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Ride Access Pass and Disabled Access - 2024 Discussion

Alphe86 said:
It’s frustrating to see people queue in the RAP cattle pen for Hyperia for 75 mins.. like. At this point why can’t they use the main queue? Needs to be more restrictive somehow
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That was presumably a unique situation. I don't think the majority of RAP users would knowingly enter a queue that was 75 minutes.

I remember once we rode Wickerman and it broke down during the pre-show. We didn't know how long we'd have to wait but leaving at that point would have been traumatic for our son who wouldn't understand so we set up camp on the floor outside with him sitting on my lap, an iPad, snacks etc (my wife had her bag as she was only queueing but not riding) and hoped for the best. Fortunately it turned out to be about 20 minutes (i noticed the ride was testing again after about 10 minutes so my enthusiast knowledge meant it was likely reopening soon) and we got our ride, then he was ready to go home after an exhausting queuing experience albeit happy he'd got the ride rather than devastated at leaving without it.

Obviously a ride breaking down is always a possibility and at a point we would have to give up but we wouldn't knowingly enter a queue that would be stationary and confined for a long period. Sometimes you get to the point of no return and have to ride it out and deal with the consequences after. Perhaps people in the lengthy Hyperia queue were in considerable discomfort but this was their only opportunity so they decided they would suffer the consequences after. For the main queue that would perhaps only be boredom but for RAP users it could be physical pain, soiled clothing etc.

Yes we all know people are taking advantage of the RAP eligibility and share the frustration but we shouldn't tar everyone with the same brush based on what you see in a moment. Like you say, that one ride could be the end of many peoples day.

Edit: Sorry if this sounds like i'm having a go at you personally, that's not my intention!
 
It’s not a unique occurrence though. Too often you see swathes of people joining a huge RAP queue when you can visibly see it’s gonna be a very long wait.
Scarefest last year the wickerman RAP had extended out of the queue and was clearly twice its maximum length (main queue was 120 mins) and you ask yourself..,these people imo don’t really need RAP
 
For many who use RAP it's the only choice.

If a wheelchair user goes into that queue are you going to think they don't need RAP? Or because of social views it's fine as they're in a wheelchair?

Especially given how bad Scarefest was for ride availability last year. Fairly certain most had to put up with it because otherwise they wouldn't get on anything.

But that links into the severe lack of supporting attractions the park has allowing people to spread out more on top of the RAP issues.
 
Bowser said:
That was presumably a unique situation. I don't think the majority of RAP users would knowingly enter a queue that was 75 minutes.

I remember once we rode Wickerman and it broke down during the pre-show. We didn't know how long we'd have to wait but leaving at that point would have been traumatic for our son who wouldn't understand so we set up camp on the floor outside with him sitting on my lap, an iPad, snacks etc (my wife had her bag as she was only queueing but not riding) and hoped for the best. Fortunately it turned out to be about 20 minutes (i noticed the ride was testing again after about 10 minutes so my enthusiast knowledge meant it was likely reopening soon) and we got our ride, then he was ready to go home after an exhausting queuing experience albeit happy he'd got the ride rather than devastated at leaving without it.

Obviously a ride breaking down is always a possibility and at a point we would have to give up but we wouldn't knowingly enter a queue that would be stationary and confined for a long period. Sometimes you get to the point of no return and have to ride it out and deal with the consequences after. Perhaps people in the lengthy Hyperia queue were in considerable discomfort but this was their only opportunity so they decided they would suffer the consequences after. For the main queue that would perhaps only be boredom but for RAP users it could be physical pain, soiled clothing etc.

Yes we all know people are taking advantage of the RAP eligibility and share the frustration but we shouldn't tar everyone with the same brush based on what you see in a moment. Like you say, that one ride could be the end of many peoples day.

Edit: Sorry if this sounds like i'm having a go at you personally, that's not my intention!
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That makes complete sense and I completely agree - in my opinion, having very long RAP queues do defeat the object of a queue assistance pass however at the same time, some things can't be prevented such as breakdowns.

I heard that Toxicator on opening day opened their RAP queue at 9am with the ride to open at 10am which sounds rather bizarre as it'd defeat the object to have RAP users queue for an hour although it's probably a lose lose situation as you can't easily open the standby queue without opening RAP.

It does seem to defeat the object of RAP to queue for over an hour for a ride when it's a similar amount of time in the standby queue when it's open.

It's not aimed at those who legitimately can't queue but it's people who can queue 75 minutes for Hyperia in a different queue.

I do think a virtual queue would be a solution for this as they can queue virtually but do something else in the park.

I completely get both sides of the coin in this scenario.
 
A 75min RAP queue should be flagged as a H&S issue - the health of those in the queue! I can only re-iterate that I think a digital RAP/queuing system would solve all these issues. Tap to being a virtual queue, then again when you arrive at the attraction at the allotted time. 5 min queue.
 
Smiley said:
A 75min RAP queue should be flagged as a H&S issue - the health of those in the queue! I can only re-iterate that I think a digital RAP/queuing system would solve all these issues. Tap to being a virtual queue, then again when you arrive at the attraction at the allotted time. 5 min queue.
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Does the digital system lock a ride out if too many guests have selected it causing the queue to be too long? Surely the system shouldn't allow 75 minutes worth of guests to all be selecting the same ride on RAP. Obviously with the paper system guests would need to use their own logic and see the queue is too long before joining a RAP queue just like the main queue line.
 
MrTowers said:
Does the digital system lock a ride out if too many guests have selected it causing the queue to be too long? Surely the system shouldn't allow 75 minutes worth of guests to all be selecting the same ride on RAP. Obviously with the paper system guests would need to use their own logic and see the queue is too long before joining a RAP queue just like the main queue line.
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Yes apparently Flight of the Sky Lion at LLW regularly reaches capacity in peak months and the queue closes. Then you have the slightly different problem that RAP users are expected to be constantly refreshing on their phones trying to nab a slot.
 
MrTowers said:
Does the digital system lock a ride out if too many guests have selected it causing the queue to be too long? Surely the system shouldn't allow 75 minutes worth of guests to all be selecting the same ride on RAP. Obviously with the paper system guests would need to use their own logic and see the queue is too long before joining a RAP queue just like the main queue line.
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The Blackpool system did a decade ago on the little Tamagochis.
 
Smiley said:
A 75min RAP queue should be flagged as a H&S issue - the health of those in the queue! I can only re-iterate that I think a digital RAP/queuing system would solve all these issues. Tap to being a virtual queue, then again when you arrive at the attraction at the allotted time. 5 min queue.
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Legoland and Chessington have the digital system and it's not without issues. It is superior though.

NuttySquirrel said:
Yes apparently Flight of the Sky Lion at LLW regularly reaches capacity in peak months and the queue closes. Then you have the slightly different problem that RAP users are expected to be constantly refreshing on their phones trying to nab a slot.
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I've been at Legoland and had 5 or more rides locked out, which isn't much fun. The issue there is RAP and FT share queues.

Vampire at Chessington regularly gets locked out too.

As you say, it can be somewhat frustrating having to be on phone duty all day. It would be more beneficial for AT as would at least stop people needlessly trekking long distances if they don't have a slot but in reality with their poor ride availability i imagine it would be an incredibly frustrating experience.
 
Disney do a pretty good job. Or you could offer "slots" a bit like FP. Of course this opens the issue if there aren't enough slots available; but then the issue is the number of eligible RAP users not the system!

The system is trivial to implement. What's probably "missing" right now is that the normal queue time does not have the RAP queue added. Every time a RAP guest adds themselves to the queue they are extending the "real queue", since once they are at the front of their virtual queue they should be next on.

This is Theme Park Management 101 - managing customer experience and expectation.
 
So to update on the RAP at Disneyland Paris.

Wow. The park could not be more accommodating. It really is incredible.

As mentioned we were given the "ambulant" version of the pass so this meant on every ride (except Crush's Coaster strangely) we could access them via the Fast Track entrance, meaning we didn't miss any pre-shows or theming aspects.

And as much as we jest on here about "free FastTrack", that's exactly what it is at DLP. You use those queues, there are no timeouts... but it works! It really does validate my opinion that poor operations/reliability are the primary driver of the problems at the UK parks. I didn't see a single ride go down at any point during our 2 days and outside of Crush which is a mess, the longest queue was 50 min but generally they were topping out at 30. Plus the good thing is the merge points from entry are relatively far back so you do still end up queuing for 5-10 minutes per ride but that gives you a chance to be immersed in the theming and witness the phenomenal operations.

I would say the only flaw with the system is, whilst you are also given priority access at restaurants and shops, there typically wasn't anyone to enforce this so you'd have to cut in the line yourself which is a bit awkward. Personally we didn't have to do this anyway so moot for us but i think if you're offering that it's a bit unfair to put people in that position.

My only other gripe was the toilets are quite poor for the neurodiverse. Good for non-ambulant as every single toilet has access in that regard but in terms of sensory the vast majority are noisy hand dryer hell with isolated cubicles few and far between. The best one we found is by the exit of Tower of Terror if anyone needs a quieter spot! So it would be nice if they could offer a few quiet spots.

But that's nitpicking on what is the greatest RAP system out there by a long shot.
 
Bowser said:
But that's nitpicking on what is the greatest RAP system out there by a long shot.
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That's what a RAP system should be 😉 But do you still get a RAP card to fill out with a return time?? I noted that long-term illnesses include Type 2 diabetes, which I find rather bizzare. That's an awful lot of people when you include up to 4 additional guests - might as well have a queue for the healthy people 😁
 
Why would having diabetes (of any type) be bizarre as a RAP requirement?


BTM is always the worst for RAP at DLP. So lucky it was closed to allowthe good VIBES ;)
 
Smiley said:
But do you still get a RAP card to fill out with a return time??
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No you can immediately rejoin the queue if you so desire. Perfect for my son as he loves to do his favourites repeatedly. In fact we did Star Tours 3 times in a row and got a different ride each time!

Benzin said:
BTM is always the worst for RAP at DLP. So lucky it was closed to allowthe good VIBES ;)
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Oh really, how so? I vaguely recall mention of a grimy queue area but now I’m assuming that wasn’t for ambulant access?

Crush was weird, you had to wait outside by the visible piece of track for 10-15 min (which would be rubbish had it not been sunny), then all got taken in an emergency exit, then another wait inside. Definite Merlin VIBES there. In fact the whole Studio Park had an air of someone giving Merlin £1bn and saying “build a Disney park”… some excellent rides but also some throughput nightmares and the magic not quite right.
 
Smiley said:
Diabetes is a completely manageable condition (especially with new tech) so people can live a completely normal life. Including it (and guests) you'll have more people in the RAP queue than the normal queue.
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"Normal life" meaning for Type 1 sufferers having to ensure they have their insulin on them at all times just in case?


All disabilities are "manageable". However many come with a multiple numbers of issues on the body, not to mention the potential side effects of whatever medication some might be on.


Bowser said:
Oh really, how so? I vaguely recall mention of a grimy queue area but now I’m assuming that wasn’t for ambulant access?
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BTM's queue is generally awful (possibly one of the worst I've ever experienced). If the ambulant route is the FastPass one then it's mostly alright, the one up the exit though seems to work in a similar fashion to Crush. Sit by the exit for a bit. Get walked up to station for more waiting. One of those designs where you can tell its retrofitted at cheapest possible cost.
 
rob666 said:
Diabetes is more usually a comorbidity, it comes along with another disease, often hidden, as well.
Very commonly tied in with heart conditions and hypertension.
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I'm not making light of diabetes. It's just when you include more and more things the RAP queue will be bigger than the normal one! FYI I can probably tick two of the "boxes" on the list, but wouldn't for a moment consider applying for a RAP/DAP. Others will milk it as much as they can.
 
Smiley said:
I can probably tick two of the "boxes" on the list, but wouldn't for a moment consider applying for a RAP/DAP. Others will milk it as much as they can.
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You've mentioned this before, on several occasions, but your white knighting doesn't further the conversation, or add any nuance. It comes across as disingenuous and reductive.

I think you've forgotten that we're discussing an accessibility aid, something which is designed to make people's lives a little easier. It's not an opportunity to virtue signal.
 
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