build another over the shortest route'. The house of mouse decided this was the most cost-effective option rather than extend the monorail, and it seems to have worked out pretty well.
I'd propose having the 'car park' station pretty much on the site that the monorail maintenance bay is. This would be the maintenance bay for this as well. That way, it can be an almost straight line to the new Towers Street station, which would be wherever it's cheapest to build it (not necessarily where the current building is):
As cheap as it can possibly be, and potentially the existing Towers Street building can become a decently sized guest services or offices, thus freeing up both sides of Towers Street for some much-needed investment. The existing hotel station could be levelled or re-purposed into a shared venue for dining/entertainment for the residents.

I can dream!

 

[flyingguitar]

Ripping out the existing trains and refurbing them sounds realistic. But then, are the trains the issue? The track? The entire system? It depends on what part of it is dying.

I know buses and land trains have been suggested. I suggest something cheaper that would align with Merlin's thinking. Offer no alternative transport system. The Towers Street entrance remains for all ambulant guests. Forbidden Valley becomes an entrance for non-ambulant guests. Maybe spend a little at the Forbidden Valley end to have an entrance building there.

well, is there anything wrong with it?

all of this sounds like the monorail is on its last feet, but is it?

I agree that the trains could do with a refurb, but as far as I can tell the monorail doesn't experience much down time, even if it did I would expect it to be as a result of the trains as they contain the most parts that are likely to break (the track is just a hunk of metal, vs the gearing, motor, wheels etc of the trains that can break)

for context the walt Disney land monorail opened in 1959 and is still running just with newer trains

I think the main investments would be either new trains or refurbishment to the trains to improve the experience of riding them, then possibly refurbishing the station buildings.

 

[GJMarshy]

As much as the cynicism is very well placed govern Merlin’s recent track record of not doing a great deal maintenance wise, it’s a very risky strategy for them to play.

It’s common knowledge they’re playing it safe at the moment investment wise, until it becomes clear what effect the new Universal park has on the UK theme park landscape (if al follows through)

“Holding off” for now may make sense, but if the Universal park is built as planned, access to it will actually be better from all parts of the country bar the West Midlands. The rail connectivity and proximity to motorways (and London) will ensure it dominates the industry, and that’s before you consider the far superior IP offering and accommodation they’ll offer.

It’s already a pain in the rear to get to AT, heck it’s put me and many I know off from going there for years! It’s already in the middle of nowhere. To expect guests to make a 3km walking round-trip on top of walking around the park is adding insult to injury. It will 100% result in less return visits, especially if such a solution becomes “permanent”

Guests might put up with it now if the monorail breaks down or eyes are long etc as it’s “temporary”, but when the inevitable happens and the monorail closes (which it will given the parts are so difficult to source compared to WDW or other major systems) that’s dangerous territory for the reality to be in without a replacement in the pipeline.

If there’s one thing AT needs to do it’s improve access given its already remote location. If access *within* the park is poor (let alone getting to it) numbers will slide, especially when Universal opens.

The resort really needs to “go big or go home”. Either sell it when universal opens to an operator who can make the most out of the niche experience it offers (it’s setting), or Merlin need to invest big in access and ground-breaking attractions.

That doesn’t need to happen now, but definitely just before or after Universal opens ( which is looking very likely now) Plans need to be lit in place or the park will fall into obscurity and may even close as sad as that is to think about! It will happen if Merlin don’t at lest *try* and match the offering from universal.

It may well be time to sell the property to a new buyer given everything. There’s potential, it just needs to be realised!

 

[WillPS]

You say 'extend' the skyride, but it would probably be a case of 'just build another over the shortest route'. The house of mouse decided this was the most cost-effective option rather than extend the monorail, and it seems to have worked out pretty well.
I'd propose having the 'car park' station pretty much on the site that the monorail maintenance bay is. This would be the maintenance bay for this as well. That way, it can be an almost straight line to the new Towers Street station, which would be wherever it's cheapest to build it (not necessarily where the current building is):
As cheap as it can possibly be, and potentially the existing Towers Street building can become a decently sized guest services or offices, thus freeing up both sides of Towers Street for some much-needed investment. The existing hotel station could be levelled or re-purposed into a shared venue for dining/entertainment for the residents.

I can dream!

Literally no idea how much this sort of system would cost but it'd be epic.

 

[BarryZola]

The resort really needs to “go big or go home”. Either sell it when universal opens to an operator who can make the most out of the niche experience it offers (it’s setting), or Merlin need to invest big in access and ground-breaking attractions.

That doesn’t need to happen now, but definitely just before or after Universal opens ( which is looking very likely now) Plans need to be lit in place or the park will fall into obscurity and may even close as sad as that is to think about! It will happen if Merlin don’t at lest *try* and match the offering from universal.

It may well be time to sell the property to a new buyer given everything. There’s potential, it just needs to be realised!

It's a tricky one, because Merlin are actually leasing Alton Towers (the land) from Nick Leslau (or his business group), so Merlin don't actually own the place. I believe the lease might be for as long as 50 years currently. Even if they were to get free from the lease agreement somehow, what happens to the ride hardware etc? Would they have to sell it all to recoup some of their money? I won't pretend to know how that could all work.

But yes, I do realistically think that there could be a situation one day where Merlin are not able to make a profit from the theme park any more and they may look to remove it from their portfolio somehow. If this is how they struggle now, what happens when Universal comes along and takes market share?

 

[GJMarshy]

It's a tricky one, because Merlin are actually leasing Alton Towers (the land) from Nick Leslau (or his business group), so Merlin don't actually own the place. I believe the lease might be for as long as 50 years currently. Even if they were to get free from the lease agreement somehow, what happens to the ride hardware etc? Would they have to sell it all to recoup some of their money? I won't pretend to know how that could all work.

But yes, I do realistically think that there could be a situation one day where Merlin are not able to make a profit from the theme park any more and they may look to remove it from their portfolio somehow. If this is how they struggle now, what happens when Universal comes along and takes market share?

Yeah I think Merlin is treating the park as if it's on "borrowed time" right now. They may also just be playing things cautious until the picture becomes clearer. If we look at the most recent investments it paints a picture of their strategy:

Nemesis Reborn: Refurbish and re-marked an internationally well-regarded and iconic ride. It's a safe investment given the groundwork is done (quite literally!) and proof of concept that the ride already draws guest, and has continued to do so for decades.

Project Ocean: Again, a safe bet. Ripsaw (when operational) was highly successful as a flat ride, marketable to riders and onlookers. They're literally putting pretty much the same ride in the same place, clustering all their "high profile" assets together. FV has seen far more investment in upkeep & maintenance than other areas.

Hex: Again, iconic ride that uses the park's location to its advantage which constantly drew crowds. Investing here was a safe bet, again with the groundwork already in-place.

Project Horizon: News seems to have gone very quiet in recent months since the Universal resort became much more tangible. Might they be holding back on progressing PH (SW9) until Universal is complete? Or even mothball it altogether?

Merlin has very lucrative midway attractions, especially in Central London, and notably Thorpe Park has seen significant investments recently, far more than AT, with much more of a focus on upkeep and guest experience. May guess is because its a safer bet to invest in.

It has excellent transport links, isn't bound by the tree-line height rule (which makes delivering high-thrill coasters at AT very expensive) and has plenty of room for expansion. Even when/if Universal opens, Thorpe can easily carve a niche as the "thrill capital" of the UK with its large coasters, whilst Universal focus more on theming and immersion, essentially the family park/resort.

Chessington has the Zoo element which keeps it relevant, and catering to the young kids market is again fairly niche. It'll also be much moe affordable than universal for many young families.

Alton Towers though? Where does that sit post-universal? In the middle of bloody nowhere! In every sense!

This is why I think it's on borrowed time until the picture becomes clearer. To get back on-topic though, if it is ever to succeed alongside Universal, excellent transport links both to and within the park are essential. If it's to stay open & relevant post-universal, the Monorail, Skyride and road/rail access need drastically improving. Otherwise it's a bit of a lost cause I'm afraid!

 

[Poisson]

Not even sure how you'd fix the external road links. JCB will not destroy their internationally renowned golf course or their proving range to let a bypass come through.

 

[flyingguitar]

Not even sure how you'd fix the external road links. JCB will not destroy their internationally renowned golf course or their proving range to let a bypass come through.

That gets me thinking, their golf course really isn't in the way, neither really is their test center curently the red path is the drive up from the south, it is quite good up untill the roundabout where the red and blue likes split, as there is a narrow bridge crossing and then it becomes propper country roads, if they were to expand some roads and build a new one they could open a new access from the south which wouldn't require going through Alton (not sure on heights or nature reserve things but the blue line could be a possible link) could ease the pressure on the current main enterance road and allow coaches/busses to access much easier: