Teachers

[Adam]

Bloody hell! I'm thinking of becoming a teacher after uni, but judging by some people in this topic I may as well just forget about it, seeing some of the comments towards them on here. :

Correction: one person.

I was trying to be diplomatic.

 

[Funky_Monk]

I think one thing we can all take away from this thread is that we know what the Fail Topic of 2013 will be.

 

[Harv]

Bloody schools. How dare those teachers not endanger their lives by travelling in dangerous conditions? They should spend last time stealing our hard-earned money and more time taking precautions to ensure that the weather never hastles us again. In addition to this, they should sacrifice their salaries and get sent to the workhouses until they learn to appreciate real work. :

 

[TheMan]

This has gone from an annoyance over one day, into an all out attack on an entire profession.

Football games were postponed, up and down the country, for player/fan safety. They are paid 10ks of thousands of pounds more than a annual teachers salary, every single week in many cases.

Without a clear synopsis, of what forced a School to close - based only upon what conditions were like in certain areas, without knowing the complex working geography of the organisation it is simply not possible to form absolute judgement.

Kids safety is at the very centre of decision making as well it should be. It is common sense and basic risk assessment. It is sensible. Convenient? No, but the teachers didn't put the f-ing snow up there either!

How it went from opined questionable judgement by a school, to teachers being lazy though - wow that is a big stretch!

 

[delta79]

BigT, have you had the (would be rude, but cleaned for forum) comments of "Had a nice kip" or "Where have you been hiding" after working your bum off in a hot stuffy cramped plant room for 3 hours straight?

These comments are usually from people that don't know/ understand the job a maintenance engineer does. the rest know what they do and it just normal factory banter.

Yes, i am a maintenance electrician by trade. I have worked in factories and now i work in the estates department of a local college.

My mum is a retired Nursery teacher/Manager. and yes her contact hours (time with kids) where 9am to 3pm. then she would come home, do what was needed then start doing anything from 3 to 5 hours of paperwork per night.

As for lecturing staff at work, i have already posted in the school closer thread on how hard they work. and i would like to add about one that really could not get in, doing their paperwork at home via the internet portal for staff, and doing the lectures via skype to the few students that could get into college.

 

[Meat Pie]

This doesn't really have anything to do with teachers. It's the classic paranoia of a Right winger, that everyone who isn't them can't be working as hard and are cheating skivers.

BigT's normal schedule was interrupted by the inconvenience of snow preventing the school from opening. He can't look to the obvious problem that the local government doesn't invest anywhere near enough in the infrastructure required to cope with dangerous icy conditions, as that would require a raise in taxes, and heaven forbid should anyone have to pay towards something which benefits others! Instead, the solution has to be that all those teachers are lazy and can't be bothered to get on with their work, thus relinquishing any responsibility to contribute to the solution.

 

[Islander]

I think the best way for me to reply to this thread is to quote something I posted in the 'school closures' thread (would've made more sense to merge this into that thread, IMO, rather than splinter it off into its own thread):

This is a tricky subject. But one thing that annoys me is some of the people on my facebook that are teachers often post updates saying things along the lines of "Hurry up snow I want a day off"
As someone that works and is expected to be in work that annoys me a lot as it just looks like they just want to skive.

Be fair, loads of people from every profession post exactly the same thing every time we get heavy snow

It just shocks me when the first thing I hear on the news is 5000 schools shut but not a mention of anything else shut, it doesn't give a good impression of your trade I'm afraid.

What, 25,000 schools remaining open in the face of such difficult conditions doesn't give a good impression? What utter tripe.

You're lapping up the negative media slant on this - 5000 is a large number when taken completely out of context, but when taken in the context of the number of schools in the UK, it's not huge.

---

There are many reasons why I left the teaching profession - extreme over-working, poor government support, unreasonable targets, prohibitive policies (to name a very small few), but a non-insignificant reason was the frankly abysmal perception of teachers that certain parts of the government and media are trying to force upon the general public; a perception that an alarming number of people are starting to take.

Go to many other countries worldwide, and the work that teachers do is appreciated, and the profession is, and those that take it are, respected. Not so in the UK, where a not-too-small minority see teachers as lazy, worthless good-for-nothings, who work 9am - 3pm, Monday-Friday, 39 weeks of the year. Why would I want to stay in that profession where people think that of me, when I work 7:30am - 6pm Monday-Friday, with another couple of hours in the evening, 5-10 hours most weekends, and continue working throughout Christmas, Easter and all half term holidays, and also on days when the school is closed to pupils because of snow but I've gone in anyway.

Bum deal, no thanks. Sad really, because I love teaching children, and was told by quite a few teachers, and lots of my pupils, that I was really quite good at it

 

[EuroSatch]

I have three suggestions for this topic:

1. Lock it

2. Rename it to 'The Education System.' (Full stop for Kaycee's benefit) where we can actually discuss latest educational reforms and how effective we find the current system

3. Rename it to 'A critique (read bashing) of teachers from an unqualified point of view because I'm selfish and better than you'

 

[Islander]

Any of those seen reasonable. Or the fourth option:

4. Merge it with the 'school closures' topic, because it's essentially the same teacher-bashing exercise as that which took place in there.

 

[Bear]

1. Lock it

Oh can we please please please?

 

[BigT]

67 hours this week, even after having Monday off. Lazy engineers unlikely.

You're saying you worked 16.75 hours per day last week? With respect, I don't believe you.

Hint, there's 7 days in a week, not 5. Says it all really doesn't it.

I find some of the comments on here a little ill judged with very little knowledge, I know enough about schools and life in general to know who the workers in society are, and those that go into certain professions for a easy ride.
It's not limited to teachers and not all teachers are lazy but they have more than their fair share knowing that they will never get sacked.
I know I'm not going to get any support off here because like I said in a previous thread, only teachers and students think they work hard, and you could extend that to whole of the public sector.
Yes there will be exceptions but work in the engine room of society (the private sector) and your eyes will well and truly be opened, trust me.



Simon, your a teacher now that does worry me, deeply worry me.

 

[Mankey]

I find some of the comments on here a little ill judged with very little knowledge, I know enough about schools and life in general to know who the workers in society are, and those that go into certain professions for a easy ride.
It's not limited to teachers and not all teachers are lazy but they have more than their fair share knowing that they will never get sacked.
I know I'm not going to get any support off here because like I said in a previous thread, only teachers and students think they work hard, and you could extend that to whole of the public sector.
Yes there will be exceptions but work in the engine room of society (the private sector) and your eyes will well and truly be opened, trust me.

Simon, your a teacher now that does worry me, deeply worry me.

So wait, you think students are the same? Tell me what are your thoughts in university students? Are we the same lazy, leeching people that you supposedly suggest are teachers too?

My sister is a secondary school teacher. She's contracted to work 9-3:30 I think. She arrives at school for 7:30 am, to get some early marking done. She leaves at 5pm. Then when she gets home she continues to mark and plan for later lectures. How the hell is this lazy?!

I did not see the previous topic, and I'm glad I didn't. But what I did miss what what your profession is BigT! What do YOU do?!

God you'd die if you found out what profession I'm going in to! But of course the three years of constant researching, working, slaving over essays is probably the laziest thing in the world and I'm wasting your money doing it because of my university loan.

You are an incredibly ignorant person, and I'm totally baffled how you cannot see this.

Simon, your a teacher now that does worry me, deeply worry me.

Your reasoning?

 

[T]

67 hours this week, even after having Monday off. Lazy engineers unlikely.

You're saying you worked 16.75 hours per day last week? With respect, I don't believe you.

Hint, there's 7 days in a week, not 5. Says it all really doesn't it.

I find some of the comments on here a little ill judged with very little knowledge, I know enough about schools and life in general to know who the workers in society are, and those that go into certain professions for a easy ride.
It's not limited to teachers and not all teachers are lazy but they have more than their fair share knowing that they will never get sacked.
I know I'm not going to get any support off here because like I said in a previous thread, only teachers and students think they work hard, and you could extend that to whole of the public sector.
Yes there will be exceptions but work in the engine room of society (the private sector) and your eyes will well and truly be opened, trust me.



Simon, your a teacher now that does worry me, deeply worry me.

Teachers jobs aren't always 'safe'. I know of three people that lost their jobs last year, through no fault of their own.
Also, I find your views repulsive. I don't like to shoot people down for having an opinion, but you Sir are ignorant to anyone's work but your own.

After being in a relationship with a teacher I can say that EVERYTHING we did *had* to revolve around their work schedule. I am not speaking the School Day either. I'm talking about evenings, weekends, and holidays. Precious hours are spent planning lessons which is a requirement to do so. This was done in his own time, outside of school. You know, the hours where people like yourselves would be slouched in front of the television, enjoying a takeaway, sipping a beer whilst deciding which chick you'd smash from Take Me Out.
Holidays weren't that. We wanted to go away but due to the fact he was taking his students through their exams we couldn't as he had a tremendous amount of work to prepare. It isn't just the teachers that have to dedicate time, it's their families too.

I have one suggestion for this topic, in the words of Paddy himself;

Lights out, All out.


Sent from my iPad mini using Tapatalk HD

 

[LiamC]

Already been said by other people, but I'll just repeat it.

LAZY? What the hell? I've never met one "lazy" teacher in my life. I don't think you realise how hard it is to actually plan an entire weeks worth of lessons, let alone just one. They are always the first in and the last out.

I feel you're just trolling for the lols now, which is sad. Don't believe the media when it comes to teachers. AT. ALL. I'm afraid you just seem like a bitter person that attends the "university of life" I hear banded about so much.

...but they have more than their fair share knowing that they will never get sacked.

This is not true, there is a fine line teachers tread between what they can and can't do. A child falls down in the playground, you pick them up surely? No, for fear of being accused of being inappropriate. Harsh, but true.

I know I'm not going to get any support off here because like I said in a previous thread, only teachers and students think they work hard, and you could extend that to whole of the public sector.
Yes there will be exceptions but work in the engine room of society (the private sector) and your eyes will well and truly be opened, trust me.

I work in the private sector and I FULLY SUPPORT teachers and students in their professions and study. Why must someone fear attacks and repressions because they choose to better themselves? It's a sad sad day when man doesn't support fellow man in their choices.

 

[Tim]

This topic is getting Insane, let’s try and keep things civil and not repeat the same argument (because I think we have enough case studies by now of how hard teachers work, if none of them have had any effect then piling more on isn’t helping)

---

My trouble with your argument BigT is that you’re not the only person on this forum that works in the private sector. Yet you are the only person bashing the work that teachers do.

I'm sorry if all the teachers you know have chosen the profession for an "easy ride" but most chose it because they have a passion for the job. And you only need to read the posts before mine to know that teaching comes with a lot of stress and is by no means easy.

 

[T]

This topic is getting Insane..

The topic became 'Insane' when it was created by sidetracking a NHS thread... But, I guess, such is the ways of an open Forum.

 

[Tom]

I don't want to get too heavily involved in this, but some of the things that have been said go to show that some people are quite detached from reality.

For example, weekends exist and can/have to be worked by some people. That's not a criticism of teachers, but of those (I think Sam) whose head it didn't even enter that someone could be working a Saturday or Sunday.

I used to regulalry work 80+ hours a week as aa trainee before I had even left my teens, so BigT's claim of 67.5 hours worked over six days is nothing too extreme by any measure.

By my calculations, with the average teacher salary being £35,000 and their minimum requirement to be available to perform duties of 195 days (1,250 hours approx), a teacher is paid £28 or so per hour.

 

[LiamC]

By my calculations, with the average teacher salary being £35,000 and their minimum requirement to be available to perform duties of 195 days (1,250 hours approx), a teacher is paid £28 or so per hour.

Teachers' hefty salaries are driving up taxes, causing recession, and so we have to take the money from elsewhere because of these greedy teachers, their massive salaries are a drain on society, and they only work for what? 9 or 10 months a year!

It's time we put thing in perspective and pay them for what they do - babysit! Surely we can get that for minimum wage?

That's right. Let's give them £6.00 an hour and only for the hours they worked; not any of that silly planning time, holiday pay, pensions, etc, or any time they spend before or after school. It's only child minding after all....

That would be £39.00 a day (7:45 AM to 3:00 PM with 45 minutes off for lunch and planning, that equals 6 1/2 hours work per day).

We should privatise the schools, and the teachers, we'll pay it. Each parent should pay £39 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children. Now how many students do they teach in a day? Maybe 30? So that's £39.00 x 30 = £1,170.00 a day. However, remember they only work 180 days a year!!! I am not going to pay them for any vacations.

LET'S SEE.... That's £1,170 X 180 days = £210,600 per year. (Hold on, somethings wrong here! My calculator must need new batteries).

What about those special education teachers and the ones with Master's degrees who've been doing it for years? Well, we could pay them a little more (£7.75 an hour), and just to be fair to them, let's round it off to £8.00 an hour. That would be £8 X 6 1/2 hours X 30 children X 180 days = £280,800 per year. Wait a minute, someone's messing with my calculator -- there's something wrong here!

There sure is:
The average teacher's salary (nationwide figures from Sept 2011) is just over £30,000. So £30,000 divided by 180 days = £166.66 per day divided by 30 students = £5.55 per day divided by 6.5 hours = £0.85 per hour per student.

Which is a very inexpensive baby-sitter and they even EDUCATE our kids! WHAT A DEAL!!!!

Heaven forbid we take into account the rights of all workers (holiday pay, pensions, etc) or highly qualified teachers and heads...

 

[Simon]

Simon, your a teacher now that does worry me, deeply worry me.

I've never experienced such vindication! I'm now satisfied that the future of he nation's youth is safe in my hands.

 

[Tom]

By my calculations, with the average teacher salary being £35,000 and their minimum requirement to be available to perform duties of 195 days (1,250 hours approx), a teacher is paid £28 or so per hour.

Teachers' hefty salaries are driving up taxes, causing recession, and so we have to take the money from elsewhere because of these greedy teachers, their massive salaries are a drain on society, and they only work for what? 9 or 10 months a year!

It's time we put thing in perspective and pay them for what they do - babysit! Surely we can get that for minimum wage?

That's right. Let's give them £6.00 an hour and only for the hours they worked; not any of that silly planning time, holiday pay, pensions, etc, or any time they spend before or after school. It's only child minding after all....

That would be £39.00 a day (7:45 AM to 3:00 PM with 45 minutes off for lunch and planning, that equals 6 1/2 hours work per day).

We should privatise the schools, and the teachers, we'll pay it. Each parent should pay £39 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children. Now how many students do they teach in a day? Maybe 30? So that's £39.00 x 30 = £1,170.00 a day. However, remember they only work 180 days a year!!! I am not going to pay them for any vacations.

LET'S SEE.... That's £1,170 X 180 days = £210,600 per year. (Hold on, somethings wrong here! My calculator must need new batteries).

What about those special education teachers and the ones with Master's degrees who've been doing it for years? Well, we could pay them a little more (£7.75 an hour), and just to be fair to them, let's round it off to £8.00 an hour. That would be £8 X 6 1/2 hours X 30 children X 180 days = £280,800 per year. Wait a minute, someone's messing with my calculator -- there's something wrong here!

There sure is:
The average teacher's salary (nationwide figures from Sept 2011) is just over £30,000. So £30,000 divided by 180 days = £166.66 per day divided by 30 students = £5.55 per day divided by 6.5 hours = £0.85 per hour per student.

Which is a very inexpensive baby-sitter and they even EDUCATE our kids! WHAT A DEAL!!!!

Heaven forbid we take into account the rights of all workers (holiday pay, pensions, etc) or highly qualified teachers and heads...

Unfortunately your content (not sure if it's your own or not) is delivered with sarcasm and bias, wheras mine is free of both. I make no comment as to whether I consider £28 per hour to be excessive or not.