Ride Access Pass Systems and Disabled Access (pre 2024)

[Blackhole_Sun]

Well that'll go down well.

In busy times you would be lucky to do them more than once anyway?

 

[Benzin]

In busy times you would be lucky to do them more than once anyway?

That's a failing of the parks then.

Paultons have this as their solution (1 go per major ride). Though when visiting never had an issue beyond trying to get up the exits with a wheelchair, but might be more prevalent in Peppa Pig Land though.

 

[Craig]

I don't agree with that. If the original RAP process was working as it should do (i.e. staff following the right procedures) then a RAP user should still only be getting on the same amount of attractions. As they'd still have to wait the same queue time on each attraction.

To take this new system to an extreme (I know) just because you have a disability it now means you can only go on a ride once a day, where as a standard guest could ride that ride all day if they wanted to.

That's not an equal opportunity, saying because you have a disability you can only ride once today. You should be able to ride the ride as many times as a standard guest should be able to.

And this is the issue, it’s a compromise. On a busy day I don’t have a chance of doing every one of those rides in a standard queue. So you equal things out by allowing RAP guests to only ride once on each. That reduces the queue time for everyone and allows everyone to have a better day out.

Should it be introduced every day? I’d probably say no, but on peak days I think it’s a fair compromise considering the capacity limitations the park has on many rides at present.

 

[Sambiasso]

And this is the issue, it’s a compromise. On a busy day I don’t have a chance of doing every one of those rides in a standard queue. So you equal things out by allowing RAP guests to only ride once on each. That reduces the queue time for everyone and allows everyone to have a better day out.

Should it be introduced every day? I’d probably say no, but on peak days I think it’s a fair compromise considering the capacity limitations the park has on many rides at present.

There's a dedicated thread for RAP can we keep this thread CWOA discussion only please

 

[Skyscraper]

Well that'll go down well.

Apparently it's only temporary because several RAP queues reached 60 minutes +.

 

[Craig]

There's a dedicated thread for RAP can we keep this thread CWOA discussion only please

There is also a dedicated report button

Suitably moved anyway!

 

[Sambiasso]

There is also a dedicated report button

Suitably moved anyway!

Course it got moved, one rule for mods one rule for everyone else.

 

[jon81uk]

And this is the issue, it’s a compromise. On a busy day I don’t have a chance of doing every one of those rides in a standard queue. So you equal things out by allowing RAP guests to only ride once on each. That reduces the queue time for everyone and allows everyone to have a better day out.

Should it be introduced every day? I’d probably say no, but on peak days I think it’s a fair compromise considering the capacity limitations the park has on many rides at present.

But what if someone wants to ride nothing but Vampire all day? On the standard queue, I would wait for 90 minutes and ride, wait for 120 minutes and ride, wait for 60 minutes and ride. All RAP should do is make someone wait elsewhere for those times and then come back and ride.

 

[siralgenon]

But what if someone wants to ride nothing but Vampire all day? On the standard queue, I would wait for 90 minutes and ride, wait for 120 minutes and ride, wait for 60 minutes and ride. All RAP should do is make someone wait elsewhere for those times and then come back and ride.

This is the point I'm trying to make, it's not fair saying you can only ride an attraction once. Some people may not want to ride every attraction and do only a few a few times.

So this new system isn't fair, and sorry to pull out that card but it's not giving those with disabilities equality. For example there may be a child with an impairment who only wants to ride The Gruffalo all day. So how is it fair he can only go on it once?

 

[Thameslink Rail]

While this will reduce RAP queues for the big rides, it cannot help with the underlying problem that Chessington just does not have the required capacity. Yesterday TS Facebook posted that Rattlesnake was getting a throughput of 100pph with three cars on, regardless of how you arrange the queues that will still end in a huge wait time. If they agreed to give the engineering department a pay rise and hired a couple more then they could work at getting all the rides open and on maximum capacity which would make the queues shorter for everyone and allow the park to remove the RAP limit.

 

[Craig]

But what if someone wants to ride nothing but Vampire all day? On the standard queue, I would wait for 90 minutes and ride, wait for 120 minutes and ride, wait for 60 minutes and ride. All RAP should do is make someone wait elsewhere for those times and then come back and ride.

So this new system isn't fair, and sorry to pull out that card but it's not giving those with disabilities equality. For example there may be a child with an impairment who only wants to ride The Gruffalo all day. So how is it fair he can only go on it once?

Then you’d go on a quieter day. That may be harsh, but if you want RAP to be as fair as possible for all guests then there has to be some kind of sacrifice made on these hideously busy days. Yes it’s important to give equal access as much as possible, but it’s also imperative that the system achieves the main reason for it to exist - to prevent those physical queues.

There’s not really any other sensible way of doing it. Give people say 5 RAP passes to cover any of those five rides, then there’s possibility all 5 passes would be used for one single ride such as day Vampire, or at towers on say Wickerman. That completely negates the reason for doing it (see fireworks for an example of what a mess this turns into at Alton). As @John pointed out a while back, the sheer number of those eligible for RAP can quite often completely exceed the number of people the ride can handle to queue virtually. Yes, that’s problem with the park’s own ride capacity, and hopefully they’ll address that in the years to come. But there’s also the various limitations on where RAP guests can sit etc coming into it too. Can you honestly say that the current system is sustainable on these peak days though?

Something has to give, be that temporarily or not.

 

[Blackhole_Sun]

This is the point I'm trying to make, it's not fair saying you can only ride an attraction once. Some people may not want to ride every attraction and do only a few a few times.

So this new system isn't fair, and sorry to pull out that card but it's not giving those with disabilities equality. For example there may be a child with an impairment who only wants to ride The Gruffalo all day. So how is it fair he can only go on it once?

Then you have the option to also join the main queue or perhaps go on a non-peak day where the queues are likely to be walk on.

This is not for the benefit of the riders of the main queue. It is to keep the RAP queues shorter so people in those queues are waiting less and making it an equal fair chance for all RAP users. By limiting to one ride you are assisting those who can’t queue around yourselves. A sacrifice which is worthy in my opinion.

Again, I will state that theme parks have queues and these are unavoidable. I am still unsure of why this industry has it’s own category for expecting to be able to jump queues or gain an advantage by doing so.

You also have the ability to purchase fast track tickets for the ride, the exact same option main queue riders have. This still perhaps remains the best chance of getting on the ride multiple times with minimal queuing.

 

[BarryZola]

I think we've probably reached the point where realistically RAP should only be open to those who are in wheelchairs or otherwise physically impaired to the point that you have problems standing for more than a few minutes. This is coming from someone who this year has gone through the new system and has gained a RAP pass for the first time based on an anxiety related issue (unused up to this point). Basically, it looks like pretty much anyone with any kind of recent documented history of a condition such as ADHD, Autism, Anxiety etc could pretty easily get a pass if you say the right things in the application process. And this is where we are now, at the point that it's theoretically open to so many people as to make it essentially pretty pointless on many days and also detrimental to the overall queueing systems in general in the park for all guests. It's open to abuse and abused it certainly is. There was a lad on opening day at the front of the queue on his own at the gates chatting away happily from around 7.50am until it opened at 9. When it opened the first place he went was to get his RAP pass, so he'd already waited over an hour quite happily with 'seemingly' no mental or physical irregularities (I know some things are hidden). Then not long afterwards he arrived at The Curse and made his way to the RAP queue area. There he waited for another 2 hours seemingly quite happily and popping out of the queue to chat to Wardley etc. This person obviously was able to queue for three hours so did he really need a RAP pass (along with the countless others in the RAP queue for up to 2 hours)? And I know this because I was there waiting for the same amount of time, and I also qualified for a pass (again, unused at this point). The system is broken and is wide open to be abused and taken advantage of by people who just prefer not to queue, rather than actually not being able to. I don't expect Merlin would realistically change the system now though to exclude various mental issues due to the potential media backlash, but it would probably be for the best, unless only being left open to the most severe cases. I suppose the best that can be hoped for is that people are properly timed out from riding for as long as the queues genuinely are for standard queue guests. A properly enforced virtual queue, so to speak.

Edit- And you know, make sure all of your rides are running well and are actually open so that queues generally are a bit smaller and more spread out.

 

[AstroDan]

This is the point I'm trying to make, it's not fair saying you can only ride an attraction once. Some people may not want to ride every attraction and do only a few a few times.

So this new system isn't fair, and sorry to pull out that card but it's not giving those with disabilities equality. For example there may be a child with an impairment who only wants to ride The Gruffalo all day. So how is it fair he can only go on it once?

What does equality look like to you? The status quo?

The problem seems to me that we/the parks class every disability as equal weighting.

It's a huge spectrum.

 

[jon81uk]

There’s not really any other sensible way of doing it. Give people say 5 RAP passes to cover any of those five rides, then there’s possibility all 5 passes would be used for one single ride such as day Vampire, or at towers on say Wickerman. That completely negates the reason for doing it (see fireworks for an example of what a mess this turns into at Alton). As @John pointed out a while back, the sheer number of those eligible for RAP can quite often completely exceed the number of people the ride can handle to queue virtually. Yes, that’s problem with the park’s own ride capacity, and hopefully they’ll address that in the years to come. But there’s also the various limitations on where RAP guests can sit etc coming into it too. Can you honestly say that the current system is sustainable on these peak days though?

Then system needs to take account the amount of RAP guests waiting into the return time issued and at the same time increase the regular standby queue by the same margin.
If a large number of guests join the regular queue the estimated wait time should be increased, so if a large number of guests ask for a RAP return time then the wait time also increases to take account of those guests joining the queue too.
if a ride throughput is 600 people an hour and 500 turn up in the regular queue and a 100 in RAP the person at the back needs to be told to wait an hour irrespective of if they are RAP and going away and coming back, or if they are standing in a physical queue.

I think the issue at the moment is that the wait times are only taking into account the people in the regular physical queue not the RAP virtual queue and the fasttrack returnees too.

 

[Islander]

I think at this point, ‘equality’ is very quickly becoming a state whereby those without physical disabilities, and who are “neurotypical”, are at a very definite disadvantage.

That’s an odd description of equality.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Craig]

Then system needs to take account the amount of RAP guests waiting into the return time issued and at the same time increase the regular standby queue by the same margin.
If a large number of guests join the regular queue the estimated wait time should be increased, so if a large number of guests ask for a RAP return time then the wait time also increases to take account of those guests joining the queue too.
if a ride throughput is 600 people an hour and 500 turn up in the regular queue and a 100 in RAP the person at the back needs to be told to wait an hour irrespective of if they are RAP and going away and coming back, or if they are standing in a physical queue.

I think the issue at the moment is that the wait times are only taking into account the people in the regular physical queue not the RAP virtual queue and the fasttrack returnees too.

I wholly agree with you, but that can only work if the number of RAP users doesn’t exceed the actual capacity. For Chessington, on some days that’s nigh on impossible with low throughput rides like Rattlesnake, Fury and Vampire. You either have to limit the number of RAP users each day, or on very busy days you do what they’re doing now and have as many people as possible have a day where they get on the best variation of rides with the limited capacities that they have.

 

[Benzin]

I think at this point, ‘equality’ is very quickly becoming a state whereby those without physical disabilities, and who are “neurotypical”, are at a very definite disadvantage.

That’s an odd description of equality.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Solved this issue by marrying one with both.

 

[jon81uk]

I wholly agree with you, but that can only work if the number of RAP users doesn’t exceed the actual capacity. For Chessington, on some days that’s nigh on impossible with low throughput rides like Rattlesnake, Fury and Vampire. You either have to limit the number of RAP users each day, or on very busy days you do what they’re doing now and have as many people as possible have a day where they get on the best variation of rides with the limited capacities that they have.

Or they have to actually limit the number of guests in the regular standby queue as well, closing queues when the combined number of guests in all three queues, exceeds the number of people the ride has capacity for in saw three hours.

This would need significant investment and upgrades to their technology overall I guess though to know how many fasttrack to expect to return as well as RAP and a better estimate of the regular queue time.

I don’t expect Merlin to do the work Disney have into joining together three different queuing systems.

 

[imanautie]

I think we've probably reached the point where realistically RAP should only be open to those who are in wheelchairs or otherwise physically impaired to the point that you have problems standing for more than a few minutes. This is coming from someone who this year has gone through the new system and has gained a RAP pass for the first time based on an anxiety related issue (unused up to this point). Basically, it looks like pretty much anyone with any kind of recent documented history of a condition such as ADHD, Autism, Anxiety etc could pretty easily get a pass if you say the right things in the application process. And this is where we are now, at the point that it's theoretically open to so many people as to make it essentially pretty pointless on many days and also detrimental to the overall queueing systems in general in the park for all guests. It's open to abuse and abused it certainly is. There was a lad on opening day at the front of the queue on his own at the gates chatting away happily from around 7.50am until it opened at 9. When it opened the first place he went was to get his RAP pass, so he'd already waited over an hour quite happily with 'seemingly' no mental or physical irregularities (I know some things are hidden). Then not long afterwards he arrived at The Curse and made his way to the RAP queue area. There he waited for another 2 hours seemingly quite happily and popping out of the queue to chat to Wardley etc. This person obviously was able to queue for three hours so did he really need a RAP pass (along with the countless others in the RAP queue for up to 2 hours)? And I know this because I was there waiting for the same amount of time, and I also qualified for a pass (again, unused at this point). The system is broken and is wide open to be abused and taken advantage of by people who just prefer not to queue, rather than actually not being able to. I don't expect Merlin would realistically change the system now though to exclude various mental issues due to the potential media backlash, but it would probably be for the best, unless only being left open to the most severe cases. I suppose the best that can be hoped for is that people are properly timed out from riding for as long as the queues genuinely are for standard queue guests. A properly enforced virtual queue, so to speak.

Edit- And you know, make sure all of your rides are running well and are actually open so that queues generally are a bit smaller and more spread out.

erm no, just no.
More then enough abled bodied disabled people who need rap (myself included) that going "Oh you can walk? main queue it is" that it's not an option.

I think the key thing Merlin need to do isn't add additional illegal restrictions onto RAP but actually enforce the rules they have, have staff consistently checking RAP photo ID matches (Possibly scope to work with accesso to get photos on lo-queue scanners), and time outs being accuratly enforced.

edit: Before it gets asked, abled bodied==no physical disabilities, abled means no disabilities .