Monorail Refurbishment

[Mattie boy]

Said it so many times catching the monorail for the first time in the early 90s and being able to actually see out of it into the park was just incredible...whoever decided to wrap the windows should have been dismissed!!!

By all means tart the outsides up yet not what they did... they are probably too far gone now to survive a big refurbishment

 

[havaska]

IF they were to renovate / buy new monorail trains, what improvements would people like to see, for me my thinking it:

Air conditioning would be nice (Do the current ones have heaters?) but I struggle to think of where they could go, as space is quite tight inside the cabins behind the outside benches is the wheels, perhaps they could fit them bellow the middle seats maybe like the new under ground trains as above the cabin would probably make it more top heavy.

New benches, I think replacing the wooden benches would be nice, but I don't know about swapping them for cushioned as the freestyle drinks cups that I see very often will almost defiantly be spilled on them, perhaps some fiberglass design.

New lighting and windows to add more light into the cabins as they are pretty dim, and if done well they can make the cabins feel a lot larger than they are

new paint scheme inside, currently the whole interiour is just one colour, often quite dark I think making the place feel smaller and darker if they could make the top brighter colours to make it feel larger (for instance they could go for a 2 colour approach making the top half white, bottom half some primary colour (see new west midlands trains)

Exterior vinyl's I am not sure about this, I only remember the monorail with the vinyl's and I think there is a bit of charm, but I could see how changing the exterior could make them fit in much better with the rest of the branding of the park

Europa Park’s have air conditioning. Honestly, the smartest move Merlin could do would be to get Mack to help refurb the monorails as they’ve got a fair bit of experience doing that with their own identical system.

If the rumoured monorail extension at Europa Park happens then that’s even more expertise for Merlin to potentially tap in to.

 

[Poisson]

The EP ones afaik use the holes that the skylights are in the current vehicles at Towers

 

[Matt.GC]

I don't think that finding a company to provide new rolling stock, or refurbish the current stock is the problem. Neither do I believe they would have a problem finding a company to do any other works for it. As mentioned, I'm sure Alstom, Mack, Bombardier, Hitachi et al will engineer anything you like for a pile of cash.

The price will be the problem. This is a significant infrastructure project, and the investment in it would dwarf any other ride or attraction in the park.

I would argue that it is absolutely essential, and long-term plans should have been made for it years in advance. As we've seen elsewhere in the park, we know that no long-term planning exists, just firefighting with an available budget that isn't reflective of the needs. They couldn't replace a Spa plant, the last major investment opened 6 years ago, and it took them 2 years to reopen a Madhouse.

I can't see them spending a good 2 to 3 times as much as it would cost to build a new attraction keeping an existing one open under any circumstances. You could install 2 or 3 rollercoasters or a themed flat in every nook and cranny for that money. It's just not that kind of park anymore. It's aspirational days are firmly behind it, and this has been the case for the best part of 2 decades.

It's now Chessington-on-Trent with a few extra special bells and whistles attached. The UK's "Premier" theme park is actually just the best (arguably) of a mediocre bunch. The Monorail was built after some off-the-shelf rides dumped around an historic country estate proved successful, ahead of a decade of genuinely attempting to build a semi-premium theme park resort right here in the UK. There have been no such aspirations for the place in over 20 years.

Recently I've made a point of putting myself through the ordeal of queueing up the ramp at the beginning of the day, just to try and enjoy it while it lasts. There'll be plenty of time for walking and riding dull land trains when they close it eventually. It's truly special to watch the Monorail trundle along above the improved Nemesis monster, Gloomy Wood, and the Rapids. Hearing it above your head as you chomp on a magnum or queue up for a ride, or looking towards the ruins as you crawl past Towers Street, are all things that makes Alton Towers what it is, alongside Scarefest days where you can ride back and forth to your hotel room.

Enjoy this relic of a bygone era whilst it lasts, however long that may be.

 

[WillPS]

Press release directly from Alstom: https://www.alstom.com/press-releas...sador-egypt-visits-derby-built-cairo-monorail

Well, I stand corrected!

It's worth noting tho that was part of a $5.5bn project. I can't find a price for the stock element of that anywhere, but I imagine you're looking at several million per vehicle. Even if they do make 'em, and they can do compatibility with a fairly ancient system, the chance of Merlin paying that kind of money is basically nil.

 

[BarryZola]

It does genuinely make you wonder what they've got planned for when the monorail stops running. They can't just expect everyone to walk to the entrance forever. They'd probably get away with it for a season at best, but what then? They have got a plan, right?

 

[James]

They have a plan. Wait for it to break down completely, then keep it closed for ‘essential maintenance’. That's the plan.

Unfortunately, unlike the Skyride, I doubt Bianca or any other resort director can magic money up for this one.

 

[GJMarshy]

It is sad to see it in seemingly un-checked decline, but I'd like to add a bit of hope to the discussion!

I'm going to start by cutting buses and land-trains from there equation. They'd do the job okay, but they'd really ruin the immersion, which if Merlin/Towers truly care about, they should take seriously. I'll also rule out moving the entrance, as FB is a terrible place to have a park entrance, and you wouldn't get the view of the namesake gothic mansion, lake & lawns that make the park so iconic.

(For the record I'm coming at this from someone who's done a fair bit of work in the transport sector recently, so whilst it's different from the theme park industry, there is overlap which may be of use!)

So, what can you do?

1. Keep the alignment. That's to say the route or "right of way" itself from the car park to the park entrance.
2. Remove the monorail tracks & supporting beams. This is to make way for the optimal replacement, which won't be a monorail system.
3. Use the former alignment to install an Innova Automated People Mover (Alstom). This would be a point-point single-track system with a central passing loop.

Why? Well, monorails aren't typically manufactured to be narrow-profile vehicles like the old days (Von Roll etc), they tend to have much larger tracks & larger loading-gauges (width+height of the vehicle) This would mean if you were to replace it with a modern monorail system the entire route would need re-profiling, requiring demolitions of some of our favourite attractions and shops. So not going to happen!

But, an automated people mover? That actually would work a treat. You'd effectively replace the twin-track monorail route with a single-track people mover track (which is almost as wide as the current 2 track set-up, but fits neatly into the alignment)

The alignment very conveniently already has a roughly 130m stretch slap bang in the middle where it could be widened to create a passing loop, thereby allowing 2 trains to operate simultaneously. This is between Sub-terra & The Haunted House. You'd remove the existing loops at either end and have it simply enter the stations "head-on" as it were, before reversing back out.

Innova People Movers (3 car variant) have a capacity of 200 passengers. They manage this by being significantly more spacious than the existing monorails thanks to the wider loading gauge and lack of driver cabins.



The route is roughly 1.3km long. The trains can operate at 30-40kph, which assuming a slightly lower average speed, would do the full trip in 2-2.5mins. Assuming 2min dwell times in each station (no separate cabins so boarding is much speedier), each train could make 8-10 trips per hour.

Doing some calculations for throughput on that basis, you get:

4000 passengers per hour

That's not too shabby at all for a system running just 2 trains. It's 800pph less than the old monorail (when it actually operated at full capacity) but it's far more capacity than the system has been operating at in recent years. It's also far more than the capacity of running land-trains.

Cost wise (estimates based on existing installations with inflation)

£5.8m–6.7m per 3-car train
£10m–20m for the guideway itself.
£4m–8m per station for upgrades. (accessibility improvements, building alterations & PSDs)
£2.5m–5m for automation & power supply costs.
£500k for theming (custom painted trains + new signage)

Total Up-Front Costs:
£32.6m to £54.9m

Annual Operating costs (Energy, staffing, maintenance, insurance, miscellaneous):
£1.2mm-£2m (not including closed season)

Assuming Merlin manage their contracts properly (unlike the UK government) it should be possible to keep costs down to a level no higher than £40m.

This is basically two and a bit Hyperias, so not out of the realms of affordability. Yes you wouldn't see the return on investment as quickly as you would with a new coaster, but you wouldn't have much of a park at all without a new system, so it's necessary to ensure long-term growth.

By my reckoning this is the best option for the park & for Merlin if it wants to retain the park as its premier UK attraction!

Marshy.

 

[WillPS]

It is sad to see it in seemingly un-checked decline, but I'd like to add a bit of hope to the discussion!

I'm going to start by cutting buses and land-trains from there equation. They'd do the job okay, but they'd really ruin the immersion, which if Merlin/Towers truly care about, they should take seriously. I'll also rule out moving the entrance, as FB is a terrible place to have a park entrance, and you wouldn't get the view of the namesake gothic mansion, lake & lawns that make the park so iconic.

(For the record I'm coming at this from someone who's done a fair bit of work in the transport sector recently, so whilst it's different from the theme park industry, there is overlap which may be of use!)

So, what can you do?

1. Keep the alignment. That's to say the route or "right of way" itself from the car park to the park entrance.
2. Remove the monorail tracks & supporting beams. This is to make way for the optimal replacement, which won't be a monorail system.
3. Use the former alignment to install an Innova Automated People Mover (Alstom). This would be a point-point single-track system with a central passing loop.

Why? Well, monorails aren't typically manufactured to be narrow-profile vehicles like the old days (Von Roll etc), they tend to have much larger tracks & larger loading-gauges (width+height of the vehicle) This would mean if you were to replace it with a modern monorail system the entire route would need re-profiling, requiring demolitions of some of our favourite attractions and shops. So not going to happen!

But, an automated people mover? That actually would work a treat. You'd effectively replace the twin-track monorail route with a single-track people mover track (which is almost as wide as the current 2 track set-up, but fits neatly into the alignment)

The alignment very conveniently already has a roughly 130m stretch slap bang in the middle where it could be widened to create a passing loop, thereby allowing 2 trains to operate simultaneously. This is between Sub-terra & The Haunted House. You'd remove the existing loops at either end and have it simply enter the stations "head-on" as it were, before reversing back out.

Innova People Movers (3 car variant) have a capacity of 200 passengers. They manage this by being significantly more spacious than the existing monorails thanks to the wider loading gauge and lack of driver cabins.



The route is roughly 1.3km long. The trains can operate at 30-40kph, which assuming a slightly lower average speed, would do the full trip in 2-2.5mins. Assuming 2min dwell times in each station (no separate cabins so boarding is much speedier), each train could make 8-10 trips per hour.

Doing some calculations for throughput on that basis, you get:

4000 passengers per hour

That's not too shabby at all for a system running just 2 trains. It's 800pph less than the old monorail (when it actually operated at full capacity) but it's far more capacity than the system has been operating at in recent years. It's also far more than the capacity of running land-trains.

Cost wise (estimates based on existing installations with inflation)

£5.8m–6.7m per 3-car train
£10m–20m for the guideway itself.
£4m–8m per station for upgrades. (accessibility improvements, building alterations & PSDs)
£2.5m–5m for automation & power supply costs.
£500k for theming (custom painted trains + new signage)

Total Up-Front Costs:
£32.6m to £54.9m

Annual Operating costs (Energy, staffing, maintenance, insurance, miscellaneous):
£1.2mm-£2m (not including closed season)

Assuming Merlin manage their contracts properly (unlike the UK government) it should be possible to keep costs down to a level no higher than £40m.

This is basically two and a bit Hyperias, so not out of the realms of affordability. Yes you wouldn't see the return on investment as quickly as you would with a new coaster, but you wouldn't have much of a park at all without a new system, so it's necessary to ensure long-term growth.

By my reckoning this is the best option for the park & for Merlin if it wants to retain the park as its premier UK attraction!

Marshy.

Nice solution. Not a chance Merlin will spend £40m on this.

 

[Kraken27]

GJMarshy's comments above, whilst very detailed, will just never happen. No way would Merlin sanction this sort of CAPEX when the Marketing team could get exactly zero out of it to the general public. "Come and ride our new monorail replacement" is not exactly going to get the punters remotely interested. Whereas a new "world record breaking ride" - such as one with 14 inversions will.

Back when I worked at Towers - some 20yrs ago - it was well known amongst staff that the monorail was on borrowed time back then. Sticking plasters have been attached to keep it running, in sorts. I think the final nail in it's coffin will be the H&S issues in the stations (i.e. no airgates / low throughputs). Merlin cannot afford any idiot falling off a station platform, for reasons obvious (even though I don't think this has ever happened on the monorail).

 

[GJMarshy]

Nice solution. Not a chance Merlin will spend £40m on this.

What they'd save in staffing costs for busses would be a substantial saving.

You'd need at least 9 buses running continuously back and forth to achieve the same 4000pph throughput. That's a lot of drivers, fuel & staff management costs to pay for every single day the park is open!

 

[WillPS]

What they'd save in staffing costs for busses would be a substantial saving.

You'd need at least 9 buses running continuously back and forth to achieve the same 4000pph throughput. That's a lot of drivers, fuel & staff management costs to pay for every single day the park is open!

They would never do that tho, they'd do 1 or 2 on busy days and either encourage guests to just walk it or charge a fare.

On that note I'm surprised they've never considered allowing morning access through the FV entrance for a fee, a kind of premium economy entrance option.

 

[BarryZola]

If Merlin don't want to spend that kind of money on a replacement monorail/people mover, there aren't really any ideal solutions that I can see. You'd be in the realms of far from ideal multi-pronged approaches which have obvious drawbacks, or make them potentially not even possible. Like for example, having 3 different entrances of varying sizes. The current main entrance with some parking nearby, then two additional (relatively cheap) entrances. One expanded entrance near the current hotel guest entrance in FV just to even the crowds out a bit before entering, then a new one between The Curse and the top end of Nemesis (this way guests could go right to Katanga, straight down Haunted Hollow towards Mutiny Bay or left to FV). Not ideal because you'd get a load of people trying to come into the park from one side where the biggest car parks are, and you'd have to do a little bit of tree clearance. You'd probably have to limit the FV entrance to Hotel guests and maybe Platinum/Gold pass members or something, then everyone else chooses between main entrance or new Curse entrance. Then maybe have a couple of buses ferrying people from the bottom of the main car park to the main entrance to take a bit of the strain that way. Traffic considerations with people trying to get to the Curse entrance would have to be kept in mind too. So many pitfalls with this kind of thing, but if Merlin aren't going to shell out £50-£100 million in one go to keep something like the monorail going, then what?

 

[GJMarshy]

If Merlin don't want to spend that kind of money on a replacement monorail/people mover, there aren't really any ideal solutions that I can see. You'd be in the realms of far from ideal multi-pronged approaches which have obvious drawbacks, or make them potentially not even possible. Like for example, having 3 different entrances of varying sizes. The current main entrance with some parking nearby, then two additional (relatively cheap) entrances. One expanded entrance near the current hotel guest entrance in FV just to even the crowds out a bit before entering, then a new one between The Curse and the top end of Nemesis (this way guests could go right to Katanga, straight down Haunted Hollow towards Mutiny Bay or left to FV). Not ideal because you'd get a load of people trying to come into the park from one side where the biggest car parks are, and you'd have to do a little bit of tree clearance. You'd probably have to limit the FV entrance to Hotel guests and maybe Platinum/Gold pass members or something, then everyone else chooses between main entrance or new Curse entrance. Then maybe have a couple of buses ferrying people from the bottom of the main car park to the main entrance to take a bit of the strain that way. Traffic considerations with people trying to get to the Curse entrance would have to be kept in mind too. So many pitfalls with this kind of thing, but if Merlin aren't going to shell out £50-£100 million in one go to keep something like the monorail going, then what?

I wouldn't be concerned about it costing even close to £100m! You'd do it for £40m.
You're bang on though, there aren't any other credible long-term solutions.

-You run buses: Ups the long-term operational costs significantly & dampen the guest experience,

-You move the entrance to one of the proposed locations: Not going to be cheap in infrastructure cost, and disrupts the flow of guests through the park as well as losing the most iconic thing AT has going for it: the view. literally in the logo!

-You charge people for transport or priority rear gate access: Results in poor guest experience, negative reviews and less time in the park spending money, more time walking into/out of it through a car park & access road.

In terms of marketing a replacement (a valid point!) you could at a relatively small cost extend the system to have indoor connections to either SLH, ATH or even both! Then you can increase hotel prices on the basis of door-door park entry (without funnelling them through the rear gates into FV)

Personally I still think from a long-term perspective, the reduction in staffing costs would be significant by way of automation. You'd also be getting people into the park much quicker & staying there longer spending money.

 

[Poisson]

Another option: Restomod the existing stock. I bet they're physically repairable and gut the electrics and start again. Easier, cheaper.

 

[John]

At this point I'd be more surprised if the monorail opened next season than if it didn't

 

[flyingguitar]

I think you are over estimating the cost of new trains for the monorail, considering they spent (adjusted for inflation from earlier in this conversation) £40 mill on the whole system (although they did apparently get a deal on the trains.), most of I think that cost would have been on track and infrastructure,

this is because it looks like it is built similar to rollercoasters, this is because most curves are required to be made peace by peace similar to how rollercoaster is made (although there is a lot of straight track, but it is much longer than a rollercoaster), as it looks like each part would have had to be bent, then assembled (Vs train track which is essentially extruded like playdough (The process is different, but I am simplifying) into straight lines, and on sight they can be bent.) this would dramatically increase the cost, in addition the infrastructure set up (multiple power transformers along the route).

lets say it is £2mill per train, for 5 trains it would cost £10mil this is significantly less than the £40mil,lets say some of the track/infrastructure needs updated up to £10 mil and it would be around half the £40mil figures people are suggesting.

Another option: Restomod the existing stock. I bet they're physically repairable and gut the electrics and start again. Easier, cheaper.

This is also a really good option, at Europa they have air-conditioning retrofitted, I wouldn't be too surprised if mack wanted to update the mechanics and electronics of the ride.

 

[GJMarshy]

How about we build the world's fastest rollercoaster. Launch people from 0-160mph in huge rollercoaster trains, whack a speed-hill in the middle for some airtime & slam on the brakes in time for bed at the Cbeebies Land Hotel?

 

[Jb85]

How about we build the world's fastest rollercoaster. Launch people from 0-160mph in huge rollercoaster trains, whack a speed-hill in the middle for some airtime & slam on the brakes in time for bed at the Cbeebies Land Hotel?

Used to do that all the time in roller coaster tycoon

 

[Tom]

It was £15 million as far as I'm aware. I've never seen any other figure given for it.

£5 million here:


From: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxYg4IRym6Q