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Ride Access Pass Systems and Disabled Access (pre 2024)

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Skyscraper said:
Currently the plastic RAP photocards are valid for 3 years I think, and you either collect the paper timecard or log onto R&R once on-park. Would therefore be difficult to limit the number being used each day.
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That bit seems relatively simple to amend, you would need your RAP photo card and a pre-book RAP ‘ticket’ for the day in question before they would either issue the paper timecard or allow access to R&R (via some kind of code/password etc). Similar to how an annual pass holder needs their pass and a park reservation (in theory) to enter the park.
 
AT86 said:
That bit seems relatively simple to amend, you would need your RAP photo card and a pre-book RAP ‘ticket’ for the day in question before they would either issue the paper timecard or allow access to R&R (via some kind of code/password etc). Similar to how an annual pass holder needs their pass and a park reservation (in theory) to enter the park.
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Ah I see, good point! That could work actually, as long as it was well publicised to reduce the chance of people being caught out.
 
Think would also come under discrimination because you're limiting a particular group of people just because they qualify for RAP.

Issuing a finite amount would be the same for definite.

I'd imagine the park would come under immense fire for any "park refused me entry because of my disability" stories.

tayspru said:
It all boils down to the fact that there is evidently a large number of guests who allegedly aren’t capable of queueing are now routinely standing in queues that range from 30 minutes to 1 hour

Maybe it’s the system, but those guests are demonstrably more capable of queueing than they might let on or they would simply not be in said queue
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Again though, this stems from issues with the system and people with RAP often not having an alternative viable option. Comes under the "putting up with it" situation that the standby queue has to do. Or spend on Fastrack (which we've done at parks where their equivalent system is non-existent or awkwardly implemented).

Standing for 30 minutes in the Wickerman RAP queue is different from the standby queue.
 
Benzin said:
Think would also come under discrimination because you're limiting a particular group of people just because they qualify for RAP.

Issuing a finite amount would be the same for definite.

I'd imagine the park would come under immense fire for any "park refused me entry because of my disability" stories.
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I am not suggesting that those guests can’t enter the park, but that the number of RAP passes issued on peak days is limited. However I accept for many there would be no point coming to the park if they couldn’t get RAP. The other side of the coin of course is that today they might come to the park get RAP issued and then still not get anything done because the length of the RAP queues are too much. What’s worse?

I was trying to think of a similar scenario for other things in life but struggling a little. Could it be compared to a concert for example that only has a certain amount of accessible seating? There might be general tickets on sale, but the disabled seating is booked up - I assume that doesn’t cause any legal issues?
 
AT86 said:
I am not suggesting that those guests can’t enter the park, but that the number of RAP passes issued on peak days is limited. However I accept for many there would be no point coming to the park if they couldn’t get RAP. The other side of the coin of course is that today they might come to the park get RAP issued and then still not get anything done because the length of the RAP queues are too much. What’s worse?

I was trying to think of a similar scenario for other things in life but struggling a little. Could it be compared to a concert for example that only has a certain amount of accessible seating? There might be general tickets on sale, but the disabled seating is booked up - I assume that doesn’t cause any legal issues?
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I'm a fairly frequent concert goer, and there's usually multiple ways that gig venues can accommodate disabled visitors. Some offer early access into the venue, some offer a raised area, a specific seated areas or specific areas that are sectioned off that are less crowded. Some offer a combination - it usually depends on the size of the venue and whether they offer seating to begin with.

It's a pretty controversial topic because a lot of the same issues pop up - disabled seating often does get booked up and therefore isn't always available for everyone, regular queuers get frustrated with barrier being taken up by disabled patrons, disabled patrons are able to take "too many people" with them into disabled areas. As a example, I witnessed one concert queue absolutely kicking off when the entire barrier next to stage was taken up with disabled patrons who were allowed in early, because the concert venue didn't have any disabled seating left to offer them and the next best step was a barrier to lean on. I'd argue disabled access is an even uglier discussion when it comes to gigs.
 
Perhaps instead of limiting RAP guests per day, limit RAP guests per hour per individual ride/attraction through a digitised system that works out the logistics to avoid queues and backlogs. Ideally, you could do it with an app/card/barcode system where computers do all the work. It wouldn't be perfect (a breakdown resulting in a backlog), but it would work better than what is there currently (paper and biros that are ignored/lost).
 
30 minutes standing in the RAP does come along with the handy benefit that you’re not standing in the 2 hour main queue I suppose
 
AT86 said:
Fastrack is limited in number, because of course if everyone has a fastrack ticket then it would become pointless.

It appears that with RAP they issue unlimited number per day as long as people reach the required criteria, resulting in overwhelming the system and disadvantaging those it is designed to help.

Would it be legal for the park to require prebooking of RAP passes and limiting the number bookable per day? That way they can control numbers just as they do with fastrack - reducing the pressure on the queues and improving the experience.

I accept this isn’t a perfect solution, but on the surface at least appears to be an improvement on the current situation. What I am not sure on is if they are legally allowed to set such a limit under equality legislation.
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No, that would be discriminatory, and illegal.
You can come if you are fit and well, but if you need additional support you can't come in.
Not a good look.
 
Skyscraper said:
Yes, but you're still standing still for a period of time.
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Depends on why that person is in the RAP queue though. Mobility issues kinda makes Wickerman a burden for example with a number of steps throughout.

When using a wheelchair we don't have the option of the standby queue.

tayspru said:
30 minutes standing in the RAP does come along with the handy benefit that you’re not standing in the 2 hour main queue I suppose
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I'm sure most people would trade a life long disability to be able to have the opportunity not to be blamed for a poorly operated system that is designed to assist them.
 
Nobody is blaming anyone with a genuine need for the offering, but those with the most genuine need have stated many times they simply don’t visit at busy times of year as they can’t cope with the sheer volume of RAP users.

The fact is RAP is issued because the person (in theory) would come under serious distress and be negatively impacted by queueing. Yet what we have now is a whole host of said people waiting in very long queues. So either a whole lot of people are putting themselves through serious trauma for the sake of a few minutes experience, or just maybe there’s a large number of people who’s needs are being exaggerated - or even fabricated - for that queuing advantage. No ride is worth the potential trauma of a queue that the RAP is supposedly issued for.

A common part of trip reviews on Merlin Facebook groups is “it was really busy today, even with RAP”

Way too many feel that RAP should allow more rides than he every day guest. Therein lies the desirability of the offering and the issue.

The new application system should have required everyone to reapply under the new requirements.
 
Boothy said:
Stop generalising RAP users as chancers who are abusing the system. Some of the comments in here are awful.
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Literally in the above post have drawn a clear distinction, there are:

Group A) those who need RAP most, who now sadly avoid the park at peak teams due to the heavy prevelance of …

Group B) those who have tenuous claim to RAP who will rock up knowing that their queue time of 30 minutes or more is managable and less than the 2 hour regular queue
 
Who are you to say there are people doing option B? Do you know any actual examples or is it just bad parenting as was suggested earlier by others?
 
Boothy said:
Who are you to say there are people doing option B? Do you know any actual examples or is it just bad parenting as was suggested earlier by others?
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Ok let’s pretend it’s not happening instead and there is no abuse of the system. This reluctance to accept there are a large number of unscrupulous individuals that take advantage of systems designed to help those in need is staggering.

Incidentally, out of curiosity, I applied via nimbus for a RAP pass a few weeks ago. I have no documentation, and no need for RAP, just the “advice” via posting on a Merlin RAP page on FB

I was recently accepted. The full evidence has been compiled and sent to Merlin directly as it makes one thing abundantly clear:

The system does not work and is still up for abuse
 
I'm still waiting for your evidence that people are abusing the system en masse and don't actually need a RAP
 
Boothy said:
I'm still waiting for your evidence that people are abusing the system en masse and don't actually need a RAP
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That enough people are standing in a 1 hour queue - and not leaving due to being over stimulated or distressed - suggests they may not actually have as huge an issue with queueing as they claim. The fact the queue remains at 1 hour shows people aren’t leaving it
 
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