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Ride Access Pass Systems and Disabled Access (pre 2024)

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Boothy said:
Must only be Merlin UK theme park guests who pretend to be disabled to get a free pass(!)
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In fact that’s an excellent point, I’m pretty sure the European Merlin parks use the same RAP system without any of the associated issues that “the system” cause in the U.K.
 
Ultimately, I think disability laws are very different abroad. I seem to remember hearing that Germany, for instance, has much less legislation in place requiring reasonable adjustments than the UK.

It is an odd one, though. Europa Park had very little RAP on my recent visit (one group every few cycles, perhaps), and I’ve never noticed much (if any) RAP on various visits to the Florida parks either. Heck, even non-Merlin UK parks don’t seem to have it to anywhere near the same extent.

Put it this way; I have been to 19 different theme parks in the UK, the USA and Germany, and Merlin’s UK parks are the only theme parks where I have ever seen rides built with purpose-built RAP entrances.

I do not know for the life of me why the UK Merlin parks struggle so much with it. It’s not like Germany or the USA are likely to have less disabled people than Britain, and I also can’t imagine that the Merlin parks get a substantially greater percentage of disabled visitors than any other UK theme park.
 
Rob said:
What I always find amazing is that you go to pretty much any theme park in Europe and these RAP queues that get so long at Merlin parks in the UK are just not there/not a problem...!
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In fairness, much as I love Europa Park, their RAP system is at the other end of the scale; basically non-existent, representing a much more 'make do' attitude and conservatism towards marginalised people across Germany. In Italy, Gardaland's disabled access is also much more limited than Merlin parks in the UK, and staff there have been known to ask people to leave coaster trains before dispatch having spotted facial scarring (!!)

Incidentally, while rollercoaster access might leave much to be desired, disabled people in Germany are not treated with the same disgust and suspicion as they have been under the UK government over the past fifteen years.

RAP users having to avoid certain times of year as the RAP queues are too long is perhaps the most ironic route to equality I've ever heard of. But at least everyone is having a miserable, frustrated experience. :confused:
 
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Boothy said:
Stop generalising RAP users as chancers who are abusing the system. Some of the comments in here are awful.
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This is getting silly now !!!

Not a single person has even said this. Not one. Some people though, myself included, have raised the point that there are people abusing that system and spoiling it for those that really need it. Nobody has said that everyone who uses it is a chancer.

Talk about getting offended at something that nobody said.
 
Most of the German parks seem to almost hide behind the TUV as a sort of "if you're disabled you can't ride" thing. Haven't had a chance to use the Europa equivalent yet but Phantasialand and Movie Park seemed to follow this a few years ago. Might have change now mind.

Liseberg was great, 2 of their scare mazes were even advertised as disabled friendly (to a degree, the Zombie one was until there was the sponge floor and inflatable squeeze). I'd probably say they were certainly the best accessible park in terms of wheelchair to platform access (I.e. minimal steps).

Denmark was mixed, Tivoli had no problems but Bakken was very anti-wheelchair going up the exit (even though after checking it was the system in place). But Bakken is an awful place anyway so should've expected that.

Merlin parks are the only ones where I've tended to see a high number of people using it to such a degree it is detrimental. Weirdly given that none of the other parks we've used it have a timer system as well.

Think it does come back to a cultural thing. Be it those looking to cheat the system through the doctors letters for years (a well known trick on the Facebook groups) or that the UK is far more open about the accessibility side of things in comparison to European parks.

Either way generalisation and belittling those who require it do not help anyone. Much like with the current political landscape, scapegoats are easier to blame than those actually in charge of the system.
 
Benzin said:
Most of the German parks seem to almost hide behind the TUV as a sort of "if you're disabled you can't ride" thing. Haven't had a chance to use the Europa equivalent yet but Phantasialand and Movie Park seemed to follow this a few years ago. Might have change now mind.

Liseberg was great, 2 of their scare mazes were even advertised as disabled friendly (to a degree, the Zombie one was until there was the sponge floor and inflatable squeeze). I'd probably say they were certainly the best accessible park in terms of wheelchair to platform access (I.e. minimal steps).

Denmark was mixed, Tivoli had no problems but Bakken was very anti-wheelchair going up the exit (even though after checking it was the system in place). But Bakken is an awful place anyway so should've expected that.

Merlin parks are the only ones where I've tended to see a high number of people using it to such a degree it is detrimental. Weirdly given that none of the other parks we've used it have a timer system as well.

Think it does come back to a cultural thing. Be it those looking to cheat the system through the doctors letters for years (a well known trick on the Facebook groups) or that the UK is far more open about the accessibility side of things in comparison to European parks.

Either way generalisation and belittling those who require it do not help anyone. Much like with the current political landscape, scapegoats are easier to blame than those actually in charge of the system.
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With Volcano Bay, a lot of the slide towers actually have wheelchair lifts attached to them, which isn't something you see at a lot of parks.
 
Boothy said:
Stop generalising RAP users as chancers who are abusing the system. Some of the comments in here are awful.
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Nobody has said this and you are fanning flames that are not there.

There are clearly two distinctions.

Group 1. People who are legitimately unable to queue due to physical and/or other impairment, and by so doing for any length of time would cause them and their carer(s) undue stress and/or pain.

Group 2. People who are able to queue, and most likely have to in many other walks of life, but due to the way that the ATR system has lacked rigour in recent years, find that they fit the bracket for a ride access pass due to a relatively common and/or less severe issue and take advantage. This spreads.

RAP quantities have snowballed in the past 3 or 4 years - this is fact. Alton Towers have significantly reduced their own Fastrack sales (an important revenue stream) since 2021 due to the fact that RAP is now such high volumes and if they didn't do this, main queue lines simply would grind to a halt (as can be seen to some extent at Chessington where a combination of Fastrack sales, high RAP volume and low throughput makes life hell on busier days).

The result is a system in which those in group 1 are now unfairly discriminated against due to the lack of rigour applied to the entire system.
 
I have seen both sides of this argument and it’s not an easy nut to crack.

I myself am not disabled (dyslexic but that doesn’t stop me from queueing), but my partners sister is very disabled (both physically and neuro divergent) and she loves theme parks.

Now as much as some would like to suggest there is limited abuse of the system unfortunately there is. As people point out a lot of the people who use RAP are regular attenders so you start to recognise them. My biggest frustration is you will see people with RAP get their one hour return time on their card and then spend that time in another queue, get off the ride they queued for normally, go jump straight on another ride with their RAP, get their next return time then join another main queue whilst they wait. These people are queueing in the main queues, ergo they don’t need RAP.

Personally I couldn’t care less whether I get on rides at Towers as I go so often it’s not the end of the world, but these people then extend the queue time for people who genuinely need RAP like my partners sister. If we tried to get her on Wickerman after dark at scarefest we would have no chance as she couldn’t tolerate the physical wait in the overinflated RAP entrance. So she misses out!

That said people are very quick to assume everyone with a hidden disability is playing that trick when they are not. Ultimately it’s the system that needs changing.
 
tayspru said:
Or British exceptionalist attitude, given that Merlin parks are by far the most frequently visited in the U.K.
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Are you seriously suggesting this is a British thing? Imagine if you were saying that about another countries population, would that be racist? This isn't 'British exceptionalist attitude' at all. If people are faking being disabled no matter what country they're from they're awful people.
 
It’s certainly the case that there are not RAP queues of this nature/length in other European parks (or certainly not that I’ve seen). You can draw a few conclusions from that, either: -

- European parks don’t cater for RAP in the same way.
- European parks manage RAP systems in a better way.
- There are less people requiring RAP in European parks.
- There are less people abusing RAP in European parks.

Of course more than one of these things can be true at the same time. It’s interesting to draw the comparison though and attempt to understand the reasons for the difference.
 
tayspru said:
The culture here is me first and screw everyone else. Always has been
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And that's not racist at all....
I would say the culture here is often the exact opposite of this, however you are making a massive overgeneralisation and using unfair stereotypes to suite your point.
 
RAP is a weird one in that I think it’s tough to pinpoint a reason why the Merlin parks struggle so much with it compared to everywhere else, and it’s also tough to pinpoint a solution.

I’ve heard a few people suggest that it’s a UK thing, but I’m not sure that’s necessarily the case because none of the country’s non-Merlin parks struggle to anywhere near the same extent. I get that they are less visited, but surely with the ride throughputs being lower and the parks being smaller (on average), any RAP issues would still present in a similar way on busy days?

It is a conundrum, for sure… Merlin parks are the only places where I’ve ever known RAP to be such a perceived issue. I’ve never really heard it discussed at all in the context of just about any other park in the world; I’m sure it exists in some form at most parks, but it only seems to be considered problematic at Merlin parks.

No non-Merlin UK park has perceived RAP struggles to the same extent. No European park has perceived RAP struggles to the same extent. As far as I’m aware, no US park has perceived RAP struggles to the same extent. It seems to be a problem that’s very exclusive to UK Merlin parks rather than one that’s endemic in parks across the world, which makes it an awful lot harder to solve.
 
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We do have an inwardly negative culture in this county. There is a general mood, facilitated by the way the media works and various biases that it's better everywhere else. Talk to people from other places and you soon realise they have the same problems, often worse across Europe. Work in Europe and it won't be long before you hear casual racism in the work place or people using archaic phrases for types of additional needs as insults and so on. This is in white collar, very professional environments. Anyway that's more of a general point around "it's the British". People are people - put them in the same environment and you will soon get the same behaviours.

From my personal experience RAP is very much limited to physical outward disabilities, at least in continental Europe. We don't do much though because the travel isn't tolerated and I get fast track as I can't risk a shutdown writing off a trip. I'll own up to sitting crying in the toilet on our first ever visit to PA where we had planned and saved for a year to have to leave after an hour because my daughter couldn't cope. With this sort of reality you might start to see why people's backs get up with generalisations. Yes I know it's not aimed at us but we get it. You see us in the street you would say "no issue - they can queue" without any clue how we are treading on ice constantly trying to get through.

The abuse on is interesting. I hadn't considered people full on having a normal day then using the card each time it expires too. Confession - we have done it, but only for walk on stuff like the barrels. Which even then it's a fair point it's probably not cool.

Ultimately where ever you are, create a system that can be abused and it will be abused.

The only one I can think of that can't is one where everyone has a secure device and checks in at the ride gate then moves into the buffer queue when their group number is called. Any other RAP card, Reserve and Ride etc can be fiddled in the same way. BPB can do it with their system potentially. It's likely just not sustainable to make everyone use a device or everyone wear a certain band so that RAP can be distinguished etc.

Side note - I don't know what it's like now but BPB was just a card a few years back with no time limits. Literally an unlimited fast track. Never saw anyone but us using it!
 
Nick🎢 said:
We do have an inwardly negative culture in this county. There is a general mood, facilitated by the way the media works and various biases that it's better everywhere else. Talk to people from other places and you soon realise they have the same problems, often worse across Europe. Work in Europe and it won't be long before you hear casual racism in the work place or people using archaic phrases for types of additional needs as insults and so on. This is in white collar, very professional environments. Anyway that's more of a general point around "it's the British". People are people - put them in the same environment and you will soon get the same behaviours.

From my personal experience RAP is very much limited to physical outward disabilities, at least in continental Europe. We don't do much though because the travel isn't tolerated and I get fast track as I can't risk a shutdown writing off a trip. I'll own up to sitting crying in the toilet on our first ever visit to PA where we had planned and saved for a year to have to leave after an hour because my daughter couldn't cope. With this sort of reality you might start to see why people's backs get up with generalisations. Yes I know it's not aimed at us but we get it. You see us in the street you would say "no issue - they can queue" without any clue how we are treading on ice constantly trying to get through.

The abuse on is interesting. I hadn't considered people full on having a normal day then using the card each time it expires too. Confession - we have done it, but only for walk on stuff like the barrels. Which even then it's a fair point it's probably not cool.

Ultimately where ever you are, create a system that can be abused and it will be abused.

The only one I can think of that can't is one where everyone has a secure device and checks in at the ride gate then moves into the buffer queue when their group number is called. Any other RAP card, Reserve and Ride etc can be fiddled in the same way. BPB can do it with their system potentially. It's likely just not sustainable to make everyone use a device or everyone wear a certain band so that RAP can be distinguished etc.

Side note - I don't know what it's like now but BPB was just a card a few years back with no time limits. Literally an unlimited fast track. Never saw anyone but us using it!
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Just to be clear. Fair is not always equal and with all the other limitations on life people with disabilities have I do not begrudge people with RAP going on a walk on ride whilst virtually queueing for something else with their RAP.

My issue is when you see someone physically queue 50min for Oblivion then walk straight into Smiler with their RAP pass, the 50 min Oblivion queue demonstrates said person can queue.
 
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Nick🎢 said:
We do have an inwardly negative culture in this county. There is a general mood, facilitated by the way the media works and various biases that it's better everywhere else. Talk to people from other places and you soon realise they have the same problems, often worse across Europe. Work in Europe and it won't be long before you hear casual racism in the work place or people using archaic phrases for types of additional needs as insults and so on. This is in white collar, very professional environments. Anyway that's more of a general point around "it's the British". People are people - put them in the same environment and you will soon get the same behaviours.

From my personal experience RAP is very much limited to physical outward disabilities, at least in continental Europe. We don't do much though because the travel isn't tolerated and I get fast track as I can't risk a shutdown writing off a trip. I'll own up to sitting crying in the toilet on our first ever visit to PA where we had planned and saved for a year to have to leave after an hour because my daughter couldn't cope. With this sort of reality you might start to see why people's backs get up with generalisations. Yes I know it's not aimed at us but we get it. You see us in the street you would say "no issue - they can queue" without any clue how we are treading on ice constantly trying to get through.

The abuse on is interesting. I hadn't considered people full on having a normal day then using the card each time it expires too. Confession - we have done it, but only for walk on stuff like the barrels. Which even then it's a fair point it's probably not cool.

Ultimately where ever you are, create a system that can be abused and it will be abused.

The only one I can think of that can't is one where everyone has a secure device and checks in at the ride gate then moves into the buffer queue when their group number is called. Any other RAP card, Reserve and Ride etc can be fiddled in the same way. BPB can do it with their system potentially. It's likely just not sustainable to make everyone use a device or everyone wear a certain band so that RAP can be distinguished etc.

Side note - I don't know what it's like now but BPB was just a card a few years back with no time limits. Literally an unlimited fast track. Never saw anyone but us using it!
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Blackpool still uses a card, the system seems to change every year.
The staff add the current queue length time to the current time, and write that time on your card for your next ride entry.
Up to 2 others can be added for a fiver each, on top of your "escort" who is free.
It's function depends on the staff having a pen, that actually works. 50% failure rate last time I used it.
 
Dave said:
Just to be clear. Fair is not always equal and with all the other limitations on life people with disabilities have I do not begrudge people with RAP going on a walk on ride whilst virtually queueing for something else with their RAP.

My issue is when you see someone virtually queue 50min for Oblivion then walk straight into Smiler with their RAP pass, the 50 min Oblivion queue demonstrates said person can queue.
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Totally clear Dave wasn't taken that way. I just didn't want to be a hypocrite and be transparent about what we have and haven't done.

I am pretty shocked people are doing that. To what extent is it happening objectively Vs anecdotally - would be interesting but I suspect we will never know.
 
The main change whether electronic or paper based that would work is that you go to the ride entrance to get your return time rather than given a time for the next ride at the exit of the previous one.

The reason is at the moment 400 RAP pass holders can come off rides during fireworks at 5pm, they get their return time for 6pm but now go wait for the fireworks. At 7.30pm 400 RAP groups now all go to Wickerman and chaos reigns.

If all 400 RAP users had to get their return time at 7.30pm then the RAP demand would be more evenly spread out.
 
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