I think @Matt.GC has summed it up quite well, although I will further add that separatists previously only held a small proportion of the land in the east that Putin claims. Most people there are Russian speaking Ukrainian's who it seems have mostly turned there back on Russia because of the invasion, of course some still support but the mjaority it seems are against although I imagine it's very hard to get reliable poling data.
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This is a popular topic that is fast moving Guest - before posting, please ensure that you check out the first post in the topic for a quick reminder of guidelines, and importantly a summary of the known facts and information so far. Thanks. - Thread starter GaryH
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Russia vs NATO
A number of the Russian speaking Ukrainians in the far east of the region resented being forced/cajoled into speaking Ukrainian.
There were well recorded reports about which areas faced east/west overall for some time before the war.
Generally, the more eastern, and the older people...the more Russian supporting, and the younger generally look to the west, not the east.
There were well recorded reports about which areas faced east/west overall for some time before the war.
Generally, the more eastern, and the older people...the more Russian supporting, and the younger generally look to the west, not the east.
Alsty
TS Member
I've actually worked with some people in Eastern Ukraine. They spoke Russian rather than Ukrainian. However the fact the mother and son have been forced to flee to Poland while the father stays behind is just heartbreaking. Yes they might be Russian aligned in some viewpoints but that doesn't mean they aren't Ukrainian nor that the Russians can just roll tanks over the border and take it by force at any cost.
I didn't say they aren't Ukrainian, neither did I justify the actions of Russia.
I'm not saying it is a good situation, and we all know what evil scum Putin is, but I was highlighting the genuine problem within the country that large numbers of Ukranian people in the east of the country, particularly the elderly, still look to the east, not the west.
That is giving the Russian dictator the excuse to invade...completely unjustifiably...to "protect" the people of eastern Ukraine from undue western influence.
All complete cobblers, but used to rebuild the soviet empire as his legacy.
The sooner he is dead the better.
He is a despotic tyrant, I would be more than happy to celebrate his death, as he has celebrated after the death of many others, including many of his political opponents.
After the suffering he has caused over decades, I would be happy to pull the trigger myself.
And then I would celebrate comfortably.
After the suffering he has caused over decades, I would be happy to pull the trigger myself.
And then I would celebrate comfortably.
BarryZola
TS Member
Each to their own. I'm sure no-one would force you to celebrate. I, on the other hand, would take great joy from his demise. Some people are just evil and need removing from the gene pool. He's literally responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent people and is ruining the economies of countless countries which negatively effects millions more. I can't actually think of anything potentially more worthy of celebrating at the moment. You must be a very forgiving person
Not really. I don't think Adolf Hilter is worthy of forgiveness but I wouldn't feel comfortable with a day off to "celebrate" his demise.Each to their own. I'm sure no-one would force you to celebrate. I, on the other hand, would take great joy from his demise. Some people are just evil and need removing from the gene pool. He's literally responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent people and is ruining the economies of countless countries which negatively effects millions more. I can't actually think of anything potentially more worthy of celebrating at the moment. You must be a very forgiving person
It's unseemly. The correct thing to do is to remember and honour the victims.
Poisson
TS Member
I mean no to the bank holiday unless we actually go to war then we can celebrate victory rather than his death, a bit like celebrating VE Day on 8/5 rather than celebrating 30/4. I'd be happy he's gone but it seems a bit off to celebrate his death somehow
Reports are coming in on Twitter and sky news that Russia has used chemical weapons in Mariupol. People are having respiratory failure. USA said this would be a red line that would draw in NATO. Could we now see NATO get directly involved.
Also reading that Slovakia is looking at sending Mig 29 to Ukraine while Poland and Germany are sending tanks. Whatever yay you now look at this - it would appear NATO is now getting directly involved.
Also reading that Slovakia is looking at sending Mig 29 to Ukraine while Poland and Germany are sending tanks. Whatever yay you now look at this - it would appear NATO is now getting directly involved.
The thing is Gary, I'm not sure what NATO could do in terms of action, I doubt they are going to want to start a full scale war with Russia, there needs to be a response if this turns out to be true but I'm not sure directly sending troops is going to help the situation. I'm really not sure what NATO's next move should be.
Matt.GC
TS Member
NATO will not declare war on Russia over Ukraine. When did the US government say this was a red line for NATO involvement may I ask? I'd like to read it.
James
TS Founding Member
NATO will not declare war on Russia unless a NATO country is attacked directly by Russia, even then I think they would debate what to do (unless Russia unleashed a huge assault against multiple countries at once).
All NATO can and probably will do is continue what they have already been doing.
All NATO can and probably will do is continue what they have already been doing.
Sorry Gary, but I remember you saying this was world war three some weeks ago.
There has been little on this on the morning main news bulletins.
The way I look at it...
It does not appear to me that NATO is getting directly involved any time soon, quite the opposite.
The USA is a NATO member, it does not direct NATO operations.
Quite a bit about the chemical attack here
news.sky.com
As for NATO not being ruled by the US, I’m not sure about that. The US pays the most in to NATO. It also supplies most of the weaponry. It blocked Poland from sending the migs and has instructed other NATO members what to do, eg. Slovakia to send their S300 system in return for patriot systems. The US is orchestrating the NATO response.
www.bbc.co.uk
Ukraine war latest: Ukraine and Russia agree to Black Sea ceasefire deal after Saudi talks
A Black Sea ceasefire has been agreed by Ukraine and Russia after both sides had separate talks with US officials in Saudi Arabia over the past two days. The White House also says the US "will help restore Russia's access to the world market" for certain products. Follow the latest here.
As for NATO not being ruled by the US, I’m not sure about that. The US pays the most in to NATO. It also supplies most of the weaponry. It blocked Poland from sending the migs and has instructed other NATO members what to do, eg. Slovakia to send their S300 system in return for patriot systems. The US is orchestrating the NATO response.
Ukraine: Nato will respond if Russia uses chemical weapons, warns Biden - BBC News
The US president made the comments during an unprecedented day of emergency summits in Brussels.
www.bbc.co.uk
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Biden said that they would respond in the vaguest of terms, and then the White House danced around explaining what he meant to say...Like the get him out comment.
He was slammed in the media for playing into Putins hands.
This is a European war, America advises, and partialy funds it, but Biden does not hold much respect as an individual on the world stage.
He was slammed in the media for playing into Putins hands.
This is a European war, America advises, and partialy funds it, but Biden does not hold much respect as an individual on the world stage.