• ℹ️ Heads up...

    This is a popular topic that is fast moving Guest - before posting, please ensure that you check out the first post in the topic for a quick reminder of guidelines, and importantly a summary of the known facts and information so far. Thanks.

Phantasialand - what's the plan?

Sam

TS Member
I hope this justifies its own thread, as I want to have a more in-depth conversation about Phantasialand's future and I'm interested in what you all make of this.

More than any other park in the world, when I go to Phantasialand or read about their developments I'm always left with the same question: what's the plan here?

With most other parks, there is a more-or-less obvious strategy that ties everything together - their past, their investments, their levels of spending, the frequency of additions and the diversification into other revenue streams (resort hotels, bars, golf courses, shopping or things like MackMedia).

It's pretty obvious what the long-term strategy is at Disney World, and all their decisions reflect this. The same is true of Europa-Park, whose patterns of spending and expansion have been consistent since opening day (and this has evidently been extremely successful). Both EP and Disney combine huge capacity with a quality product, giving them huge margins on accommodation and food and drink.

Other more regional and, I guess, more 'everyday' parks (like Alton Towers and Six Flags) evidently have a different strategy, with smaller margins but also lower (and therefore less risky) year-on-year investments - enough to keep the visitor numbers ticking over (in theory).

Phantasialand doesn't fit the pattern of any of the parks above, or any other for that matter. Every time I visit the place I think that commercial pressures will surely force them in one of these directions (to become a fully-fledged global resort or to make cheaper and more regular investments), but every time I think this they unveil another blockbuster ride even more ambitious and expensive than the last.

None of it makes any sense. Unlike EP, DLP or even Efteling, they're a regional theme park that mostly serves a local, multi-visit customer base in the Cologne urban area. You'd expect that type of park to invest less but invest every year (resorts like Disney World only need to add rides every few years as few people go annually, but they spend more money when they're there). But years go by without Phantasialand adding anything.

xY8hbGk.png


The TEA reports have long shown the park's guest figures almost flatlining - now at around the 2m mark. As you can see above they're sandwiched between two regional parks that follow the 'invest less but invest often' model (at least ostensibly).

They're miles behind Europa-Park (at 5.7m) and Efteling at (5.4m) despite arguably making much more impressive ride investments than either of those for the last two decades.

So what I find weird about Phantasialand is:
  • They invest as if they're part of Universal Orlando, but they're a regional theme park.
  • These enormous, Disney-quality investments have seemingly little impact on guest figures even though they increase in scale and ambition each time.
  • The theming and world-building seems designed to turn the park into a real and expansive resort, yet they have shown no inclination towards doing this.
  • Despite having these beautifully themed little worlds, they make no attempt to 'sweat the asset' with premium experiences in these environments, in the way that Disney and EP do extensively.
  • The park is absolutely tiny and almost full, and there are seemingly no plans to address this. What happens when they've filled it up?
  • They make almost no attempt to use their existing assets to seriously cash in on food and drink, which both Disney and EP make an absolute killing on. Instead, it's almost treated as an after-thought.
  • Although they now have three hotels, they don't seem to have taken any of the (relatively easy) steps to properly monetise people staying in them by giving them more attractive nighttime options and hosting more year-round events (EP are obviously the masters at this).
So returning to my additional question: what is the long-term plan here? At the point of building Mystery Castle in 1998, there was obviously a deliberate and extreme change in direction for the park. Everything they have done since has been consistent with that, and if anything the ride investments have become more elaborate, extravagant and expensive.

But it does not seem to have brought a significant increase in guest numbers, or a change in status from a regional theme park to a global or even European resort. Yet they plough on regardless, with longer and longer gaps between ever more eyewatering investments. What's the game plan here? Do they even have one?

Where will this park be in 10, 20, or 30 years time?
 
I don't know Phantasialand well enough to give a full answer, having only been once almost a decade ago. However I would guess it's because they are less commercially minded than we've come to expect from a Theme Park. Maybe they are content with the size and profitability of the park. I don't know anything about the parks owners but if it's a small group, not tied down to investors they could have decided delivering on a vision is more important.

Whatever the reason I'm glad that a park is taking this route. It's encouraging to see a small player deliver on the global stage.
 
It kinda reminds me in a way of when Premier Parks bought out Six Flags in the late 90s, they never really had a structure that you described and just thought "Oh yeah let's get more customers by adding loads of new coasters lmao" like they did by adding 4 new coasters at Geauga Lake in the first year they bought it (2000). I appreciate that's not really the same deal, but it shows the awful repercussions when you don't think ahead properly.

With Phantasia, I never had any idea the attendance was that low. I honestly thought it was like 3 Million to 4 Million mark. I think though what's stopping it being a full on "destination" park is the lack of accommodation close to the park (like within walking distance that EP, DLP and PA all have) and the hotels at the park aren't exactly cheap per night either.
 
Phantasialand’s an odd one, which is part of what I like about the places. It doesn’t have any sort of pattern or predictability about it.

The park’s angle simply seems to be to install whatever attraction takes their fancy to the highest standard it realistically can :tearsofjoy:

They have shown before that they would like to be able to grow the park and resort. I recall some years back now a rather ambitious looking plan to expand the resort to cover the whole area across the road (where the Matamba car park and campsite sit). There were plans to grow the hotel offering, additional show venues and new themed areas for the park itself. These were ultimately scuppered by an apparent refusal to grant permission for the expansion, coupled with intense objection and campaigning from conservation groups and locals (I believe the woodlands around the park are heavily protected).

It’s a real shame, as I’m sure if the park had the space to expand they really could create an all-round experience.

Ultimately, when it comes to gate figures I guess there’s only so many people you can get into one small park in a year. You could always run the risk of becoming oversubscribed and unable to cope with the guest numbers you attract, which could in turn drive down future figures if the park was to get a reputation for being bad for queues.

I can only assume the park is also able to make decent money from the corporate market (an offering which is good to have when located near a city such as Cologne). There was some big investment made in the new conferencing facilities a few years back, and they’re always promoting their “Business to Pleasure” offerings.

There must be enough money coming into the park in order to bankroll the projects they undertake. I can’t see how otherwise the park could open the likes of Chiapas, Taron, Raik, Klugheim and F.L.Y in what is really quite a short space of time.

Personally, I can see the park continuing to grow for the next few years, where we will see replacements for Temple of the Snowbat, Hollywood Tour and Geister. After that I’m expecting to see a quieter period, as realistically the only expansion will come from removing existing attractions but the obvious candidates will be no more. Perhaps they hope to find a solution to the land expansion by this point. Who knows!
 
I think as Ian points out it’s a park massively compromised by external forces regarding expansion, but is a family business with the same passion and drive for quality that a park like EP has.

So long as the bank balance is healthy I don’t suppose you need a lot logic when it comes to the decisions you are making when you only have the family to justify to.
 
I did hear somewhere that the owner of Phantasialand formerly owned Mirabilandia in Italy, but they sold it and got quite a lot of money for it, which is how they are funding lavish investments like Klugheim and Rookburgh.
 
Mirabilandia was bought out by Löffelhardt and the owner of Preston & Barbieri in 1996, but they sold it off to Parques Reunidos in August 2006 for €100M.

While a fair sum of money, no doubt it will have split some way between the Löffelhardt family and Preston & Barbieri’s owners, so I doubt PL stood to gain the lot. It’s also a good while before the likes of Klugheim came along, and the park were already rather big spenders by 2006 as Black Mamba had already opened earlier that year to the tune of €22M and Hotel Matamba and Talocan were in the works. Not to mention River Quest, Feng Ju Palace (dire as it is, an investment was made) Wuze Town & Winjas too which had happened in the 5 years previously along with other bits.
 
The park is limited a lot by the villages next door, I'm not really sure where they'll go once they've revamped the China area and replaced Night Hawk/Hollywood Tour.

Can only assume they have a plan, but given the area it'll be difficult for them to do much. They don't even own all the car parks!
 
At the point of building Mystery Castle in 1998, there was obviously a deliberate and extreme change in direction for the park. Everything they have done since has been consistent with that, and if anything the ride investments have become more elaborate, extravagant and expensive.
Fans always say this, but I suppose there really wasn't that much an extreme change in direction (other than not going for dark rides anymore). They've always had a lot of elaborate areas, themed coasters and adventure themes. But the budgets and vision have just continued to grow exponentially. They've swapped chicken wire rockwork (all that was affordable for parks starting out) for some of the best theming in the world.

They have really mastered how to build a theme park in an otherwise very small, dull location (Efteling etc don't have to build this way to have a great park).

Their method of slowing projects right down means a lot more streamlined cashflow and no doubt helps the park manage these enormous construction projects, and reach perfection. It then doesn't matter as much that they don't get big spikes in attendance because response is spread over a longer time between new attractions. If they didn't open any new attractions, the attendance would fall rather than flatline. They don't really have the space for much higher attendances either so this seems a sensible way to do it.

Who cares how it all works under the surface anyway (unless you work in the park business). The whole place is a mystery, that's the way the park seem to like it and part of what makes it incredible. Somehow they subvert every trend.

So long as they don't die trying, this park is in a real golden age happening right now. Thank god for it, when Chessington, most of Alton Towers and Thorpe Park are so stale today.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Sam
The biggest mystery for me is why Hollywood boat tour hasn't been updated.

Also the plot of the Chinese madhouse pre-show is very confusing.
 
The owner in an interview in 2014 at the opening of Chiapas outlined their strategy as having 3 parts
- modernising the park
- expanded resort offering
- the long awaited expansion leading to a water park and year round opening.

"The most important thing is to bring the park to a higher level, so that all of the rides are modern 'e-ticket' attractions,' muses Loffelhardt. "That is the first step, but we also want to go for more hotels and evening entertainment, because business events are important to us when the park is closed. And then I think we go the next step and open the park for the whole year, but for that we need a second concept, and I think that will be a nice waterpark. We have been working on getting the extra land for the last 10 years, but I think this year we will get it".

Obviously the expansion opposite Berlin failed to pass after all, and they continue to fight for it. The private ownership of the Mystery and China car parks are still unresolved obstacles for anything in that direction. Although the expansion plans with the water park featured a massive multi storey car park which could kill the need for them and potentially make the owners more likely to sell up if they loose their income. Or in an old 2004 expansion proposal a new car park would be taken over by the Mystery owners in return for using the current car park for expanding the park - maybe some kind of agreement like that would be struck.

The biggest mystery for me is why Hollywood boat tour hasn't been updated.
Because they want to remove it and any short term investment would be a waste when that money can be better spent on the new projects. Crazy Bats VR is a surprising exception but considering the quick delivery time and small budget, and how popular it seems to have been last summer it has likely paid off.
Undoubtedly the only reason Hollywood and Nighthawk/Crazy Bats still survive is that they want to replace them but can't do so because Fantissima their successful dinner show which runs September to June is in the same building and it was intended to go into a new theatre in the expansion. But that expansion obviously hasn't happened. Will be interesting to see what their contingency plan is.

As for the immediate park future it seems fairly certain that the "modernisation of China" will be the next project with Geister being replaced by a new e-ticket and presumably the food stalls street and offerings, and the mad house being refurbished and modernised. While I'm sure they will spend big to keep things new Phantasialand standard and a new dark ride would hopefully have a great budget, the rumour and general speculation is that the underground hall of Geister is kept and reused (although I wouldn't be surprised if it was expanded under the station and Colorado queue). So compared to the major civil engineering and structural work involved with Rookburgh, Klugheim and Chiapas it will likely be a smaller investment.

Then if Fantissima has been sorted there is the obvious big plot of land by removing Nighthawk and Hollywood for new indoor attractions/possibly even themed area? If it is two major rides again, maybe to stretch things out just like they did when the attractions first opened they might spread the openings out? (Space Center/Nighthawk 1988, Hollywood 1990) Gives them more time to sort the long term space problem. Additionally behind the current building there is the maze which they do have permission to build upon - the consultations with residents recommended something with garden terraces to block the visual harassment and sound proof the expansion across the road behind. Either gives them more space for the Nighthawk/Hollywood replacement or a separate addition itself.

There's also the strip of land behind the Berlin square and vertical garden wall between Chiapas and Klugheim that they own and presumably if enclosed could put a major attraction there. The garden wall and extension cattlepen queue of Taron has been said to be a temporary measure and that available land behind can't be a coincidence.

Silverado Theatre is awfully outdated and need of replacing/modernising. Colorado Adventure is likely to finally get a new queue with Geister's replacement however whether they refurbish the ride's theming (as was on the model plans for Chiapas) or not remains to be seen. Personally as a fan of the ride I'm hoping it does but considering the expansion attempts have not yet been fruitful and by the time the other possible projects are done the coaster will be nearly 30 years old most likely so it would be an understandable choice for replacing too. It is a considerable chunk of land especially with the theatre included.

Between Rookburgh and Wuze Town is a triangle of land with one occupied house still, its believed once the elderly resident there passes away the agreement is then the park will get the house which would allow them to use the full section of land. Wakobato needs to surely die, it was a nice idea for interactive fountains but with the residents noise complaints and poor delivery it didn't work. Behind it is an old guest house the park use to house their performers with a yard used for wintertraum decorations storage - while a poor location tucked away in the back there if they truly became more desperate for space for a new attraction something indoors could maybe go there?

They definitely have plans and ambitions but there seems to be many uncertain ways it could go and must a planning nightmare now they are running out of old rides to replace. Will certainly be interesting to see what the future brings.
 
As far as I am aware, one of Phantasialand's major long term strategies is to improve the reliability of Wuze Ball so that it opens more frequently. I am doubtful of whether they will be able to achieve this though, it seems that Intamin want nothing to do with the ride.
 
Because they want to remove it and any short term investment would be a waste when that money can be better spent on the new projects
The boat ride itself does seem worth keeping, slow moving boat rides are a classic family attraction. Its just the content that is poor on Hollywood Tour.
 
The boat ride itself does seem worth keeping, slow moving boat rides are a classic family attraction. Its just the content that is poor on Hollywood Tour.
Quite right. the ride system is solid, and that curving drop out of the station is pretty unique. Just strip out the scenery and start again.
 
The boat ride itself does seem worth keeping, slow moving boat rides are a classic family attraction. Its just the content that is poor on Hollywood Tour.
Not really. They want unique outstanding rides. Retheming a simple old boat ride is not quite the attractive interesting marketing image like building a new water ride or dark ride with a better ride system like Shanghai Pirates or Mack's new Rocking Boat system for example. Still can be a family ride but modern and more dynamic. And its a massive space that would be wasted in an extremely space limited park. Given they can't add stuff on the regular or have loads of rides in the park of all varieties, my guess is they are trying to compensate by then ensuring their small collection of attractions is the very best it can be.
For a simple quiet boat ride my preference would be they get rid of Wakobato and create a Merlin's Quest at Toverland like attraction. If the neighbours and environmentalists allowed for any kind of indoor section of course.
 
Will be very interesting to see if they have managed to make an exciting flying coaster next, that would be a brilliant breakthrough.
 
What i find interesting at Phantasialand is, I guess due to space, they simply don't have all the filler-charm rides that you get in a lot of the European parks.
 
They used to mind, but then spited most of them.

Needless to say, Klugheim is far superior to Silbermine, and the new Berlin area looks generally better than 1001 Nachts and the Onion Boats.
 
They have to build these grand areas and attractions for one reason: space.

That’s why you end up with immense and engrossing lands - they have to use every bit of space to its most. That’s doesn’t indicate a misalignment in strategy, it’s a necessity of their situation and really the only way they can make the park stand out.

The resort side is less advanced than say an EP, but again space restricts that considerably. They have squeezed a lot into the footprints of Matamba and Ling Bao. I agree there’s perhaps something they could do to expand that resort offering, but they do have Fantissima and the ERTs. The impression we’ve always had though, is that the park and their staff don’t really want you to stick around at night. That’s why they close some of the catering and rides earlier than the park, and everything else bang on closing time.
 
Top