Indeed it is possibly the best result for Labour and certainly a good step into them taking power, but of course it is a shame that the most dishonest and law breaking prime minister possibly ever is permitted to stay in power. Although his parliamentary power is now significantly lower, with a majority like he has what he has managed to do should be near impossible but he's managed it, he may well struggle to get certain things through parliament as MP's refuse to accept bills, he may well face very low levels of support from the parliamentary party which will cause Boris major problems.
-
ℹ️ Heads up...
This is a popular topic that is fast moving Guest - before posting, please ensure that you check out the first post in the topic for a quick reminder of guidelines, and importantly a summary of the known facts and information so far. Thanks.
UK politics general discussion
- Thread starter Craig
- Start date
Matt.GC
TS Member
He doesn't strike me as the type that will take all this to heart and go. My money is on him being in place at the next election, he already sent JRM out to repeat the "1 is enough" position to everyone yesterday. He knows he's safe from another vote for a year, so I think he'll batten down the hatches for what comes next. Wakefield will be excused as ex labour anyway, Honiton as mid term blues. He'll wait for this stuff to be chip paper. Remember he doesn't have much in way of honour.
IanB
TS Member
What I am curious about, is all the cabinet ministers saying its time to unite, is how many times did they vote against Theresa May after her confidence vote was held?
Boris should of resigned a long time ago, I don't understand how anyone can justify the behaviour that was taking place during the covid pandemic.
The longer this drags on, the worse it is going to be for everyone.
Boris should of resigned a long time ago, I don't understand how anyone can justify the behaviour that was taking place during the covid pandemic.
The longer this drags on, the worse it is going to be for everyone.
Craig
TS Administrator
I agree he's not one to resign, but I'm not so sure he'll be in place at the next election. As mentioned yesterday, a chunk of those voting for him to remain in power are doing so because they then know they're safe as an MP until at least probably until 2024. If they got shot of him last night, there's an almost certainty of an election within a few months and with little to no time to turn things around, many would be out on their ear. They believe there's a possibility, however remote that there could be a reversal of fortune before then.
As time moves on and we get closer to the next election, those potential by election losses, escalating cost of living issues and the polls will come into play, and there'll likely be a realisation that they need a fresh start. There's a ridiculous amount of ammunition that's been given to the opposition parties in recent months, only added to by the likes of Nadine Dorries only yesterday criticising a former Tory government health minister's preparations for a pandemic. A general election will be a pretty brutal experience for them to put it lightly.
148 MPs voting against you is a huge number, and history dictates it's the beginning of the end for any leader. Despite the hilarious mental gymnastics being done by his supporters at the moment, avoiding being kicked out as leader by just 30 odd votes by your own party when many are almost certain to lose their seat in an election is an astonishingly poor reflection on his leadership. The result was far, far worse than they assumed and probably the best in terms of outcome for the opposition parties. His time as PM might not yet be over, but the warring within the Tory party has only just started, and inevitably it'll only get worse as time goes on. Despite the spin, last night's vote only delayed his departure rather than prevented it.
As time moves on and we get closer to the next election, those potential by election losses, escalating cost of living issues and the polls will come into play, and there'll likely be a realisation that they need a fresh start. There's a ridiculous amount of ammunition that's been given to the opposition parties in recent months, only added to by the likes of Nadine Dorries only yesterday criticising a former Tory government health minister's preparations for a pandemic. A general election will be a pretty brutal experience for them to put it lightly.
148 MPs voting against you is a huge number, and history dictates it's the beginning of the end for any leader. Despite the hilarious mental gymnastics being done by his supporters at the moment, avoiding being kicked out as leader by just 30 odd votes by your own party when many are almost certain to lose their seat in an election is an astonishingly poor reflection on his leadership. The result was far, far worse than they assumed and probably the best in terms of outcome for the opposition parties. His time as PM might not yet be over, but the warring within the Tory party has only just started, and inevitably it'll only get worse as time goes on. Despite the spin, last night's vote only delayed his departure rather than prevented it.
Matt N
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Mako (SeaWorld Orlando)
Even if Boris is still in power in 2024, I’m not so sure that a Conservative loss at the next election is as much of a dead cert as many make out.
Even though Johnson’s popularity has been harmed, I think most people still view him and the Tories as an ideal option compared to Keir Starmer and Labour.
A lot of people truly, truly despise the Labour Party and Keir Starmer at the moment, so I’m not sure that they have enough sway to topple the Conservatives at the next election; even if Boris isn’t particularly well liked, I think a lot of people still view him as a better option than Keir Starmer.
Last night’s result was rather damning, though; 40% of your own party turning against you is extremely significant, and could well make it very difficult for Boris Johnson to pass legislation. And after some of the vitriolic exchanges from last night (e.g. Nadine Dorries vs Jeremy Hunt), it does seem like in-fighting has begun within the Conservative Party…
Even though Johnson’s popularity has been harmed, I think most people still view him and the Tories as an ideal option compared to Keir Starmer and Labour.
A lot of people truly, truly despise the Labour Party and Keir Starmer at the moment, so I’m not sure that they have enough sway to topple the Conservatives at the next election; even if Boris isn’t particularly well liked, I think a lot of people still view him as a better option than Keir Starmer.
Last night’s result was rather damning, though; 40% of your own party turning against you is extremely significant, and could well make it very difficult for Boris Johnson to pass legislation. And after some of the vitriolic exchanges from last night (e.g. Nadine Dorries vs Jeremy Hunt), it does seem like in-fighting has begun within the Conservative Party…
The campaign to make the public dislike Starmer is working but not quite as well as the campaign to make the public dislike Corbyn. Starmer needs to start presenting his better plan, he needs to start saying exactly what he is going to do, effectively he needs to start campaigning for the election now, he needs to tell people what his plans are. He's got some plans, but he needs drastic popular policies.
If it turns out that lots of infighting happens then that will lead to a drop in popularity, the public don't want a party who are just fighting each other instead of getting on with sorting out the country. In fact it should be a big part of the Labour campaign.
Benzin
TS Member
Let's hope not.
Alsty
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Shambhala
I can't agree with that. Polling puts Labour ahead of the Conservatives by a significant margin:
And Johnson's approval rating as low as 34%
Even The Express, which is so right-leaning it might as well be written by Boris Johnson himself, puts Labour ahead at the moment.
I very much doubt we are in for a massive landslide like in 1997, if anything Labour might win with a very small majority, more likely is the need for a coalition with the Liberal Democrats. simply our voting system is incredibly unfair and unrepresentative. Labour really should campaign to federalise the UK (making the house of lords a senate and local assemblies in England) and changing the voting system so its more representative (preferably not proportional representation as I'd rather we still had local constituencies although there are other systems). Well that's my opinion anyway, that would mean the tories would be away from power for a considerable amount of time, because for them to win an election in a more proportional system they really would have to win over massive portions of the population.
It’s quite hard to see where this will land. His approval rating hasn’t been a smooth downward trajectory. It’s bounced around all over the places in response to things like Brexit, Covid (including ‘the vaccine bounce’), Afghanistan, Ukraine, Party Gate, the cost of living crisis etc. There also isn’t a clear successor in the Conservative Party, nor is there a single strong opposition (at least in England).
Whatever you think about his leadership skills, what’s clear is that he’s not a very nice man. He’s cutback our foreign aid, is planning to deport people to Rwanda, has fudged a public inquiry into Grenfell Tower, and he’s repeatedly refused to criticise the sweatshops in Leicester.
I was doing some research into the Leicester sweatshops the other day. I remembered it being in the news, but I hadn’t realised the scale of it. There were 10,000 slaves in Leicester. In the Leicester East constituency 12.5% of the people living there were slaves.
https://inews.co.uk/news/leicester-...ar-on-exploitation-abuse-prosecutions-1134805
The slaves were being paid less than a quarter of the minimum wage, had no breaks, worked in condemned buildings, had no access to clean water, fire escapes were deliberately blocked up, in some cases the slaves slept on the factory floor, in other cases the slaves slept 20 to a terrace house. Some of them were children. They weren’t allowed time off when they were ill or given PPE. No one was prosecuted for it. Here’s the prime minister’s defense at Prime Minister’s Questions.
12.5% of the people in one constituency were slaves, and this government did nothing to stop it. No one was prosecuted for it. How have we allowed such an unpleasant bunch of people to run our country? What does that say about us as a society?
Whatever you think about his leadership skills, what’s clear is that he’s not a very nice man. He’s cutback our foreign aid, is planning to deport people to Rwanda, has fudged a public inquiry into Grenfell Tower, and he’s repeatedly refused to criticise the sweatshops in Leicester.
I was doing some research into the Leicester sweatshops the other day. I remembered it being in the news, but I hadn’t realised the scale of it. There were 10,000 slaves in Leicester. In the Leicester East constituency 12.5% of the people living there were slaves.
https://inews.co.uk/news/leicester-...ar-on-exploitation-abuse-prosecutions-1134805
The slaves were being paid less than a quarter of the minimum wage, had no breaks, worked in condemned buildings, had no access to clean water, fire escapes were deliberately blocked up, in some cases the slaves slept on the factory floor, in other cases the slaves slept 20 to a terrace house. Some of them were children. They weren’t allowed time off when they were ill or given PPE. No one was prosecuted for it. Here’s the prime minister’s defense at Prime Minister’s Questions.
12.5% of the people in one constituency were slaves, and this government did nothing to stop it. No one was prosecuted for it. How have we allowed such an unpleasant bunch of people to run our country? What does that say about us as a society?
Well this isn't true, although the tory supporting media would like to make out it is. The Labour party had been going through a very rough patch however it is definitely recovering, recently they've managed to force a government with a massive majority into introducing a windfall tax they refused to introduce for months. Labour are in a very tricky position, they don't have many seats for being the second largest party and it seems almost all news outlets want to portray them and there leader as completely useless with no idea's. They've still got a long way to go before they are a really strong opposition however they are at least challenging the government as they should be, I don't know what else people expect Labour to be doing, people say change things but they literally aren't in government and therefore have minimal power.
I suppose my comment was based at least in part on the recent council elections.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2022/england/results
Basically, everyone apart from The Conservatives and UKIP gained. But there wasn’t really one stand out winner. I'm not looking at overall votes here, but specifically their gains. That's because the gains presumably tell us the most about where former Conservative voters are turning to and how the mathematics might change at the next election. Of course, voting is secret so we don't know how individual choices changed. I suspect some Conservatives returned to Labour and some Labour moved to the Greens. Part of the reason Labour didn't gain more is because they may have lost some voters as well as gaining some.
If there was a stand out winner, it was the Liberal Democrats or The Greens. I know you could argue that Labour already held a big chunk of the seats up for grabs, so they had more limited opportunities for gains. There isn’t an obvious party or leader everyone’s being drawn to though. If there is it’s the Lib Dems, but they’re coming back from a real low point. Also, the Lib Dems do often do better in local elections than national elections. The Labour message was also a bit odd. They simultaneously argued that they did badly in the previous election because of Corbyn, but that they also couldn’t improve much on the previous result because they did so well.
There does seem to be a reasonable swell of people who aren’t happy about the government, but less consensus about where they should go to. You might find bubbles of people who mostly vote for the Lib Dems/Labour/Greens, but I don’t feel that any single party is really seeing a massive swell in support.
I’d also say that aside from the SNP, none of the leaders really have the passionate supporters that someone like Boris or Corbyn have had. There are a lot of people either voting for ‘the least bad option’, or tactically voting to get the Tories out.
Of course, the Conservatives will still be worried about a big drop in support. But they might be more worried if most of their supporters were abandoning them for the same party. Particularly under a first past the post system. I suppose it will also depend on how much of this is down to different views and how much of it's down to tactical voting.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2022/england/results
Basically, everyone apart from The Conservatives and UKIP gained. But there wasn’t really one stand out winner. I'm not looking at overall votes here, but specifically their gains. That's because the gains presumably tell us the most about where former Conservative voters are turning to and how the mathematics might change at the next election. Of course, voting is secret so we don't know how individual choices changed. I suspect some Conservatives returned to Labour and some Labour moved to the Greens. Part of the reason Labour didn't gain more is because they may have lost some voters as well as gaining some.
If there was a stand out winner, it was the Liberal Democrats or The Greens. I know you could argue that Labour already held a big chunk of the seats up for grabs, so they had more limited opportunities for gains. There isn’t an obvious party or leader everyone’s being drawn to though. If there is it’s the Lib Dems, but they’re coming back from a real low point. Also, the Lib Dems do often do better in local elections than national elections. The Labour message was also a bit odd. They simultaneously argued that they did badly in the previous election because of Corbyn, but that they also couldn’t improve much on the previous result because they did so well.
There does seem to be a reasonable swell of people who aren’t happy about the government, but less consensus about where they should go to. You might find bubbles of people who mostly vote for the Lib Dems/Labour/Greens, but I don’t feel that any single party is really seeing a massive swell in support.
I’d also say that aside from the SNP, none of the leaders really have the passionate supporters that someone like Boris or Corbyn have had. There are a lot of people either voting for ‘the least bad option’, or tactically voting to get the Tories out.
Of course, the Conservatives will still be worried about a big drop in support. But they might be more worried if most of their supporters were abandoning them for the same party. Particularly under a first past the post system. I suppose it will also depend on how much of this is down to different views and how much of it's down to tactical voting.
Last edited:
This is definitely true, the SNP have got a God like following which is completely unjustified but a good portion of the Scottish media support them. If anything all this really shows is the power the media do still really have, most people don't look into things on there own but rather just listen to the headlines or read the odd article.
Benzin
TS Member
Until FPTP is gone then the only real measure is tactical voting. Want the Tories out? Vote for the most likely challenger (and if I recall there's plenty of sites dedicated to telling you who if you're unsure).
The other issue is clearly the "they're all just as bad as each other" dynamic. See the "These strikes are exactly what would happen under Labour" when they're happening NOW under a Conservative government. But people lap it up even though there's clear issues with the incumbent mob that surely ANYONE is better? Damn Corbyn wanting to give people free Internet the scoundrel.
It's maddening that politics has become so tribal.
Dave
TS Founding Member
Outline why Labour is a waste of time, which policies or positions of the Labour Party do you disagree with? And which aspects of the Tory party do you think rates better than either Labour or Libdems?
jon81uk
TS Member
Why are Labour a waste of time?
The tories have proved themselves to be useless currently. I don't recall widespread use of food banks until the tories came to power?
Labour had a lot of good ideas, public ownership of railways has slightly happened anyway as the DfT has control again. Bringing buses into public control would also have been great, compare London bus service to the rest of the UK.
Labour currently want a windfall tax on energy companies amongst other things to help with the cost of living.
Well let’s see first we had Corbyn - enough said
Now we have Mr Indecision Kier Starmer. If they had a decent strong leader it would be something. And no, I don’t like Boris or his rule breaking but even still presently I see him as a stronger leader than Kier particularly at a time of a war in Europe.
Agreed there is little alternative presenting itself at the moment. The Lib Dems at one time under Nick Clegg did seem to be the party of choice, but sadly he sold his sold to the Devil and made a pact with the Tories for no other reason than to further his career and to hell with who he threw under the bus on the way. (Did that work??)
To help ease the cost of living, I've been cycling to work this week (18 mile round trip, and fairly easy ride). Has been decent weather, so I guess once the storms clouds start gathering the car will come back in to play. Many forecourts now selling diesel at £2 litre or as they like to put it 199.9, with unleaded ranging between mid 180's to around 193. To think, when I started driving, I was paying that a Gallon, now paying that a litre.
I recall putting £3 in my car and getting half a tank when I was a teenager with my first motor!
Last edited by a moderator: