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Phantasialand: General Discussion

But nothing but a tacky VR overlay in 5 years?

Still a bit suspect.

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I suspect that Crazy Bats was only ever meant as a very temporary measure to keep the ride running until FLY is ready.

Once FLY opens, I think it’ll be little more than a year before we see it closed and the building used for a more modern and impressive dark ride.
 
Phantasialand seem to love adding coasters, which is all good, but I would love to see the park add some more flat rides, talacan is great but I don’t get why they don’t add more to their new areas. You’ll struggle to fit anything in to klugheim due to the design of the area, and it looks as if the area around fly will be the same, which is a shame as it’s hard for these areas to ever expand.
 
AstroDan said:
But nothing but a tacky VR overlay in 5 years?

Still a bit suspect.

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Probably still better investment than DBGT.

Different parks have different approaches. And given that Phantasialand usually have to demolish stuff first before building something new it's no surprise they have longer gaps between additions.

Think as well it misses that between my first visit in 2008 and my return in 2014 they'd rejigged the Berlin area, added Maus and Chiapas (plus a few smaller additions) and in the process of building Klugheim.

They're showing far more willing in investment than other parks are. In a far more difficult situation in terms of space and locals.
 
Benzin said:
Think as well it misses that between my first visit in 2008 and my return in 2014 they'd rejigged the Berlin area, added Maus and Chiapas (plus a few smaller additions) and in the process of building Klugheim.
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This is a good point. My last visit was in 2011. The Berlin area had only just been built. Chiapas, Taron and this will all be new if I went back again. That's 3 very major additions at an average of 3 to 4 years.

Compare that to Alton Towers over the same period:
Ice Age (Closed)
Sub-Terra (Closed)
Smiler
Cbeebies Land - with several additions in the following years
Galactica (VR removed)
Dungeons (Pay extra)
Wicker Man

They may take their time but by comparison Phantasialand have done a huge amount in 10 years.

Of course Europa have had an even bigger 10 years (Wodan, Arthur, Ireland, Voletarium, and rebuilt almost half their dark rides), including 2 Hotels and Rulantica. But they and Energylandia are the exception, not the norm.
 
It's fair to point out that there are mitigating circumstances (financial, spatial, planning) but even taking all of that into account, the gap between investments at PL is extreme.

Beyond all the arguments about ownership and how much money Mack have in the bank, PL are still a park that get over 2 million guests a year. And it's expensive to get in, and expensive to stay. This is not Tripsdrill.

When FLY opens - which will no doubt be a masterpiece - what they really need to do is invest in a series of high-quality, mid-level, mid-scale attractions to add a bit of much-needed capacity to the park. They've done it before with Maus, which is perfectly fine. Another half dozen rides that size would do a great deal to spread the queues out.

Or they could keep down this route of just knocking out a masterpiece twice a decade (if that) - but the budgets, delays and gaps between investments seem to be getting bigger and bigger with each project. It isn't sustainable.
 
I’d rather have quality over quantity. :)

They simply don’t have the space for high volumes of investment, so every investment needs to be perfect to get the crowds in.

As for crazy bats, it’s the best VR I’ve done, and I’m not a fan of VR, but it’s very good nonetheless!
 
Phantasialand also had a massive investment year for families and kids in 2010. They also got the Hotel Tartuffe in 2012 and ever since then have done Taron, Chiapas, Raik. The rides removed have been Race for Atlantis and Silver Mine/ Silver City!
 
TPJames said:
I’d rather have quality over quantity. :)

They simply don’t have the space for high volumes of investment, so every investment needs to be perfect to get the crowds in.

As for crazy bats, it’s the best VR I’ve done, and I’m not a fan of VR, but it’s very good nonetheless!
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I think this year proves they need some quantity. Everyone who has been to PL during Covid has said how horrid it is. The park needs more capacity in the rides.

Not everything needs to be a masterpiece, sometimes what you need is something for people to do so they don’t clog up the paths.
 
Dave said:
I think this year proves they need some quantity. Everyone who has been to PL during Covid has said how horrid it is. The park needs more capacity in the rides.

Not everything needs to be a masterpiece, sometimes what you need is something for people to do so they don’t clog up the paths.
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In terms of high throughput rides they have: Maus au chocolat, crazy bats (no vr), Hollywood tour, Geister ricksha, fenj ju palace (no preshow), black mamba, mystery castle.

Rides which also generate a medium throughput include chiapas and taron.

They also have three high occupancy theatres for shows.

In fact, there aren’t that many low throughput rides in the park. There’s only really talocan, raik and river quest which are notably low throughput. River quest has had nightmares with one of its lifts meaning that the throughput is practically halved.

The park does absolutely everything it can with the space. Of course that paths are going to be crowded at the moment, it’s low footprint and they need to make up for their losses during the lockdown. If they rush their projects and throw in some attractions left right and centre in the (extremely limited) gaps to up capacity, then the park would look tacky and wouldn’t live up to the level of detail and immersion they are trying to achieve. They have no physical room to expand, the land the park currently sits on is all they’ve got, so they need to rely on removing and replacing old attractions to build new ones. That’s not a quick job, and especially given the fuss the neighbours make, the fantasy section of the park is practically unusable for any future developments bar the crazy bats complex building.

At the end of the day rookburgh is an extremely large investment. In the last 10 years they’ve redeveloped Berlin including Maus au chocolat and Wellen Flug, chiapas Plaza and a whole themed area called Klugheim and a second themed area called rookburgh. Chessington is a similar size to phantasialsnd and in the same space of time they’ve built nothing new, and Thorpe park, also similar size, has built one coaster and one failed dark ride. We can’t compare Phantasialand to parks like Alton towers and Europa park here, they physically can’t compete when it comes to footprint and that has to be considered when looking at their developments compared to the likes of Europa park.

At the end of the day, rookburgh was due to open in June, covid stopped that. But moving forwards they most certainly have plans to redevelop Geister ricksha and fenj ju palace, crazy bats complex (including Hollywood tour). These will definitely be worthwhile investments which I’m sure will have high throughput additions. When talocan reaches the end of its life, I’d like to see something higher throughput fit the space if they can work with the limited space that plot offers.

But for now let’s just appreciate they’ve built us an entire themed area, including the longest flying coaster in the world and a brand new hotel, in four years, on a tiny plot of land. That’s pretty impressive in itself and I’m so excited for this investment to come to life.
 
I'd counter that by arguing that it's problematic Taron, Raik and Chiapas all have dodgy throughput, given that they are three of the most popular rides in the park. Talocan seems more to be about spectacle than ridership, so I'll let that one off the hook.

I don't think anybody is dissing the quality of what Phantasialand do, we're just discussing whether it's always the right way, especially given the obvious pressure that recent events have put on the park. I agree it will be better in years to come. It's ironic to consider that the rides that were built for capacity - Colorado Adventure, Hollywood Tour, Geister Riksha, hell, even Winjas - are from a different, slightly less ambitious era.

I still think that, EP aside, it has the best ride line-up in Europe. And it has Taron. No small feat for a small plot of land.
 
I must ask; how does Phantasialand afford to invest in huge areas of this sheer quality every 4-5 years when they get only about 2 million visitors? Does the park’s owner have some form of other, very lucrative financial resource elsewhere that generates a seemingly unlimited supply of money?

Then again, there are quite a number of theme parks in Europe that have me asking the same question! Is stuff simply cheaper/easier to build over on the mainland or something?
 
I’m certainly not saying just shove a load of flat rides in the park, I just think it’s a shame these new areas don’t open with some filler rides, or even space for filler rides rather than just rollercoasters. Taron and that area is really good, but there’s just no room for expansion or a new ride in that area as far as I can see, it even shows when they had to build that massive cattlepen in the area to fit the Taron queue line. And now with distance queues there’s only really one way into the area next to Riverquest.

of course we’ve not seen the new area but I imagine it will be similar with no room for expansive or future flat/dark rides.

Im looking forward to see what they do with Hollywood tour (which seems to have been closed all season) and that area, as it’s a massive site and it would be a shame to just have another big coaster or something in there. But guess that’s a few years away now.
 
Plastic Person said:
This reads like an accusation. Knowing Phantasialand's attitude to enthusiasts, you'll be receiving a cease-and-desist and a lifetime ban before the week's out.
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I’m not accusing them of anything; I’m sure they have perfectly honourable intentions and a perfectly honourable source of money!

I was merely curious, as they seem to splash out given their relatively modest visitor figures!
 
Genuinely, I've no idea where the cash comes from, apart from knowing that the park is quite pricey and a relatively premium, quality product. Its owners take the absolute antithesis of the Mack family approach, and little is known about them. Well, aside from that time Adele apparently called Robert Löffelhardt "a d**head."
 
Matt N said:
how does Phantasialand afford to invest in huge areas of this sheer quality every 4-5 years when they get only about 2 million visitors? Does the park’s owner have some form of other, very lucrative financial resource elsewhere that generates a seemingly unlimited supply of money?

Then again, there are quite a number of theme parks in Europe that have me asking the same question! Is stuff simply cheaper/easier to build over on the mainland or something?
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Nobody knows for sure, but they do take far longer to build projects which really helps spread costs of construction, allowing bigger budgets per project. Most parks work to a strict deadline to try get something marketable each season and earn itself back during the year. Phantasialand is more like every 4-5 years a big new area. I guess it has found such a solid visitor base that it doesn't need to rely on yearly attendance boosts.

Also they have one park, not a group, so all the money for reinvestment goes back into the park.

Interestingly theyre not actually that pricey for the amazing quality of the park, last I looked a ticket was roughly the same price to get you into a Merlin park. Not as costly as nearby Efteling either.

Part of the mystery of Phantasialand! It's incredible that there's a place like this not too far away, at its best right now.
 
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