Music Snobbery?

[James]

If you're looking at X Factor (those people cannot sing) and most of the Top 40 Hits then yes, music is dire these days.

However is you use a magical thing called the internet you'll find loads of great modern music. The majority of music I listen to is from band/artists that I have found online!

I think the non-acceptance of modern music is simply down to tastes. If you adore music from the 1960s to the 90s then you probably can't accept that 'music' means something entirely different now. The music industry is constantly changing. I guess it depends whether you're open to change or not!

 

[Tom]

A lot of people slag off DJs such as Tiesto/latter-day Calvin Harris etc as untalented CD-players. While they're not exactly using instruments to create the music live, there is still a consierable degree of skill required to play a set seemlessly, and there is also their choice of set which is a kind of style in itself. It may not be as hard to learn as guitar and drums, but DJs are often dismissed a little too easily.

 

[josht]

A lot of people slag off DJs such as Tiesto/latter-day Calvin Harris etc as untalented CD-players. While they're not exactly using instruments to create the music live, there is still a consierable degree of skill required to play a set seemlessly, and there is also their choice of set which is a kind of style in itself. It may not be as hard to learn as guitar and drums, but DJs are often dismissed a little too easily.

Some do play pre mixed sets but most don't and can be pretty good

 

[Martin]

When people say "There's no good music these days" they really mean "What I consider good music isn't big any more". That's fair enough and it happens because whereas back in the 60s and 70s, you couldn't move for bands like The Beatles, Floyd, Led Zep, Cream, Sabbath, Sex Pistols etc, all bands that were huge icons and still are today, who were constantly, if not innovating themselves, at least were the face of the constant innovation that was happening to contemporary popular music at the time.

What do we have now in terms of arena filling guitar music? Arctic Monkeys with their brand of reheated 90s Britpop. *Insert cliched Britpop/Oasis was a Beatles rip-off comment here*

 

[_nemesis_]

The last time music was music I consider to be summer 2011. After that it's just been extreme synthesisers.

 

[Nick]

The last time music was music I consider to be summer 2011. After that it's just been extreme synthesisers.

I hope this is a joke.

 

[_nemesis_]

Yes, it was intended to be sarcastic.

 

[Nick]

Yes, it was intended to be sarcastic.

You can never tell on the Internet.

 

[josht]

When people say "There's no good music these days" they really mean "What I consider good music isn't big any more". That's fair enough and it happens because whereas back in the 60s and 70s, you couldn't move for bands like The Beatles, Floyd, Led Zep, Cream, Sabbath, Sex Pistols etc, all bands that were huge icons and still are today, who were constantly, if not innovating themselves, at least were the face of the constant innovation that was happening to contemporary popular music at the time.

What do we have now in terms of arena filling guitar music? Arctic Monkeys with their brand of reheated 90s Britpop. *Insert cliched Britpop/Oasis was a Beatles rip-off comment here*

Great point massive bands that could sell out massive gigs and now there's nothing big enough from British bands

And there's only certain bands that can sell out knebworth such as oasis and zeppelin

 

[Plastic Person]

What do we have now in terms of arena filling guitar music? Arctic Monkeys with their brand of reheated 90s Britpop. *Insert cliched Britpop/Oasis was a Beatles rip-off comment here*

I'm almost entirely divorced from guitar music nowadays, but I quite liked the last Arctic Monkeys album, much more so than either of the two previous. There's definitely currently a (dull) push to find another big indie band, in the traditional form, though. Foals have morphed into a stadium band quite discreetly, whilst attempting to maintain the illusion of being experimentalists, but they're also plugging a gap.

 

[Alastair]

What is truly depressing in music now is that truly great composers are completely underappreciated. John Williams, for example, is a living version of Aaron Copland/Richard Wagner - the fact that he writes for film should not detract from the fact that he is every bit as talented as the most celebrated 20th century composers. In 50 years people will look back and think of him as we think of them now. Yet all I see everywhere is Bieber and One Direction, who combined have less talent than one strand of John Williams' beard hair.

 

[Plastic Person]

What is truly depressing in music now is that truly great composers are completely underappreciated. John Williams, for example, is a living version of Aaron Copland/Richard Wagner - the fact that he writes for film should not detract from the fact that he is every bit as talented as the most celebrated 20th century composers. In 50 years people will look back and think of him as we think of them now. Yet all I see everywhere is Bieber and One Direction, who combined have less talent than one strand of John Williams' beard hair.

Surely John Williams is the most celebrated composer of modern times, though? Nick Grimshaw might not open his shows with the score from Empire of the Sun, and it is without doubt that Williams is more versatile than all of One Direction, but they serve completely different purposes. Just like I wouldn't compare the orchestral work of John Williams to that of the equally talented Philip Glass. They compose to serve their own purposes.

 

[Alastair]

What is truly depressing in music now is that truly great composers are completely underappreciated. John Williams, for example, is a living version of Aaron Copland/Richard Wagner - the fact that he writes for film should not detract from the fact that he is every bit as talented as the most celebrated 20th century composers. In 50 years people will look back and think of him as we think of them now. Yet all I see everywhere is Bieber and One Direction, who combined have less talent than one strand of John Williams' beard hair.

Surely John Williams is the most celebrated composer of modern times, though? Nick Grimshaw might not open his shows with the score from Empire of the Sun, and it is without doubt that Williams is more versatile than all of One Direction, but they serve completely different purposes. Just like I wouldn't compare the orchestral work of John Williams to that of the equally talented Philip Glass. They compose to serve their own purposes.

He's the most celebrated film composer yes. But I'm talking in terms of pure popularity. I grant you, he's known by name by a majority of people - but that doesn't mean they've ever listened to any of his music. They could perhaps name a few of his films, Star Wars, Harry Potter; but an equal majority haven't exclusively listened to his soundtracks and appreciated them for what they are. In terms of pure compositional and musical talent, John Williams is the best alive today - that's what I mean, and in terms of people listening to him as they listen to One Direction/Bieber, he is far more underappreciated than he deserves.

 

[Plastic Person]

What is truly depressing in music now is that truly great composers are completely underappreciated. John Williams, for example, is a living version of Aaron Copland/Richard Wagner - the fact that he writes for film should not detract from the fact that he is every bit as talented as the most celebrated 20th century composers. In 50 years people will look back and think of him as we think of them now. Yet all I see everywhere is Bieber and One Direction, who combined have less talent than one strand of John Williams' beard hair.

Surely John Williams is the most celebrated composer of modern times, though? Nick Grimshaw might not open his shows with the score from Empire of the Sun, and it is without doubt that Williams is more versatile than all of One Direction, but they serve completely different purposes. Just like I wouldn't compare the orchestral work of John Williams to that of the equally talented Philip Glass. They compose to serve their own purposes.

He's the most celebrated film composer yes. But I'm talking in terms of pure popularity. I grant you, he's known by name by a majority of people - but that doesn't mean they've ever listened to any of his music. They could perhaps name a few of his films, Star Wars, Harry Potter; but an equal majority haven't exclusively listened to his soundtracks and appreciated them for what they are. In terms of pure compositional and musical talent, John Williams is the best alive today - that's what I mean, and in terms of people listening to him as they listen to One Direction/Bieber, he is far more underappreciated than he deserves.

That's because, for better or worse, many people don't listen to film scores in isolation for leisure. I spend a lot of time in clubs so often find myself listening to records designed for a dancefloor at 4AM, but I appreciate that most people don't, even if dance music currently has a massive impact on radio and the charts.

And to play Devil's advocate for the purpose of the topic, there are also those who wouldn't deny that Williams has been consist in producing iconic scores for mainstream films, but that his work is often syrupy and unimaginative compared to many of his contemporaries such as Ennio Morricone, Alan Menken or Clint Mansell. Nobody would compare him to One Direction, but he is perhaps the best known composer in the world, and a total populist.

 

[Alastair]

What is truly depressing in music now is that truly great composers are completely underappreciated. John Williams, for example, is a living version of Aaron Copland/Richard Wagner - the fact that he writes for film should not detract from the fact that he is every bit as talented as the most celebrated 20th century composers. In 50 years people will look back and think of him as we think of them now. Yet all I see everywhere is Bieber and One Direction, who combined have less talent than one strand of John Williams' beard hair.

Surely John Williams is the most celebrated composer of modern times, though? Nick Grimshaw might not open his shows with the score from Empire of the Sun, and it is without doubt that Williams is more versatile than all of One Direction, but they serve completely different purposes. Just like I wouldn't compare the orchestral work of John Williams to that of the equally talented Philip Glass. They compose to serve their own purposes.

He's the most celebrated film composer yes. But I'm talking in terms of pure popularity. I grant you, he's known by name by a majority of people - but that doesn't mean they've ever listened to any of his music. They could perhaps name a few of his films, Star Wars, Harry Potter; but an equal majority haven't exclusively listened to his soundtracks and appreciated them for what they are. In terms of pure compositional and musical talent, John Williams is the best alive today - that's what I mean, and in terms of people listening to him as they listen to One Direction/Bieber, he is far more underappreciated than he deserves.

That's because, for better or worse, many people don't listen to film scores in isolation for leisure. I spend a lot of time in clubs so often find myself listening to records designed for a dancefloor at 4AM, but I appreciate that most people don't, even if dance music currently has a massive impact on radio and the charts.

And to play Devil's advocate for the purpose of the topic, there are also those who wouldn't deny that Williams has been consist in producing iconic scores for mainstream films, but that his work is often syrupy and unimaginative compared to many of his contemporaries such as Ennio Morricone, Alan Menken or Clint Mansell. Nobody would compare him to One Direction, but he is perhaps the best known composer in the world, and a total populist.

Syrupy and unimaginative? If by that you mean consistent in style, then yes of course - you can pick out a John Williams score from a mile away. But in the same way you can pick out a Mozart piece a mile away. Alan Menken is much the same, his music for Disney has a very similar sound (especially those he did for the classic 90's animated films). It's not a crime to compose in a distinct style, especially not when that style involves some of the most complex, delicate and pleasing orchestration possible.

 

[Martin]

It's great how people go on about the like of One Direction and Bieber as if it's a modern thing, then listen to The Beatles, the original boyband. Yeah, The Beatles played their own instruments and eventually became the experimental, game changing band they're known as, but in the early years, they were the One Direction of the 60s.

All eras of popular music have had dross, it's not a new thing. The 70s didn't just produce the stuff we we remember it for, it had plenty of drivel as well. We just remember the good stuff. Just like how in 40 years no one will remember most of what we consider throwaway rubbish today.

 

[Nick]

That's why I hope One Direction can escape their beginnings. Their style has changed quite a lot as they've progressed, and I hope that by taking more influence in other genres, then they can re-popularise alternative music. Like imagine if they come out with an ambient or post-rock album (although it is unlikely), and were still chart-topping. The last time I can think of an album like this is with Kid A, and before then was probably Nevermind. There's obviously been a lot of underground albums like this in the same time, like Endtroducing, Illmatic and Loveless, but they haven't had the impact that they should have, due to low exposure. It doesn't even need to be One Direction, but any artist who can combine chart-topping success with imaginative and original music. Music could do with something new.

 

[Meat Pie]

So what you're saying Nick... is that you want One Direction... to change direction?

But I do think there is one crucial difference between early Beatles and One Direction - The Beatles had control of their act and music, whereas One Direction (much like most modern trashy pop acts) have no control. Simon Cowell and Co. will decide the music, Simon Cowell and Co. will decide the image, Simon Cowell and Co. will dictate everything.

The manufactured acts of today are just products with no potential for artistic imput.

 

[Martin]

Same can be said for The Monkeys, the original corporate group. They were created by a label to make money, but they rebelled and began playing their instruments, writing their own music and doing what they wanted.

One Direction could do the same if they really wanted. They've got the fanbase and money to survive if they left their label. They won't do it, but they could.

And as far as cheesy bubblegum pop goes, One Direction aren't that bad, taken as what it is, not being compared to *insert rock band here*. Although my exposure to their music is exclusively at 2am in nightclubs so I guess my perception of what they sound like is different.

 

[Sam]

The best example of a manufactured, throwaway pop band completely changing direction and producing critically acclaimed experimental music is 80s band Talk Talk.

The leap of imagination required to go from making Duran Duran-esque dross like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbZ9uCQW1Hk#

...to making Spirit of Eden, still one of the most intense listens anywhere on the planet, is almost too big to comprehend.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCZnXg0vNs0#

When that guitar cuts into the ambience like the sharpest of knives a few minutes in, you can feel them accelerating away from their beginnings at light speed. Talk Talk are role-models for what every band should aim to be. As Mark Hollis sings in the above track, 'the world turned upside down.'