• ℹ️ Heads up...

    This is a popular topic that is fast moving Guest - before posting, please ensure that you check out the first post in the topic for a quick reminder of guidelines, and importantly a summary of the known facts and information so far. Thanks.

Russia vs NATO

This is not WW3.
Other nations will not walk willingly into war, this is brinksmanship by one individual against a single nation.
Other nations are not walking into war because they know what that would involve.
He has increased his nations value of mineral reserves, and will now make more money internationally with Russian fuel, which for all the talk, will still be flogged off to the rest of Europe, as there are no realistic alternatives that are rapidly available.
The real constant risk to all our futures is climate change...that is what will kill off all our grandchildren.
People need to get out more, and read less.
 
The big difference between Hitler and Putin is Hitler had at the time one of the world’s largest and technically advanced armed forces not some tin cans stuck together with superglue and 18 year old conscripts.
rob666 said:
The real constant risk to all our futures is climate change...that is what will kill off all our grandchildren.
Click to expand...

Behave…🤣
 
Sorry, I didn't breed, all of your grandchildren.
The biggest threat to mankind is the overheating of the planet.
Undeniable, scientific fact...beyond any "reasonable" argument.
We continue to grow as a population, with finite resources, moving through limited pipelines and cables.
Industry makes things worse by the day, with no sign of slowing.
The melting of polar ice and glaciers has now tipped the balance, and change is accelerating, but climate conferences just generate more hot air.
The cost of energy is on course for doubling in retail terms over the next couple of years due to increased global demand.
Air conditioning is creeping into homes, hotels and cars, and sucks up even more energy to keep us cool in the increasing summer heat.
Record daily high, and average temperatures, world extreme worst forest fires and droughts.
But yeah, I'm just saying it for fun, to keep minds off the thug Putin.
 
Matt N said:
For starters, Hitler had the Axis alliance with Italy and Japan, two significant world powers, and I believe Austria-Hungary was also on the side of Germany as well. The Allies, on the other hand, consisted only of Britain, France, the USA and the USSR (and to a lesser extent China). So the two sides were fairly level.
Click to expand...
When Hitler started the war the USSR was on his side so he could risk taking parts of europe, the silly mistake he made was backstabbing the USSR and invading them, otherwise he would've of likely won the war. Austria-hungary didn't exist anymore after being broken up after WW1 by I believe the Treaty of Versiles, but the first move Hitler made was to annex Austria by holding a 'referendum' that was totally fair and there definatley wasn't german soldiers pointing guns at Austria's votinging to make sure they gave the right answer. But you are right in principle about alliances, there's NATO vs a military who can't even take a few cities right next to it's doorstep because it doesn't have the logisitics capabilities, something NATO clearly has, especially with major dominance in the skies.
Matt N said:
Correct me if I’m wrong here, but I don’t think any major power has unequivocally backed Russia thus far. Some have remained neutral, but no one has thrown their full weight behind Russia.

I could be wrong there, and please correct me if I am, but my WW2 knowledge from Year 9 History and a spot of internet research tells me that Hitler in 1939 was far less isolated than Putin is in 2022. As such, that might function as a red flag to prevent Putin from pursuing any larger conflict.
Click to expand...
Your right in principle, this isn't going to escalate into WW3 because Putin simply doesn't have any true supporters (apart from a few puppet regimes). Putin knows there is no chance he can win against NATO plus it's allies so at the moment invading a NATO country is unlikely, however there is the possibility of it happening accidently by say a missile hitting something in Poland however I'm not sure if it was just one whether NATO would respond with a full force affront.
 
I don't see ww3, I just see a long protracted occupation of Ukraine for months or even years.

Putin miscalculated and expected the Ukraine people to walk away rather than fight. It's clear the people will keep fighting for their country even if the Russians take control.
 
There are peace talks taking place today in Turkey so fingers crossed something will come out of this.

There are reports that Ukraine will agree to a protection treaty brokered between the a U.S. and Russia that in return for remaining neutral they will get assurance from Russia that it will not attack and assurance from the U S that it will protect. A bit like it does for Taiwan.

The sticking points however remain Crimea, and the two breakaway regions which Russia now identifies with. Ukraine is adamant these remain part of Ukraine, while Russia is adamant they are Russian states.

With regards China. There are not neutral. They favour Russia and have been more and more vocal of this the past week. They blocked the premier league last week because of the support down on TV for Ukraine. They said two days ago the relationship with Russia was rock solid, and yesterday took a swipe at the US and NATO blaming them for this crisis and telling the US to be very careful as the sanctions effect other countries too.

Of course what is happening is that trading relationships with Russia are now breaking down, money cannot be paid to China and there in return are getting annoyed at the west for imposing the sanctions.

I don’t see a military confrontation with China in the immediate future though unless they go for Taiwan. What China May do however is impose tariffs on their exports to the west to compensate their losses from Russian trade.
 
Matt N said:
I hope the less concerned are right, and there’s a good chance that they could be yet, but the thing that concerns me is that @GaryH seems to know his stuff, and he was also right about COVID when no one said it would amount to anything… I remember his posts in 2020 warning us all about COVID were dismissed by many as being overly panicky, but he did eventually turn out to be right.
Click to expand...

Really want to avoid a personal attack but as the situation is clearly causing you anxiety Matt I take exception with this. Gary has made quite a lot of statements about covid that turned out to be incorrect, including stating the death rate would be higher than it turned out to be and obsessing over a number of variants that did not cause any issue.

This isn’t to attack Gary, just to point out that we all are both right and wrong throughout our lives, so just because Gary is particularly concerned about nuclear escalation doesn’t mean it will happen, his opinion is valid but it is only one opinion.

I suspect Putin will do a false flag chemical attack though, some have suggested biological but chemical seems more likely.
 
……And that’s the great thing about living in the free world, we can all agree to disagree on forums without risk of the police knocking on our door and locking us up for days.
 
I wonder if Putin actually believes (or believed when this started) that what he is doing in Ukraine is good for Ukraine, is what they wanted, is the actual right thing to do? I wonder what info he is fed from Intel and military command.

I can see Russia taking a swaith of Ukraine that boarders them, much of which they've already done, putting up a big wall and calling that a success, until sometime in the future when another regime can work towards undoing the damage.
 
Putin doesn’t care less about Ukraine. This is purely about stopping the west expanding. Putin is stuck in the old USSR days. He is not European. He is an old communist dinosaur who thinks the west is out to get him. The new generation of Russian people want to be part of Europe and want to travel and integrate like the rest of us. They want to live in a democratic country and that’s what scares Putin the most.

@Matt N - this should reassure you - the press conference today with the Russian foreign minister when asked about a nuclear conflict. Source is Sky News :

Lavrov does not believe this will spiral into nuclear conflict​

We have been reporting this morning on a news conference held by Sergei Lavrov, Russia's foreign minister, after he held talks with his Ukrainian counterpart in Turkey - and we can bring you some interesting lines now on his view of the prospects of nuclear war.

Asked by a Kremlin correspondent for Russia's Kommersant newspaper if he thought a nuclear war could be triggered through this conflict, Mr Lavrov told reporters in Turkey: "I don't want to believe it, and I do not believe it."
 
GaryH said:
Putin doesn’t care less about Ukraine.
Click to expand...

You can't know this. Yes, it is clear that a lot of this is fueled by distrust (not necessarily mistrust!) of the west/Europe/Nato, but his narrative that he is liberating Ukraine from those 'outside' forces could well he one that to a certain extent he holds honestly.

Like our leaders have when they've bombed the crap out of various corners of the globe.

What is happening is disgusting, horrific and senseless, I'm not coming away from that at all. But it's too easy to just think of Putin as an inherently evil bond villan character, the truth is certainly much more nuanced and the world holding on to that view is unlikely to lead to peace anytime soon. We don't know what information Putin is fed to come to this strategy.
 
rob666 said:
Sorry, I didn't breed, all of your grandchildren.
The biggest threat to mankind is the overheating of the planet.
Undeniable, scientific fact...beyond any "reasonable" argument.
We continue to grow as a population, with finite resources, moving through limited pipelines and cables.
Industry makes things worse by the day, with no sign of slowing.
The melting of polar ice and glaciers has now tipped the balance, and change is accelerating, but climate conferences just generate more hot air.
The cost of energy is on course for doubling in retail terms over the next couple of years due to increased global demand.
Air conditioning is creeping into homes, hotels and cars, and sucks up even more energy to keep us cool in the increasing summer heat.
Record daily high, and average temperatures, world extreme worst forest fires and droughts.
But yeah, I'm just saying it for fun, to keep minds off the thug Putin.
Click to expand...

You might be saying it for fun but it has bugger all to do with this topic.
Now if you’d wanted to discuss all of the additional CO2 caused by Putins dinosaur tanks, missiles and hot air coming out of his cake hole then fair enough.
 
Two big events so far today :

1. Public on a Russian TV talk show openly condemned the attack on Ukraine calling Putin a tyrant and saying they don’t want another Afghanistan. Sadly I expect those saying this were arrested shortly afterwards but shows the truth is getting through and public opinion is starting to turn:



2. China has today called Russians actions a war for the first time and has refused to send spare aviation parts to Russia. This is huge for China who have been very careful in their choice of language up to now.

www.reuters.com

Chinese foreign minister says he hopes Ukraine war will stop as soon as possible

China hopes the war in Ukraine can stop as soon as possible, Foreign Minister Wang Yi said on Thursday, describing for the first time the situation in Ukraine as a "war".
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
 
Can I ask; is it only me who feels a slight pang of dread every time this thread is bumped? I know that nothing too drastic conflict-wise has happened for the past few bumps (in fact, I’d say Gary’s most recent one above was actually rather good news), but it certainly does make me at least a little anxious seeing that new post notification for the Russia vs NATO thread…
 
Matt N said:
Can I ask; is it only me who feels a slight pang of dread every time this thread is bumped? I know that nothing too drastic conflict-wise has happened for the past few bumps (in fact, I’d say Gary’s most recent one above was actually rather good news), but it certainly does make me at least a little anxious seeing that new post notification for the Russia vs NATO thread…
Click to expand...
Yes because I'm sick of saying the line: this is unlikely to be a nuclear war or WW3
 
@Matt N - as others have said, and for which I put my hand up, and apologise to you for with regards it making you more anxious, therefore, I’m looking to only post “good” things now. After all, there is plenty of the other mainstream stuff constantly on TV.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top