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Talbot Street Video Archive

Two more of possibly THE greatest shows that the park has ever put on here, courtesy of cybermen39.


The first show is the 1998 Oblivion (with a hint of Waterworld ;P ) themed Summer Spectacular Stunt Show. It really highlights just how much money and effort went in to making the shows in the 90s! If only Entertainments had the budget to pull things like this off today! :(

http://youtu.be/TNFc8wmlmTo



The second video is of the Oblivion themed Fireworks Display from 1998 and is the best example of how to do a fireworks display that doesn't rely on playing pop music to a few roman candles! ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OExPDGKz5DM#ws
 
I think i must be the only one who thinks that Oblivion fireworks is a bit naff.

Fireworks shows should be about the fireworks not some poorly acted woman going on about "light", they just need better music. Wouldn't say no to a water screen again though :)

The best of the old shows took pyrotechnics to a new level (the 1999 season one with the aliens was great). If you start with the airy tripe such as that and what we got with electric Towers it just seems a bit dull.

The first show is good though
 
I think the point with the old displays was to do something different that would be unique to Alton Towers. Anyone can pull off a short display synced to random pop tracks, but it takes a lot more to create one of the old fireworks displays that Alton Towers put on. In fact, no they weren't displays, they were shows because they were far more theatrical.

Also, the woman (forgot what she was referred to as) is the antithesis of the Lord of Darkness. Yes, it's very cheesy and sci-fi / fantasy, but that was because that's what X-Sector was.

Alton Towers used to do fantasy but these days they're only capable of being serious. Just look at the Smiler's theme compared to these shows and how X-Sector used to be; compare Sub Terra's theme to the nature of Nemesis, its lore and the story in which Sub Terra is based. They're all characterless and bland. There's nothing to break up the concrete, rock or metal for either of them.

It's as if they're scared of not being taken seriously, yet is that not the whole point of theme parks? Who cares if something's OTT, far-fetched or a bit unrealistic? Theme parks should be about weird and wonderful experiences that you could otherwise only dream about, not just themes which are more or less an extension of reality. That isn't escapism.

It's also a great shame that the park can no longer or no longer chooses to use fireworks as large as they used to. They used to set of fireworks that would fill the sky, but now they barely pass the top of the Towers. :(



Anyway, here's another one of cybermen39's videos, a Midlands Today news report on Ug Land's opening:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWlxT5NneWY#
 
I can't see how The Smiler is "characterless" to be honest - it has the wildest and most full-on persona on the park. Whether it's enjoyable is down to the person riding it - some may prefer the rides that play it safe (fantasy themes). But The Smiler's delivery (mostly thanks to the music and obscure sense of humour) is something great and breaks the mould of boring, pseudo-serious themes; which, I agree, goes against the point of theme parks.

In fact the way I look back, Oblivion was the first step towards something serious - it was based in reality rather than an invented fantasy realm. Oblivion did it very smartly and without becoming bland, but now basing a ride on some fictional 'scientific' organisation and giving riders some explanation/queueline video as to why they're there is an overused (and often mundane) technique.

I initially thought The Smiler was going that way, what with the Ministry of Joy and all that wordy publicity about 'marmalisation'. But in the flesh, you can really feel The Smiler's presence as soon as you come towards X Sector, and its brilliant twisted panache keeps on coming! Even after the rollercoaster has finished. If it weren't for the awkwardness of its queue and plasticy finishing touches I would love it as an idea more than Oblivion. And I do love Oblivion!

And I kind of have to admit, those Oblivion shows do look quite dated, but I'm sure they were funnesque.
 
If the towers were to put on shows that today the people on these forums would be busting with excitement. And to be honest I don't think they could even be bothered to put up the tiered seating. which must have been a task just to begin with. And as for being dated. to use so many pyrotechnics and effects is very effective. Something no one has seen on park since. And lots of people love speed boats danger etc.
And as for the fireworks displays I have not missed one since 1992 until the last few years because you get just as good in your local council display. All these shows Big Al put on i taped and these are not my favourite I preferred the Ice Shows and such but you cannot take it away that a lot of money and effort went into these shows. And some thing very unlikely you will see on this scale again.
 
electricBlll said:
I can't see how The Smiler is "characterless" to be honest - it has the wildest and most full-on persona on the park. Whether it's enjoyable is down to the person riding it - some may prefer the rides that play it safe (fantasy themes). But The Smiler's delivery (mostly thanks to the music and obscure sense of humour) is something great and breaks the mould of boring, pseudo-serious themes; which, I agree, goes against the point of theme parks.

In fact the way I look back, Oblivion was the first step towards something serious - it was based in reality rather than an invented fantasy realm. Oblivion did it very smartly and without becoming bland, but now basing a ride on some fictional 'scientific' organisation and giving riders some explanation/queueline video as to why they're there is an overused (and often mundane) technique.

I initially thought The Smiler was going that way, what with the Ministry of Joy and all that wordy publicity about 'marmalisation'. But in the flesh, you can really feel The Smiler's presence as soon as you come towards X Sector, and its brilliant twisted panache keeps on coming! Even after the rollercoaster has finished. If it weren't for the awkwardness of its queue and plasticy finishing touches I would love it as an idea more than Oblivion. And I do love Oblivion!

And I kind of have to admit, those Oblivion shows do look quite dated, but I'm sure they were funnesque.
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I think the idea is great behind it, but how it was carried out... it just doesn't inspire me at all. The theme tries to extend into the real world (evidence in various marketing videos) and it detracts from the isolated nature I used to get from the X-Sector theme.

Don't get me wrong, there are numerous aspects to it that I like (cue my review I posted a few months back), but the way it was done... it feels to me more like how Six Flags would present theming (Batman style) with very little that I could actually class as theming. Most of what there is is cheap (which is why it's falling apart in many places) and it doesn't do a very good job of convincing me that I'm in a facility being "corrected". The fact that it doesn't even feel like it's supposed to be a part of X-Sector does nothing to help convince me about it being as superior as most claim it to be either. It totally ignores some of the most standout features of the X-Sector theme and architecure (unless concrete and pipes are all that is required to tick that box?). If it weren't for its location, you'd be forgiven for thinking it wasn't part of X-Sector.

Majority of the humour and music is beyond cheesy and caricature, though parts are more promising.

And by "fantasy", I mean something that you couldn't really imagine in the real world, and the Marmaliser is a very cheap way of ticking the box. It could have been so much better. The fact that they had to take inspiration (i.e. take a historical event and rename aspects to suit their own purpose) doesn't help with cutting me off from the outside world at all.

To me, I think those behind the idea got a bit carried away with YELLOW and BRIGHT and LOOPS. It's very much the same old "great idea but not executed as well as it could or should have been".


Then again, maybe I was expecting too much? :p



Edit: I also apologise for helping to take this topic a little off-topic.
 
Well yeah it could have been designed much better, and I am myself guilty of writing far too many posts about what X-Sector's persona and architecture should be like- and that The Smiler ignores most of it to Oblivion's detriment. Cue all the posts I typed up a few months ago.

But I think The Smiler shows that great "theming" is not what comprises a good idea for a ride. It has a special charisma about it that good old gradually-falling-apart Oblivion doesn't convey anymore. What's more, it manages to be totally outlandish and obscure but still everybody feels in on the idea and "gets it", without the need of pointless queue videos or whatever (okay, it's still pretty wordy but not nearly as much as I thought it would be). That's entertainment!

Maybe I've just been marmalised? I don't know. The Smiler is just such a refreshing and darkly funny break from the likes of The Swarm, Saw, Zufari and all that.

cybermen39 said:
And as for being dated. to use so many pyrotechnics and effects is very effective. Something no one has seen on park since. And lots of people love speed boats danger etc.
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Oh yes, I don't mean shows themselves are dated - I'm sure they would be popular if they brought them back, but the actual themes of the show could be more adventurous and less "tripe"? as Dave put it. Although I can hardly question the quality of a fireworks event that happened 15 years ago. :twirly:
 
Its just disappointing with what they did back then and think what they could do with todays technology . And its gone more backwards than it was then. Well its none existence. Anyhow I'm leaving it hear i'm just happy that some forum viewers get to see these shows thanks to Big Al
 
electricBlll said:
The Smiler is just such a refreshing and darkly funny break from the likes of The Swarm, Saw, Zufari and all that.
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This. As much as I think The Smiler could have been far more, it's a huge step in the right direction.


Also, I agree that a 90s show, like-for-like, wouldn't work today. But the concept of relaying a story as a huge pyrotechnical display is still extremely appealing, if not more so than back then. People want to see these kinds of things, which is why people pay so much to experience Disney's offerings (I'm not expecting Disney levels of entertainment, before anyone tries to point that out :p ). But if most people are happy with pop music and small fireworks, why would they spend the money trying to go that extra mile? :(
 
I had no idea towers did so many different shows on the lake. And look at the crowds watching them! They have the perfect location for a show on the lake, a simple stage in the middle and people can watch it from either side. It also gives a reason for people to stay later in the summer, even if ride close was 6pm, the show could be going on later!

It certainly wouldn't need to be a themed show to a ride or anything, just a simple stunt show with a bit of a story would be great to watch.
 
djtruefitt said:
It certainly wouldn't need to be a themed show to a ride or anything, just a simple stunt show with a bit of a story would be great to watch.
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They used to do those too. I remember one show where they set up huge ramps on the lawns and stunts were performed with them, along with a few pyrotechnics. It was quite good but I still have a soft spot for the themed shows. ;)

Basically, there was something for everyone. If you didn't like the themed shows or the cheesy fireworks displays, there was always something else for you to see at some point in the season and it would be just as big as the themed shows.
 
I would love a themed show, but I think a large amount of people just wouldn't get it, and it might not appeal to them. But a stunt show, or something more generic would!
 
I loved the Oblivion firework show. It wasn't just a heartless, thoughtless firework show. It had a very basic story and had some pretty awesome effects given that this was about 15years ago!

Also note that alot of the video posted has been edited. There is a decent copy on youtube somewhere.

Edit: here http://youtu.be/NiQt0oKYxrQ
 
The Oblivion displays weren't edited, that's how I received the footage. But I agree that the shows were far beyond anything achieved today (numerous people have already commented on how "Disney" the display is in regards to the scale, story and effects for its age).

:)
 
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