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TBC: SW9 Speculation

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Ooh, I forgot about Sub-Terra! Assuming this fantasy launch coaster I’m fantasising about in my head ever gets built, I could imagine some wonderful path interaction if all the available land was used; I can just picture something like a really nice zero-g stall inverted over the path, and it sounds amazing! It would also fit John Wardley’s philosophy of trying to entertain non-riders and riders alike!

Of course there are many other ride types that I could imagine working well for SW9 (there is that old chestnut of RMC that they could try; something like their single rail model would be both unique to the UK and highly received!), but the thought of something like Icon at Alton Towers is just one that I love so much!
 
I think no matter what, all SWs will be coasters. I highly doubt any kind of water ride, dark ride or flat ride will count as an SW (unless it's a water coaster), but that's not to say they won't be added in the future. I think SW9 will be a thrill coaster, based on the pattern, and we know SW9 has been in the works since before the pandemic so I would imagine by now the park know roughly what they want to add. This is Merlin's flagship park, after all. However, I don't see why SW10 wouldn't be a family thrill coaster, maybe something like a Mack water coaster. That would be awesome if the case.
 
Where's all of this free land in Forbidden Valley that's being talked about to build a new coaster. I'm struggling to find land in there which would give a footprint for a new coaster development.
 
Behind air, and ripsaw, towards the skyride station.
Add on the blade and ripsaw footprints, it is a big site, away from local residents and out of view.
 
Forgive me if I cannot see this, but isn't' it full of trees that cannot really be removed, or worked around to give the coaster the supports it needs and a large despatching station?
 
Godscrasher said:
Forgive me if I cannot see this, but isn't' it full of trees that cannot really be removed, or worked around to give the coaster the supports it needs and a large despatching station?
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The station would be in Forbidden Valley using either the Blade, Ripsaw or both sites. Then the coaster goes into the valley winding around trees. But that plan was shelved in favour of Wickerman, so I'm not sure if they are still considering a similar idea or not, but even without going into the woods there is a reasonable amount of space.

Although again, personally I would rather see flat rides and dark rides before another coaster. I'm sure a dark ride could fit on the staff car park between Towers Street and CBeebies, using some of the Towers St facade as queue/entrance.
 
jon81uk said:
The station would be in Forbidden Valley using either the Blade, Ripsaw or both sites. Then the coaster goes into the valley winding around trees. But that plan was shelved in favour of Wickerman, so I'm not sure if they are still considering a similar idea or not, but even without going into the woods there is a reasonable amount of space.

Although again, personally I would rather see flat rides and dark rides before another coaster. I'm sure a dark ride could fit on the staff car park between Towers Street and CBeebies, using some of the Towers St facade as queue/entrance.
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The cross-valley woodie was shelved because they couldn't get planning permission I think.
 
The recent FV woodie idea is entirely different to the old cross valley woodie plan, IIRC the station for the cross valley coaster was to be in what is now Dark Forest. As far as I know, the more recent one was at the ideas stage a few years ago but I don't really know how far along it ever went - I don't think any proposed layouts for it have ever emerged, they certainly never got to the planning stage with it.
 
James said:
Whenever I've mentioned inverting coasters I've been on with lap bars to non-enthusiasts, they look at me as if I've come out of a nut house... when the British think of lap bars, they think of a flimsy pole that just about stops you from flying out of a ride.
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But if you just built the ride instead of trying to market research and questionnaire every aspect, they would get on it without a problem. The decision to put OTS restraints on Smiler added so much unnecessary difficulty in the design (added weight of the trains) and took away so much from the experience, all for something so arbitrary.

Something like Lost Gravity shows what a far better ride it is with lap bars, and countless coasters around the world use lap bars as we all know. It's the old "the UK public won't ride a wooden coaster" thing all over again.
 
Something worth remembering, however; G Force at Drayton Manor existed in Britain for 13 years, and that had some pretty sustained upside down hang time with lap bars, what with that lift hill! And I don’t get the impression that people were too scared to go on that!

And hasn’t the UK also had quite a few Schwarzkopf coasters that have inverted riders with only lap bars in the past? I know Olympia, the most recent Schwarzkopf coaster to appear in the UK, has the shoulder bars, but I’m sure we must have had many Schwarzkopf looping coasters without OTSRs in the past; I think Thunderlooper certainly didn’t. Although to be fair, past Schwarzkopfs perhaps aren’t the best comparison to use...

There is also Icon that has operated for 2 years with overhead lap bars and inversions (well, an inversion if RCDB is to be taken as gospel). I know Icon had issues in terms of attracting guests to BPB, but it seems to be one of the park’s most popular rides among the guests who do visit!
 
skyscraper said:
The cross-valley woodie was shelved because they couldn't get planning permission I think.
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John said:
The recent FV woodie idea is entirely different to the old cross valley woodie plan, IIRC the station for the cross valley coaster was to be in what is now Dark Forest. As far as I know, the more recent one was at the ideas stage a few years ago but I don't really know how far along it ever went - I don't think any proposed layouts for it have ever emerged, they certainly never got to the planning stage with it.
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I was about to reply then saw you already said it. Yep Thirteen basically replaced the cross-valley woodie. That proposal got very close I think but planning permission withdrawn because there was objections, so it wasn't refused as AT removed the application before it could be refused.

I also don't think the Forbidden Valley coaster got close to planning permission but was just discussed on forums. There was also of course the rumoured broomstick coaster years back as well.
 
OilyWater said:
But if you just built the ride instead of trying to market research and questionnaire every aspect, they would get on it without a problem. The decision to put OTS restraints on Smiler added so much unnecessary difficulty in the design (added weight of the trains) and took away so much from the experience, all for something so arbitrary.

Something like Lost Gravity shows what a far better ride it is with lap bars, and countless coasters around the world use lap bars as we all know. It's the old "the UK public won't ride a wooden coaster" thing all over again.
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I did ride a simple looping coaster (Scorpian at Busch Gardens) many years ago and didn't notice it was lap bar only until I was sat in the seat. Although I know the physics means you won't fall out on the loop, apparently I still went as white as a sheet when I sat down in the coaster and realised it was only a lap bar. Maybe it was the age of the coaster too but there was some odd fear I had of it.
Yet I was fine on G-Force at Drayton Manor, but then its a much newer different experience I guess.
 
jon81uk said:
That proposal got very close I think but planning permission withdrawn because there was objections, so it wasn't refused as AT removed the application before it could be refused.

I also don't think the Forbidden Valley coaster got close to planning permission but was just discussed on forums.
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The cross valley coaster was cancelled because a wildlife survey (part of planning application process) found there were protected badger setts

Apparently Forbidden Valley coaster got quite far behind the scenes but cancelled before a planning application was submitted
 
OilyWater said:
But if you just built the ride instead of trying to market research and questionnaire every aspect, they would get on it without a problem. The decision to put OTS restraints on Smiler added so much unnecessary difficulty in the design (added weight of the trains) and took away so much from the experience, all for something so arbitrary.

Something like Lost Gravity shows what a far better ride it is with lap bars, and countless coasters around the world use lap bars as we all know. It's the old "the UK public won't ride a wooden coaster" thing all over again.
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Oh I absolutely agree. However Merlin have always heavily relied on market research, they will not invest without a guarantee that there will be a return on investment.

As I said in the post you quoted. Wicker Man shows that what market research/questionnaires churns out doesn't necessarily depict reality. Hopefully attitudes have changed due to this.

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With regards to the elusive FV wooden coaster (the most recent one that was rumoured in around 2015, not John Wardley’s cross valley from the 2000s), I’ve had a look through the internet for some info and collated it together to give a sort of guide as to what it might have been. Bear in mind that this is all based on rumours, and it is not fact by any means; we only had very limited actual info of what the park was considering.

Let’s start with the basics; the ride would likely have opened in 2017 and would have been located towards the northern end of Forbidden Valley. It would have been a wooden or hybrid coaster, but no manufacturer was ever specified, despite there being very strong rumours.

And there certainly were strong rumours! The ride was heavily rumoured to be an RMC Topper Track coaster (wooden coaster), and there was even a poster back in TowersStreet’s SW8 speculation thread who claimed to know some of the statistics: https://towersstreet.com/talk/threads/2017-18-sw8-speculation.3182/page-11#post-127414
Some of the interesting things they said include:
  • Max height of 20m (65.6ft), however this is not consistent with later documents submitted by the park
  • Launch speed of 68km/h (42.3mph), with the maximum speed being 80km/h (49.7mph)
  • Launch angle of 20 degrees
  • Track length of 885m (2,903.5ft)
  • 90 second ride duration (whether this includes the brake run or any pre-launch sections I don’t know)
  • 2 inversions; a barrel roll and a zero-g roll
  • Theoretical capacity of 1,080 riders per hour

However, if you read a little further through TowersStreet’s SW8 topic, Screamscape seems to think that the coaster would have been an Intamin wooden coaster (presumably a pre-fab), and would have been the first in a two-ride deal with Intamin for Alton Towers, the second of which would have been an Intamin flume to replace The Flume: https://towersstreet.com/talk/threads/2017-18-sw8-speculation.3182/page-31#post-139188

However, we did have some trickles of official info from the park, which while not overly specific, did give us a few bits of vital info.

Firstly, the park filed some kind of impact survey back in April 2015, and while it wasn’t a formal planning application by any means, it did offer a few small details: https://www.towerstimes.co.uk/blog/2015/04/23/first-clues-to-secret-weapon-8-revealed/
Some of the details it gave include:
  • The ride would have entailed “tunnels”, “ground level changes” and a “pre-show building”, in some of the more interesting side elements.
  • The ride would have been 14.5m (47.6ft) tall.
  • The ride would have had three “high points”, with “high point A” being “visible above the existing tree cover, but lower than the highest part of Nemesis”.
  • The ride would have been located “near Nemesis” and approximately 75m (246.1ft) away from the Gothic Prospect Tower, indicating a large area of Forbidden Valley being used.
  • The ride would have been of “timber truss construction” and would have had “one or more” of its “high points” enclosed within “sound tunnels”. If these two points don’t hint towards a wooden or hybrid coaster, then I don’t know what does.

The final bits of info I managed to dig out are from a post posted on TowersTimes in April 2016 following one of their events, where they got to speak with some designers for Merlin: https://forum.towerstimes.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31149&p=841469&hilit=rock+removal#p841469
What was basically said was that the proposal would have had its station on the site of the Blade (which would also match up with it disappearing from the 2015 map early on before the decision being reversed following backlash), and the track would have “gone up into the extended Nemesis queue line area” and “behind Sub-Terra”. The reason the project was ultimately scrapped was due to the excessive cost of rock removal in Forbidden Valley taking up too much of the budget.

So, that’s all the info I could find! I hope you find it interesting; I know I certainly did!
 
I was under the impression that the Cross Valley Woodie was essentially confirmed to be an Intamin pre-fab?

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