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ℹ️ Heads up...
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- Thread starter Johno
- Start date
And thank you, for proving that some people simply can't move on from something and are consistently obsessed with what we do.
Seriously. We have no issues with anyone or anything on TowersStreet. However the constant jibes on Facebook and on both this forum and ours are way beyond childish now.
I do read this forum regularly, but due to the above behavior I've yet to properly 'join in' due to the reaction it would cause.
Sorry if this comes across as argumentative, but it is a point that has long needed to be made.
Seriously. We have no issues with anyone or anything on TowersStreet. However the constant jibes on Facebook and on both this forum and ours are way beyond childish now.
I do read this forum regularly, but due to the above behavior I've yet to properly 'join in' due to the reaction it would cause.
Sorry if this comes across as argumentative, but it is a point that has long needed to be made.
Adz,
I wouldn't particularly call indirectly pointing out the differences between two forums childish. It would be like BK complaining when a review of McDonalds appears - it's not really anything big, just a genuine point of noticing a difference, without mentioning any names.
In addition, I think the teams on both sites have done a sterling job with regards to keeping discussions about what happened in June to a minimum once the initial hubbub died down - and I don't think that your definition of 'constant jibes' towards your forum from TowersStreet members is proportional or particularly accurate, barring very rare occurrences that the team make clear they don't support.
I wouldn't particularly call indirectly pointing out the differences between two forums childish. It would be like BK complaining when a review of McDonalds appears - it's not really anything big, just a genuine point of noticing a difference, without mentioning any names.
In addition, I think the teams on both sites have done a sterling job with regards to keeping discussions about what happened in June to a minimum once the initial hubbub died down - and I don't think that your definition of 'constant jibes' towards your forum from TowersStreet members is proportional or particularly accurate, barring very rare occurrences that the team make clear they don't support.
I agree, the team have done a very good job. This is not an attack on them in any way. If I could make this point on a different medium than this forum I would have done as I didn't want this to become about them as I count many of them as personal friends, however this topic is a prime example of what I mean.
I would insist that 'constant' is accurate if you factor in instances off this forum. Most you don't get to see because it either makes its way to my personal inbox or is deleted by myself or my team. I will point out that I know it's not a one way street by any means.
I just want everyone to get along with no silly remarks made by anyone. None of this are in it for a war against another community.
I would insist that 'constant' is accurate if you factor in instances off this forum. Most you don't get to see because it either makes its way to my personal inbox or is deleted by myself or my team. I will point out that I know it's not a one way street by any means.
I just want everyone to get along with no silly remarks made by anyone. None of this are in it for a war against another community.
Adz said:
Which, if I'm honest, means that my statement is correct as I can only judge what I see - I don't see the point in complaining publicly about something which, in all honesty, is a private matter between yourself and the individuals concerned. You're tarring us all with the same brush by making this statement, something which I will wholeheartedly defend as not being the case
Far from it. I know many on TowersStreet are not doing this. The issue is everyone that is doing it is from TowersStreet and are doing it in some misjudged loyalty statement. I know nobody on the team nor indeed the majority of the members want that.
I'm not going to drag this out any further as I do not wish to start an argument with anyone. all i ask is that any childish behavior stops. You won't get any from myself or the TowersTimes Team. If you have any concerns you are more than welcome to talk to me about it. We are all humans behind these forum profiles afterall.
I'm not going to drag this out any further as I do not wish to start an argument with anyone. all i ask is that any childish behavior stops. You won't get any from myself or the TowersTimes Team. If you have any concerns you are more than welcome to talk to me about it. We are all humans behind these forum profiles afterall.
That's a fair response Adz, and I (genuinely) respect your viewpoint on things and your attempt for clearing things up (even if I have differences in opinion on how a forum should be run - but I won't go into that here, as it is just that - an opinion!).
I too have no interest in dragging this out at all - having briefly met you in real life you're a genuinely nice guy - as you say, we're all humans!
I just think that it's in no-ones interests to publicly accuse our members of something when it only involves a very small subset of users - that is the point I was trying to get across
I too have no interest in dragging this out at all - having briefly met you in real life you're a genuinely nice guy - as you say, we're all humans!
I just think that it's in no-ones interests to publicly accuse our members of something when it only involves a very small subset of users - that is the point I was trying to get across
Whilst I think it's probably not great to say things which have the potential to build up tensions between the two forums, no person/organisation/forum/whatever should play the victimisation card every time someone makes a justifiable and reasoned criticism.
And before you say this is not the place to have this conversation, I think that anything that is relevant to methods of running a forum is a completely legitimate topic. Although I do think it could have been put across better in less point-scorey manner.
And before you say this is not the place to have this conversation, I think that anything that is relevant to methods of running a forum is a completely legitimate topic. Although I do think it could have been put across better in less point-scorey manner.
Joel
TS Technical Admin
- Favourite Ride
- Closed season on TST
This wasn't anything to do with the split of TT into TS at all as you imply; it was an opinion based upon a recent decision you've obviously made and some people disagree with it. It's not even addressed to you, nor even mentions you, and actually thanks us for not changing anything (again presumably after you have changed something on the basis you've replied here), so I don't see what the issue is, or even any inability to move on as you suggest.
People choose brands, products, services based upon their opinions, and if they wish to share them with others, then so be it if they can justify why and with good reason then there is nothing wrong with that. Obviously we'll take a dim view of people slandering or attacking someone, but neither has happened as far as I can see in this case, rather just your objection to someone's opinion.
We welcome feedback and even seek feedback on matters from our members, and in fact pride ourselves on listening to our members, good or bad, and acting upon it. If someone wishes to thank us for not changing something, then they are welcome to and I'll personally thank Johno for it.
The only animosity I feel being created here is your very suggestion and implication of every piece of trouble coming from TowersStreet Adz, so I don't think you've done anything to help the cause of keeping the peace between the sites. As we've said repeatedly (and yet you have failed to do) if you know it was someone from TowersStreet, then contact a team member about it and we'll deal with it. You've not contacted us once, so I fail to see what this issue is.
You forget that people were upset with what happened at TT, even if it didn't directly involve them. They aren't going to just forget that and live happily ever after - or perhaps to put it in another way, you're not going to get bad service or a bad product from a shop and then just move on quietly and forget about it - if people don't like what a company, entity or organisation have done and object to it, they usually retain that opinion for some time and share it with others - so long as its justified, as I say, so there will always be people that dislike and hate TT, much I'm sure the same about TS.
If people wish to share their justified thoughts here, there or anywhere else about X, Y or Z, then so be it. But there really is no issue here apart from your personal one, which I'm afraid I can not help with.
People choose brands, products, services based upon their opinions, and if they wish to share them with others, then so be it if they can justify why and with good reason then there is nothing wrong with that. Obviously we'll take a dim view of people slandering or attacking someone, but neither has happened as far as I can see in this case, rather just your objection to someone's opinion.
We welcome feedback and even seek feedback on matters from our members, and in fact pride ourselves on listening to our members, good or bad, and acting upon it. If someone wishes to thank us for not changing something, then they are welcome to and I'll personally thank Johno for it.
The only animosity I feel being created here is your very suggestion and implication of every piece of trouble coming from TowersStreet Adz, so I don't think you've done anything to help the cause of keeping the peace between the sites. As we've said repeatedly (and yet you have failed to do) if you know it was someone from TowersStreet, then contact a team member about it and we'll deal with it. You've not contacted us once, so I fail to see what this issue is.
You forget that people were upset with what happened at TT, even if it didn't directly involve them. They aren't going to just forget that and live happily ever after - or perhaps to put it in another way, you're not going to get bad service or a bad product from a shop and then just move on quietly and forget about it - if people don't like what a company, entity or organisation have done and object to it, they usually retain that opinion for some time and share it with others - so long as its justified, as I say, so there will always be people that dislike and hate TT, much I'm sure the same about TS.
If people wish to share their justified thoughts here, there or anywhere else about X, Y or Z, then so be it. But there really is no issue here apart from your personal one, which I'm afraid I can not help with.
Martin
TS Member
It's a valid criticism of TT, just like it would be a valid criticism of any other website.
The split was nearly six months ago, most of us are over it. TT is just another enthusiast site to compete with. All that's happened is someone is thanking the team here for not making the same decision as another site. I doubt Rob Alvey would come here saying this if it was TPR that made a section of their forum private, and he and his site get a lot more 'jibes' than everyone else put together.
The split was nearly six months ago, most of us are over it. TT is just another enthusiast site to compete with. All that's happened is someone is thanking the team here for not making the same decision as another site. I doubt Rob Alvey would come here saying this if it was TPR that made a section of their forum private, and he and his site get a lot more 'jibes' than everyone else put together.
Joel
TS Technical Admin
- Favourite Ride
- Closed season on TST
I'm glad to hear people are over it, because we don't want an issue between the sites at all. TT will always be competitors to us now, and even so our team will always lead by example where ever possible to ensure that everyone is fair and courteous to other fan sites. Of course, we know that doesn't always happen perfectly and frustrations boil over, but at least we try our very best.
The simple answer would be to just block and remove any discussion about another site (and we will remove anyone trolling, or attacking any other site within our power) but that wouldn't be in the ethos of what our site has set out to be, somewhere welcoming, open, honest and free to discuss within reason.
I am of course personally annoyed at even having this discussion, because it goes completely against our first point, and had no reply been made there wouldn't have been any further discussion on the matter I suspect - but that it my personal feelings on it.
But, please, I beg anyone (and not just the TT team) that if you spot someone being unreasonable towards another community, or even person or entity, come and tell us - we can't have omnipresence and be everywhere to see everything going on, so we rely on people telling us things are wrong especially as an unmoderated community.
We can't change the opinion of everyone and nor can we police every member, particularly outside of our own forum and site, but we can deal with matters that escalate and deal with them on our own site.
Thanks.
The simple answer would be to just block and remove any discussion about another site (and we will remove anyone trolling, or attacking any other site within our power) but that wouldn't be in the ethos of what our site has set out to be, somewhere welcoming, open, honest and free to discuss within reason.
I am of course personally annoyed at even having this discussion, because it goes completely against our first point, and had no reply been made there wouldn't have been any further discussion on the matter I suspect - but that it my personal feelings on it.
But, please, I beg anyone (and not just the TT team) that if you spot someone being unreasonable towards another community, or even person or entity, come and tell us - we can't have omnipresence and be everywhere to see everything going on, so we rely on people telling us things are wrong especially as an unmoderated community.
We can't change the opinion of everyone and nor can we police every member, particularly outside of our own forum and site, but we can deal with matters that escalate and deal with them on our own site.
Thanks.
Scott
Former TS Team Member
- Favourite Ride
- Nemesis
Late to the party (and thus probably shouldn't post my two cents...) but one thing caught my eye.
I don't think anyone would have any issues with you posting on here Adz and I don't think that being an admin on TT would have any effect on people's opinions regarding to your posts. Same would go for any regular members on TT and the TT team... Many people on here still read TT and occasionally post too - equally there are a lot of new members on here who have no idea what happened 6 months ago.
Basically, I wouldn't let a pre-conceived thought stop you from posting here. Whatever happened in June is in the past, and whilst many of us won't 'move on' from it as such, it doesn't help for either side to not have an open mind.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
I don't think anyone would have any issues with you posting on here Adz and I don't think that being an admin on TT would have any effect on people's opinions regarding to your posts. Same would go for any regular members on TT and the TT team... Many people on here still read TT and occasionally post too - equally there are a lot of new members on here who have no idea what happened 6 months ago.
Basically, I wouldn't let a pre-conceived thought stop you from posting here. Whatever happened in June is in the past, and whilst many of us won't 'move on' from it as such, it doesn't help for either side to not have an open mind.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
Jordan
TS Contributor
I don't count myself as someone "consistently obsessed" with what TowersTimes are doing, but it does strike me that, by hiding photos away for members only, TT are putting their own (commercial?) benefit over that of the wider community.
If the interests of the community were really at the site's heart, surely they'd be published for everyone to see and discuss. Instead, there's probably a bit of discussion on TTF and then a sombre amount of silence outside, as people either don't know the context of the photos, due to it not being reported as news anywhere else, or people are too scared to post anything, in fear of TT's over-eager legal team.
Compare this to when TowersStreet first reported photos of the SW7 track on-site. Immediately, those photos were sent around the world via social channels, posted on lots of other theme park blogs and fansites (almost all with attribution back to TS) and talked about everywhere. Surely this is a better approach - not only does the community get information and photos, but TowersStreet was cited everywhere as providing the first photos, got a remarkable amount of traffic, and quite a bit of collective goodwill from the community too.
Even if TT aren't bothered about supporting the enthusiast community at all, I would have thought that from a business point of view it would make more sense to publish their exclusive photos and news for other sites to talk about too, and they'd probably drive a decent proportion of new visitors to the forums who might join.
If the interests of the community were really at the site's heart, surely they'd be published for everyone to see and discuss. Instead, there's probably a bit of discussion on TTF and then a sombre amount of silence outside, as people either don't know the context of the photos, due to it not being reported as news anywhere else, or people are too scared to post anything, in fear of TT's over-eager legal team.
Compare this to when TowersStreet first reported photos of the SW7 track on-site. Immediately, those photos were sent around the world via social channels, posted on lots of other theme park blogs and fansites (almost all with attribution back to TS) and talked about everywhere. Surely this is a better approach - not only does the community get information and photos, but TowersStreet was cited everywhere as providing the first photos, got a remarkable amount of traffic, and quite a bit of collective goodwill from the community too.
Even if TT aren't bothered about supporting the enthusiast community at all, I would have thought that from a business point of view it would make more sense to publish their exclusive photos and news for other sites to talk about too, and they'd probably drive a decent proportion of new visitors to the forums who might join.
Sam
TS Member
Adz, where does it even mention TowersTimes in the initial post? It doesn't reference 'other rollercoaster sites' either. TowersTimes isn't even mentioned implicitly.
The only reason things have become "way beyond childish" is because you've arrogantly hijacking this topic to create your own drama with it. You're not complaining about the drama and conflict. You are the drama.
The only reason things have become "way beyond childish" is because you've arrogantly hijacking this topic to create your own drama with it. You're not complaining about the drama and conflict. You are the drama.
Tim
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Air / Blue Fire
Oh come on Sam! That first post was obviously referring to TowersTimes recently decision to make their SW7 section Members Only and the fact that you liked it proved that you understood that meaning.Sam said:Adz, where does it even mention TowersTimes in the initial post? It doesn't reference 'other rollercoaster sites' either. TowersTimes isn't even mentioned implicitly.
The only reason things have become "way beyond childish" is because you've arrogantly hijacking this topic to create your own drama with it. You're not complaining about the drama and conflict. You are the drama.
Sigh... I'm just disappointed that rather than doing like I did and going to the TowersTimes Team to tell them why I think this decision is a bad idea we’re resorted to implying it in a rather underhand way.
It also makes me slightly annoyed that I got told of for mentioning this in our SW7 discussion topic when all I was doing was informing everyone, yet it’s ok for us to joke about it here :-\
Craig
TS Administrator
I think it's important to allow people to have such discussions, especially as it affects the 'status quo' as it were of how updates have worked between enthusiast sites in the past. The discussion point that Jordan has raised in particular is his view of comparing how TowersStreet's updates have worked and how TowersTimes updates have worked and the benefits/downsides of each. I would ask people to be aware of the following if they wish to participate in this topic though:
Please do not turn this topic into an anti TT topic. If you wish to provide feedback on their decision, your first point of call should be contacting the TT team. Submit your views here in relation to their decision having the potential to affect discussion on TowersStreet/sites in general, but please don't use this topic solely as a one stop shop to complain - that's why they have a forum and other contact methods.
Tim - I don't think anyone is joking in the topic, there have been some very good points raised. This board in particular is for discussion regarding issues affecting the community and site, so discussion is more suited in here. With the SW7 topic, there was danger of moving away from discussing the new attraction to becoming pages and pages of discussion about whether TT are wrong or right to post images. We want to keep that topic as somewhere where people can get information on SW7 and discuss it rather than have it delve into the depth of enthusiast site politics. I know from speaking to Jordan this is why he chose to post in here rather than in the main theme park topics. Hope that explains and clears things up.
Please do not turn this topic into an anti TT topic. If you wish to provide feedback on their decision, your first point of call should be contacting the TT team. Submit your views here in relation to their decision having the potential to affect discussion on TowersStreet/sites in general, but please don't use this topic solely as a one stop shop to complain - that's why they have a forum and other contact methods.
Tim - I don't think anyone is joking in the topic, there have been some very good points raised. This board in particular is for discussion regarding issues affecting the community and site, so discussion is more suited in here. With the SW7 topic, there was danger of moving away from discussing the new attraction to becoming pages and pages of discussion about whether TT are wrong or right to post images. We want to keep that topic as somewhere where people can get information on SW7 and discuss it rather than have it delve into the depth of enthusiast site politics. I know from speaking to Jordan this is why he chose to post in here rather than in the main theme park topics. Hope that explains and clears things up
.
TheMan
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- NemiLerVion
This made me laugh!
TT getting grief is laughable ;D - ok they get a bit of a ribbing from time to time, it's usually done quite tongue in cheek - and I'm a newbie with zero bias to either site what so ever.
Cor deary me, my mates give me more stick than TT have gotten on here lol! Seriously.
What's more, it was a valid point, and one ripe for discussion - but I can tell you one thing, reading through this forum, the members spend enough time giving the staff here stick about what they're doing, never mind commenting about others of any kind!
Yes, me included!!
You took a section of your public forum, that's meant to attract visitors, then made it private. I respect your decision, it's your site - but if you were to ask me what the point was, there is only one, to try and use a more strong arm method to attract more memberships - I've been around the net a long, long time. Either that, or well, it doesn't actually have a point and is, shall we say, counter intuitive?
The guys here try to keep a more open forum, and are open to being given some stick about it too.
I don't agree with everyone here, or everything this forum does, and I say when I don't. However in this case, I think I have to stand up for this rubbish about TT being got at constantly on here. It's just not true at all!
Sorry to tell you Adz, you seem like a nice guy and I genuinely mean no disrespect whatsoever, but seriously, forums are not that important to most of us, that we consistently need to discuss the actions of other ones we don't even necessarily frequent. One or two members may discuss it, especially previous ones - but there are a great multitude of us who to be frank, couldn't give monkeys uncle.
As good a forum as it is here, it is still, just a forum, as is yours.
I wish you good luck with it, but with so much effort being put into here, and so many new members with zero knowledge or care of this issue, I had to stand up and defend that point.
Anyway I hope you don't take it personally, but I speak on behalf of the many of us here who put much effort and time into our posts, in an attempt to engage and discuss/debate with others the many varied and fascinating attributes of the enthusiast world.
TT getting grief is laughable ;D - ok they get a bit of a ribbing from time to time, it's usually done quite tongue in cheek - and I'm a newbie with zero bias to either site what so ever.
Cor deary me, my mates give me more stick than TT have gotten on here lol! Seriously.
What's more, it was a valid point, and one ripe for discussion - but I can tell you one thing, reading through this forum, the members spend enough time giving the staff here stick about what they're doing, never mind commenting about others of any kind!
Yes, me included!!
You took a section of your public forum, that's meant to attract visitors, then made it private. I respect your decision, it's your site - but if you were to ask me what the point was, there is only one, to try and use a more strong arm method to attract more memberships - I've been around the net a long, long time. Either that, or well, it doesn't actually have a point and is, shall we say, counter intuitive?
The guys here try to keep a more open forum, and are open to being given some stick about it too.
I don't agree with everyone here, or everything this forum does, and I say when I don't. However in this case, I think I have to stand up for this rubbish about TT being got at constantly on here. It's just not true at all!
Sorry to tell you Adz, you seem like a nice guy and I genuinely mean no disrespect whatsoever, but seriously, forums are not that important to most of us, that we consistently need to discuss the actions of other ones we don't even necessarily frequent. One or two members may discuss it, especially previous ones - but there are a great multitude of us who to be frank, couldn't give monkeys uncle.
As good a forum as it is here, it is still, just a forum, as is yours.
I wish you good luck with it, but with so much effort being put into here, and so many new members with zero knowledge or care of this issue, I had to stand up and defend that point.
Anyway I hope you don't take it personally, but I speak on behalf of the many of us here who put much effort and time into our posts, in an attempt to engage and discuss/debate with others the many varied and fascinating attributes of the enthusiast world.