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Ride Access Pass Systems and Disabled Access (pre 2024)

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imanautie said:
My guess Oblivion

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They could just do the same as Disney, those who cannot wait in the main queue (again usually for autism reasons), join the fasttrack queue, showing the access pass return time instead of a fast track ticket. Or on Oblivion they could even just repurpose the single rider queue.
 
Benzin said:
In terms of someone mentioning about guests using the normal queue on some rides and a RAP queue on others. I direct them to Disneyland (which hopefully I will discover if they're system is any good later this year). As they have a similar issue of not being able to retrofit the classic rides to suit modern day requirements, yet everything new has accessible standard queues.
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Exactly, Disney in general, when building queue lines in the last 20 years has not used stairs, making the main queue accessible to most people. At Disneyland as you say there are some rides where it isn't possible to get a wheelchair through the main queue, but at Disneyworld they have wide switchbacks so wheelchairs can just use standby. For people who cannot wait in a line, they can get an access pass (wheelchair users don't need a pass, just turn up at the ride) so they can wait the queue time elsewhere and then join the fast track queue. There is generally no separate access queue and I don't think there is a significant amount (at Disneyworld anyway) of rides that need you to enter through the exit.
 
spinba11 said:
It will be interesting to see what @RoyJess has to say on this decision.
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Don't rope me into this ;)

spinba11 said:
This is the latest case where I find wheelchair users shoved to one side.
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I think you answered the crux of this argument

Unfortunately, as anyone relying on disable access will find is that the first thing that gets the chop is usually the disable facilities. For the average disable person, if these facilities are out of order, they simply use the non disable facilities, for a few people that 100% rely on these facilities, they have no choice but not to use the facilities and have to go without.

We are also in unprecedented times and this pandemic is not the fault of the Themeparks, all business are suffering from the fall out of this. This pandemic has affected many people with underlying health problems including the disabled hard.

Many disable people has been shielding and will still carry on shielding beyond the government advice. Deaf people have problems communication because they can't lip read due to face coverings. Blind people are finding it difficult to navigate around using social distancing. Disable bays (not Alton Towers, but at retail parks) have been shut off and being used for out door queuing.

I think if you can go out and get on one or two rides, count your self lucky, I personally don't look like I'll be visiting a themepark, Zoo or beach in the foreseeable future. You are lucky that themeparks are allowed to open, there are still some business that are still not allowed to reopen at the moment. A few weeks ago, I was lucky to have been able to get a online shopping slot, I felt like we won the lottery when we were able to purchase toilet roll, hand sanitiser etc..

The parks are opening on the basis that they are following government guidelines, we are in the middle of a deadly and highly infectious pandemic, however hard it is, we have to respect the decision that some RAP will not be available as some attractions for all won't be due to social distancing will be impossible because cause of the pandemic. I think we all have to be grateful for what is available, it was only a few months back that we though the idea of themeparks reopening here in the UK this season was very unlikely.

Make the most of what is available and what you can do, but remember, lockdown could be reverse at any moment if cases rises again. I'm sure if this pandemic continues, the park will find ways to make ensure that all rides will eventually be inclusive to all RAP user by making changes.

I think during these unprecedented times, we also have to give the themeparks some slack, they are doing their best to cater for all and at the same time keeping afloat as the lockdown has hit most businesses very hard.
 
RoyJess said:
I think during these unprecedented times, we also have to give the themeparks some slack, they are doing their best to cater for all and at the same time keeping afloat as the lockdown has hit most businesses very hard.
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I think this is the right attitude in general but it would be prudent to monitor this and ensure the temporary changes don't become permanent and start excluding people in 2021.

Also if they manage to operate Fast Track but not allow for people to have access who can't wait in the main queue that is wrong. If you can pay to fast track but not get an access pass for some rides there is something wrong.
 
jon81uk said:
I think this is the right attitude in general but it would be prudent to monitor this and ensure the temporary changes don't become permanent and start excluding people in 2021.

Also if they manage to operate Fast Track but not allow for people to have access who can't wait in the main queue that is wrong. If you can pay to fast track but not get an access pass for some rides there is something wrong.
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I believe Fasttrack won't be operating this year either right? Absolutely though disabled facilities should always come before fasttrack.
 
imanautie said:
THORPE are saying they will be offering 2 rides before 11 to hotel guests.

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If they can offer that facility, they should be able to offer RAP for every ride too. I don't think they've announced any cutbacks to RAP yet though?
 
speedy said:
If they can offer that facility, they should be able to offer RAP for every ride too. I don't think they've announced any cutbacks to RAP yet though?
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Nope but it's the THORPE style to leave things to the last minute.

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jon81uk said:
I think this is the right attitude in general but it would be prudent to monitor this and ensure the temporary changes don't become permanent and start excluding people in 2021.

Also if they manage to operate Fast Track but not allow for people to have access who can't wait in the main queue that is wrong. If you can pay to fast track but not get an access pass for some rides there is something wrong.
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I can't see what the concern is. Companies have to provide access for all by law by making reasonable adjustments.

The only time access is not required to be provided by law, that is if alterations need to be made to a listed building and planning permission don't allow for it.

Not providing access for all on rides is nothing new, some people can't ride due to H&S. This has be the case for many years especially if you are non ambulant or have artificial limbs.

In the current crisis, social distancing is a H&S concern, so where as social distancing in not viable, especially where as the RAP access make uses of Exit paths and the park are unable to make reasonable adjustment without breaching the social distancing rules, then the park are under no obligation to open up RAP on certain rides. This may be the case until this pandemic has come to an end, either with a successful treatment or vaccine. So these rules can still be in place until 2021 and beyond, but once this pandemic is over, then the parks will have to revert back to the Law regarding access for all and if they don't they will be breaking the law.

Reading back over this thread, it is clearly clear that the RAP was no longer viable due to the amount of people using it which meant that disable riders where spending just as much or even longer time queuing in the RAP queue as those in the main queue. We know that in the pre-Covid state that RAP wasn't working for all as some people have resorted to purchasing Fast Track as an alternative to using RAP, and when someone is prepared to pay a premium for Fast track as oppose to using RAP which is free, goes to show that the system is clearly not working and serving those that it was intended for. So maybe this pandemic will force the parks to rethink it's strategy and policy on the RAP making it fairer for all, especially for those that genuinely need to use RAP and not for those that are simply treating it as a free fast track.
 
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RoyJess said:
Reading back over this thread, it is clearly clear that the RAP was no longer viable due to the amount of people using it which meant that disable riders where spending just as much or even longer time queuing in the RAP queue as those in the main queue. We know that in the pre-Covid state that RAP wasn't working for all as some people have resorted to purchasing Fast Track as an alternative to using RAP, and when someone is prepared to pay a premium for Fast track as oppose to using which is free, goes to show that the system is clearly not working and serving those that it was intended for. So maybe this pandemic will force the parks to rethink it's strategy and policy on the RAP making it fairer for all, especially for those that genuinely need to use RAP and not for those that are simply treating it as a free fast track.
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For those who are unable to wait in the main queue (ie when its not a mobility issue), I would have thought it would be fine to enter then fast track queue, once they have waited the appropriate amount of time elsewhere. I don't need to use it, but my understanding is that if the main queue is two hours, they can enter the RAP entrance and then can't ride something else for two hours. Therefore it shouldn't make any significant difference if they enter via the fast track entrance?

One of the rides at Chessington that is unable to offer an access pass is new for 2020, how could they have designed and opened something this year that cannot offer equal access to all without causing distancing issues? I can understand on some attractions that are older (Nemesis is a good example) that they have to use "enter via the exit". But for brand new things built this year, surely a more elegant solution should have been provided.

For those with mobility issues of course the alternative entrance needs to be level or ramped so the fast track entrance won't always work, but newer rides could have been designed with level access fast track.

In terms of ensuring the legal right to access does return when its safe to do so, I get what you mean that they do have a legal obligation to offer equal access, but that doesn't mean they will definitely reintroduce it and there is no harm in people calling them out when they fail to offer it.
 
jon81uk said:
For those who are unable to wait in the main queue (ie when its not a mobility issue), I would have thought it would be fine to enter then fast track queue, once they have waited the appropriate amount of time elsewhere. I don't need to use it, but my understanding is that if the main queue is two hours, they can enter the RAP entrance and then can't ride something else for two hours. Therefore it shouldn't make any significant difference if they enter via the fast track entrance?
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It then sends out the message that RAP is a free fast track. I don't know the reasoning behind the parks decision, but if you are using RAP you need to be identify for evacuation reasons as they are only allowed to sit in certain seats. It's going to confuse things if they have to hold up the fast track queue line as only one disable group is allowed to ride per dispatch.

jon81uk said:
For those with mobility issues of course the alternative entrance needs to be level or ramped so the fast track entrance won't always work, but newer rides could have been designed with level access fast track.
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Level access takes up a lot of space, as ramps have to be of certain gradient. A cattle pen type queue line will allow for a more guests to queue in a smaller space. Take hex disable ramp inside the octagon room, this is a two level ramp that runs the the full length of the octagon room twice for whereas the steps only takes up a fraction of the space.

Also if you aboard the ride from one side and exit the opposite, a wheelchair user will need to board and exit the same side as you can't carry a wheelchair (especially a power or electric chair/scooter) across the ride track.

jon81uk said:
but that doesn't mean they will definitely reintroduce it
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They have to, otherwise they will be breaking the law.
 
For many of the reasons outlined above, it is often more practical to have wheelchair access via the exit than to provide a dedicated wheelchair entrance. For minor attractions it doesn't make sense to have separate main/FT/RAP entrances, so RAP will just be enter via exit. Normally this wouldn't be a problem but at the moment it may not be workable, this seems to be what's happened with CWoAs new log flume.

As an aside - does this mean there is currently no wheelchair access to the likes of Dragons Fury? Normally wheelchair users have to navigate the exit ramp which is about as narrow as Rattlesnake's
 
Yes but it's got stairs in it, I'm referring specifically to wheelchair users.

Edit: As with Chessington, access restrictions at BPB will apply to a range of rides (generally those that have long/narrow exit paths). E band users will not be able to access Airbender, Avalanche, Blue Flyer, Dipper, Infusion, Nick Streak, Rev & Steeplechase. That's a significant chunk of the major rides, far worse than Chessington's restrictions. Had they not built a new speedy pass entrance this year it seems likely PMBO would have been on that list too.
 
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John said:
Yes but it's got stairs in it, I'm referring specifically to wheelchair users.

Edit: As with Chessington, access restrictions at BPB will apply to a range of rides (generally those that have long/narrow exit paths). E band users will not be able to access Airbender, Avalanche, Blue Flyer, Dipper, Infusion, Nick Streak, Rev & Steeplechase. That's a significant chunk of the major rides, far worse than Chessington's restrictions. Had they not built a new speedy pass entrance this year it seems likely PMBO would have been on that list too.
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I’m not surprised about the ride list for Blackpool. Certain rides are not able to adapted during this situation to suit rap or anything like that. But it’s only for a few months so it’s no harm I guess.
 
I have no idea nor would guess how long social distancing in queues will last I’m just trying to be optimistic that start of next season it should return to some sort of normality.
 
John said:
Yes but it's got stairs in it, I'm referring specifically to wheelchair users.

Edit: As with Chessington, access restrictions at BPB will apply to a range of rides (generally those that have long/narrow exit paths). E band users will not be able to access Airbender, Avalanche, Blue Flyer, Dipper, Infusion, Nick Streak, Rev & Steeplechase. That's a significant chunk of the major rides, far worse than Chessington's restrictions. Had they not built a new speedy pass entrance this year it seems likely PMBO would have been on that list too.
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Is this all because the disabled person would be less than 2m from the people leaving the ride, while they wait to board? Or is there another operational issue I'm not aware of?
 
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