Teachers

[LiamC]

By my calculations, with the average teacher salary being £35,000 and their minimum requirement to be available to perform duties of 195 days (1,250 hours approx), a teacher is paid £28 or so per hour.

Teachers' hefty salaries are driving up taxes, causing recession, and so we have to take the money from elsewhere because of these greedy teachers, their massive salaries are a drain on society, and they only work for what? 9 or 10 months a year!

It's time we put thing in perspective and pay them for what they do - babysit! Surely we can get that for minimum wage?

That's right. Let's give them £6.00 an hour and only for the hours they worked; not any of that silly planning time, holiday pay, pensions, etc, or any time they spend before or after school. It's only child minding after all....

That would be £39.00 a day (7:45 AM to 3:00 PM with 45 minutes off for lunch and planning, that equals 6 1/2 hours work per day).

We should privatise the schools, and the teachers, we'll pay it. Each parent should pay £39 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children. Now how many students do they teach in a day? Maybe 30? So that's £39.00 x 30 = £1,170.00 a day. However, remember they only work 180 days a year!!! I am not going to pay them for any vacations.

LET'S SEE.... That's £1,170 X 180 days = £210,600 per year. (Hold on, somethings wrong here! My calculator must need new batteries).

What about those special education teachers and the ones with Master's degrees who've been doing it for years? Well, we could pay them a little more (£7.75 an hour), and just to be fair to them, let's round it off to £8.00 an hour. That would be £8 X 6 1/2 hours X 30 children X 180 days = £280,800 per year. Wait a minute, someone's messing with my calculator -- there's something wrong here!

There sure is:
The average teacher's salary (nationwide figures from Sept 2011) is just over £30,000. So £30,000 divided by 180 days = £166.66 per day divided by 30 students = £5.55 per day divided by 6.5 hours = £0.85 per hour per student.

Which is a very inexpensive baby-sitter and they even EDUCATE our kids! WHAT A DEAL!!!!

Heaven forbid we take into account the rights of all workers (holiday pay, pensions, etc) or highly qualified teachers and heads...

Unfortunately your content (not sure if it's your own or not) is delivered with sarcasm and bias, wheras mine is free of both. I make no comment as to whether I consider £28 per hour to be excessive or not.

It is not my content no, it was sourced from somewhere else. I was merely highlighting that perhaps you are also detached from reality, as you said in your previous post.

The job of a teacher is incredibly difficult, pressurized and strenuous, and I believe their pay reflects the amount of effort they put into it.

 

[Poisson]

This topic is not a discussion, it is a waste of space.

Cold,solid facts teachers are lazy please!

There really is that many mistakes in my posts?! Damn this Tapatalk milarky!

 

[Tom]

It is not my content no, it was sourced from somewhere else. I was merely highlighting that perhaps you are also detached from reality, as you said in your previous post.

The job of a teacher is incredibly difficult, pressurized and strenuous, and I believe their pay reflects the amount of effort they put into it.

Please specify how I've demonstrated that I'm detached from reality. I've referred to a specific example of where in my opinion someone else is.

I've not expressed a view that a teacher's job a cushy life - you're simply inferring that because I'm not defending them. I was challenging the argument that people in other professions could not possibly work 67.5 hours in six days, which in reality is not a rare practice.

 

[EuroSatch]

By my calculations, with the average teacher salary being £35,000 and their minimum requirement to be available to perform duties of 195 days (1,250 hours approx), a teacher is paid £28 or so per hour.

£35k is a highly inflated 'average' you have quoted there. Unless you are a departmental or pastoral head, you are looking closer to £30k.

You also state minimum requirement, but what you have actually made a calculation on is the required hours to be on school premises and contact hours with pupils. Lesson planning is also a requirement. Assessment is a requirement. Progress tracking is a requirement. Extra duties are also a requirement according to the Qualified Teaching Standards.

 

[pluk]

Yes there will be exceptions but work in the engine room of society (the private sector) and your eyes will well and truly be opened, trust me.

After having had a lengthy career in both I can say with confidence that that is an absolute nonsense. I'm sure there are plenty of both public and private sector workers who do have a cushy job hidden away in an office somewhere, but teachers aren't one of them.

My sister was a teacher (at a special needs school, which admittedly may have been a little more challenging than some other teaching posts). It was an all consuming job which gave her little lime for anything other than work and it was too much for her, she's now doing well in the oh so tough private sector earning much more money without breaking a sweat.

Other than money wise though, her current job isn't rewarding. I think that is why teaching is sometimes seen as easy, because the actual teaching part, spending hours and hours with children helping and developing them, is something that is a really enjoyable thing to do. As a one off you wouldn't have to pay me to do it! But it is easy to forget about all the crap around it though, that isn't easy or enjoyable.

 

[Mankey]

But it is easy to forget about all the crap around it though, that isn't easy or enjoyable.

Mhmm, Such as people whinging that they're lazy and are taking the "easy route". (Not aimed at you, Pluk)

Nothing better than working your arse off all day to come home to someone saying you've spent it doing nothing. :

I dread to think what these people's views were on the teacher strikes a while back!

 

[willb]

Good lord! Some of the comments on here are stunning.

I work in many different primary schools and I can tell you now that 90% of them are still working into the evening at the school, or at home nearly every day of the week.

Unpaid Overtime, no hours in leu.

And whats worse is that they are expected to do this, even though they are not contracted to do so.

But they get on with it to educate your/our children... Thats commitment.

BigT, you are staggeringly ignorant and offensive.

 

[GAGrathea]

I work for the school as well as going to it, and it's common as hell to find an assortment of staff in over the weekend finishing off some marking or drawing up lesson plans. Or whatever. On a week day random teachers (just teachers, not heads of subject or house or anything) are regularly in as late as 7 or later if the site's still open.

It's customary for staff members to give a bit of a speech when they leave, the amount of long-serving staff who emphasise the importance of not letting the school become your life is amazing, such is the standard level of dedication to the whole world that the job is.

 

[Islander]

The main teaching unions at the moment are encouraging 'Action Short of Strike Action', for a variety of reasons relating to working conditions, attitudes from the government etc. What it essentially entails is working to your contract, i.e. the hours that you're contracted to do, the workload that you're contracted to have etc., and no more.

Most teachers in my school did not even contemplate doing this, because the backlog of work that it would create would be immense, and the repercussions (in terms of work later on in the year, and student progress) would be many and large. Heck knows that if you take one 'true' day off (not something like a snow day, where you'll still be working at home or school) due to seriously bad illness, or another valid reason, then you immediately fall behind and it makes subsequent days a pain in the rear end.

Back to the point, one teacher in our department was a union rep, and did decide to take 'Action Short of Strike Action', much to the dismay of the rest of us (we understood and appreciated why he would do it, but knew it would cause problems). It created so many problems that it's untrue - suddenly the rest of the department had to take on his workload, reallocating coursework to mark, doing lesson planning for him so that he could write reports (that only he could), finishing his requisitions (to let lab techs know what he needed for the following week).

It pushed the rest of our already exceedingly high workload even higher, and to reiterate: this was one guy doing absolutely no less than his contracted hours and workload.

Anyone who claims that teaching is easy, that teachers have a small workload, or that teachers are lazy, and more to the point continues to claim this when presented with a large amount of conflicting evidence, is ignorant, arrogant, and to be honest just trollish.

BigT, I'd love to see you have a crack at teaching. I'm confident that you'd very, very quickly change your views.

 

[James]

Surprised I didn't come in here seeing blood dripping down the screen. Jeez, yet another topic where people feel the need to start insulting one another in order to get a point across. Just be constructive and respect other peoples' views.*

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Regarding the little snow argument. All (if not the majority of) education establishments (just covering places other than primary/secondary schools) have policies that stick with 'staff come into work if it is safe to do so', and most (or all) places will also 'review' weather situations with snow and come to a decision on a closure or opening by X time, usually between 6am-9am, depending on the policies of a particular school.

I find it ludicrous that it's been suggested teachers 'bunk off' because of the weather. They get a day off because it's too dangerous for them or their students to get to the school!

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Teaching is much like any other profession. Long hours, tiring (yet sometimes rewarding), stressful, tests your limits, plenty of overtime and usually a lot of paperwork to get through. It's not easy, but the people who work in these intense jobs (this includes all other professions out there) do a very good job on keeping top of things and I have a keen admiration for people that work so hard for usually little back in reward.

I think it's a bit rude of people to make out teachers do nothing - and on the other side of the card I don't think teachers should make out their job is the only hard one out there either. Everyone just needs a little perspective (although only one or two members have appeared to be on either extreme sides of the argument).

After reading this topic (or at least skim reading it) I've mainly gathered that teaching has been targeted to create a debate either due to a personal issue from the member who started the argument, or just because out of all the professions out there, teaching is one of the professions that is constantly in the limelight (especially in the media).

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*can I just note this is not aimed at the post above mine, or aimed at any particularly member. I am just generalising after going through this topic.

 

[TheMan]

This is one more fine example, of people sucking up what a Government or sensationalist press want you to believe, to either:

A) Sell Votes or,
B) Sell Newspapers.

It is completely bereft of logic, fact, reason, empathy, compassion, understanding, knowledge, forethought, comprehension, really... that list is endless.

Ultimately - put your facts on the table. Provide independent, established reasoning that teachers are "lazy".

I know 12 year old kids, who have more reasoned informed debates than this, it is crazy talk. You cannot slander an entire profession based upon 1 snow day where ONE FIFTH (seems about right?) of UK schools were closed.

As I said before, if it is that easy, well paid, and such an easy ride - why on Earth are you not doing it?? Surely, if this job is that easy then it makes more sense than working all those hours you work, right?

I'm not against hard work, public or private sector, and having been around both there are some pretty easy jobs in the public sector that's for sure... couldn't believe it at times in fairness.

Teaching though? Wow, not a chance! They work against the backdrop of increasingly unruly kids, parents, government targets and have to deal with social decline whilst rising standards apply every increasing pressure.

Incidentally, I believe the foremost issue of this decline in social standards is the lack of community and empathy for others around us.

BigT - I've enjoyed conversations with you, but on this one, you are indeed part of the problem and most certainly not the solution.

I know plenty of people who worked around Schools, and you all know I give my honest opinions - I don't think all teachers are great, it is like any profession, and there are bad ones... but teachers on the whole lazy?

There is not a shred of empirical evidence anywhere, to suggest that is even remotely true!

 

[BigT]

You ask why I don't become a teacher TheMan, I'll give you three straight answers,

1) I'm not politically correct so I wouldn't last long.
2) I wouldn't put up with the abuse teachers allow themselves to suffer, so I would again be sacked as unfortunatly you can no longer lay a finger on yobs.
3) I couldn't afford the wage cut.

You asked a straight question I give you a straight answer.

 

[Islander]

2) I wouldn't put up with the abuse teachers allow themselves to suffer, so I would again be sacked as unfortunatly you can no longer lay a finger on yobs.

This intrigues me - teachers allow themselves to suffer this abuse, and yet you point out that 'you can no longer lay a finger on yobs'. Slightly contradictory, no?

Also, do I take this as read that you approve of corporal punishment, then? Don't want to jump to conclusions here...

3) I couldn't afford the wage cut.

Interesting that you view a teaching salary as being low, yet will also be perfectly vocal about their laziness (in your eyes).

 

[Sam]

1) I'm not politically correct so I wouldn't last long.

Is that some sort of Daily Mail speak for 'I'm a bit racist and misogynistic and parents don't really want their kids being taught by that kind of person'?

2) I wouldn't put up with the abuse teachers allow themselves to suffer, so I would again be sacked as unfortunatly you can no longer lay a finger on yobs.

Damn those teachers, not wanting to spend their time physically assaulting children and wanting to teach them things instead! God, it's almost like we live in humane times, bloody human rights/health and safety/New Labour/European Union/political correctness!

3) I couldn't afford the wage cut.

LOL. So you spend all this time insulting teachers, and then imply that they don't get paid enough?

Give this one up mate, you're looking a bit of a muppet.

 

[BigT]

I think that corporal punishment has already been done, I made my views on that clear I believe.
I never said teachers Salarys were low, just I earn a lot more.

Yea I'm just a racist homophobic xenophobe who wants death to all foreigners, god those teachers did a good job on you lot!

 

[Islander]

I never said teachers Salarys were low, just I earn a lot more.

...and yet you can't afford to take a day off because your daughter's school was closed because of treacherous conditions? Weird.

 

[BigT]

I never said teachers Salarys were low, just I earn a lot more.

...and yet you can't afford to take a day off because your daughter's school was closed because of treacherous conditions? Weird.

You got paid.

 

[Sam]

In society today, we don't want schools employing teachers who want to control kids through violence. The vast majority of people find the idea repulsive and unacceptable. Deal with it.

 

[Dave]

Well i hoped the topic wouldn't turn into a farce and expressed that wish when i split it off from the NHS one, but (as i guessed) it did.

If people can't

A) Stop insulting each other
B) Stop adding pointless posts that add nothing
C) Tone down the aggression rating a little

Then the topic will be locked/ warning will be issued. It baffles me why people can't tell the difference between passionate informed debate and bitter arguing.

 

[Islander]

I never said teachers Salarys were low, just I earn a lot more.

...and yet you can't afford to take a day off because your daughter's school was closed because of treacherous conditions? Weird.

You got paid.

Ahh, but your much larger wage over time will more than cover the one extra day's pay I (would have) received