• ℹ️ Heads up...

    This is a popular topic that is fast moving Guest - before posting, please ensure that you check out the first post in the topic for a quick reminder of guidelines, and importantly a summary of the known facts and information so far. Thanks.

The Brexit Thread

BarryZola said:
Great. First the patronising 'Brexiters were too thick to know what they were voting for', then straight in with the childish 'gammons'. Well done.
Click to expand...
I don't support the 'too thick' comments and I do think that suggestion has not been particularly widespread.

What single statement sums up what all Brexit voters voted for? "To leave the European Union" doesn't mean anything in real terms because there are 100s or 1000s of potential flavours of that statement, all with different costs, risks, implications and outcomes.

You could have had the softest of Brexits, a departure of the political organisations, with continued single market and custom union membership with the continued free movement of people. Conversely, you could have had the hardest of Brexits with none of the above and a completely different 'Brexit'.

I think you, or anyone else would struggle to convince me that 'Leave' is as clear an option as 'Remain'.
 
You're absolutely right. Leave was always going to be a lot more open ended than to remain. However, when the decision was made that we should leave, there should have been 'losers consent' which was to accept the result and would have allowed us as a country to move forward (for better or worse) and try to do the best that we could with our new start. It's really sad that that has not been the case though and many have failed to accept the result of the referendum from day 1. Not only have they not accepted it, they've thrown obstacles in the way at literally every possible opportunity, even up to today when we were supposed to be having a final vote on a compromise deal. They wouldn't even allow that to happen. Many in the media have been complicit in this also, hopefully just due to personal preference of individual journalists as opposed to a 'company line'.

No-one will convince me that many in parliament have not been, and are not still, trying to extend it to death. Their wish is to cancel Brexit completely and they have calculated that if they extend it enough that we'll end up in a situation somewhere down the line that we'll revoke.
 
@BarryZola I don't disagree with much of that, but equally don't think it would have been different the other way around. Farage and UKIP would have surged to new heights had the result switched, we'd be in the exact same scenario.

I would also suggest that a lot of what you describe was created and whipped up by the May government and their inability to bring the 'losers' into the conversation until the eleventh hour, blinded by their dogged pursuit of an outcome that would keep the Tory party together, rather than bring the country closer.
 
I agree with May not helping the cause much for the reasons that you state. I'm not 100% sure about how much traction Farage and UKIP would have got had the result gone the other way. I'd like to think that 'most' would have given up and accepted the result, but we'll never know as that situation never occurred. I know for a fact that personally I would have begrudgingly accepted it and moved on. I already had actually accepted it to be honest and it came as a complete shock to me when 'Leave' won the vote. You'll just have to believe me, or not, on that one.
 
Farage would have gone on forever had the vote been remain, evident by the fact that he retired when he thought it was job done and went crawling back to get himself re-elected when it looked to be a different outcome, hijacking another grass routes political party in the process (2 for 2 there Nigel) because he'd burnt so much of the bridge with the original party he jumped in with the water was on fire too.

But the big difference is it would have been much easier for the country to dismiss him and tell him to stfu, rather than what has happened.
 
DiogoJ42 said:
Just for clarity, I'm saying that at this point nomatter WHAT the outcome, there will be riots.
Click to expand...
Whatever the outcome.

Around half the county will be upset.

The government will carry on doing us over and blame brexit.
Add half the county not wanting brexit to begin with, adding the austerity, stripping NHS. Will make the perfect condition for @DiogoJ42 's prediction.

Sent from my SM-J600FN using Tapatalk
 
Interesting prediction from Theo Usherwood at LBC... (click to read the 4 or 5 Tweets in the thread).

 
Rick said:
Interesting prediction from Theo Usherwood at LBC... (click to read the 4 or 5 Tweets in the thread).

Click to expand...


This could swing one of two ways depending on what the EU offers extension wise. Either they offer no extension or an indefinite one which. First would force though a deal second would effectively cancel Brexit
 
Doublethink said:
This could swing one of two ways depending on what the EU offers extension wise. Either they offer no extension or an indefinite one which. First would force though a deal second would effectively cancel Brexit
Click to expand...
No extension is very risky for the EU, but it is possible - I don't think we're close to that, it's still a bargaining chip.

They're not going to offer an indefinite extension regardless, they could offer a 'long' extension to allow for something to occur that was decided to 'fix' the indecision in parliament, either an election or referendum.

Both in Europe and domestically, I don't think anyone is thinking that you can revoke A50 without either or both of those two exercises.
 
I really can't see any party getting a majority any time soon. The country is too divided, and both sides have lost faith in the whole concept of government.

This may be my best ever chance to sieze power.
... But I will need an army of loyal bullet fodder followers, each of whom will be greatly rewarded / remembered once my glorious reign is secured.
Who's with me‽
 
I can't see the Tories getting a majority if we haven't "left" come the 31st, a lot of the support will go to Brexit Party...

I mean remember the last GE that was called so the Tories could cement their majority? That went well...

Meanwhile Corbyn is a problem for Remain supporters, because he's been a rubbish opposition for 3 years... But they are still the biggest chance of the Tories not winning...

Pretty much no chance as things are going of there being any majority in a GE...


As for the whole thing in general, this was always an advisory referendum (because if it wasn't, one of the Leave campaigns would've been formally charged); but weirdly as soon as the result came through it was kind of ignored?

What should have happened is that the result was leave, the government went off, made a plan to see how viable it was (leaving will cost UK household £X each, but we can get £Y back in the economy) and then do another vote with us 100% knowing what we would get...

The issue with Leave was always the open nature of it, especially when had those campaigning promising everything under the sun then changing tack when they actually won... Farage admitting on the result morning that some claims were wrong a prime example...
 
I don't think that the issue was the "open" nature of leaving.
I think the real issue was the vote left the nation completely divided.
49 to 51 was never, ever a clear majority decision by the electorate, it simply highlighted a clear division within the community.
I voted to leave, and my mind hasn't changed after three years, but I never wanted, or expected a hard exit.
After such a close result, I expected a sensible, negotiated withdrawal fudge, dragged out over time, resulting in a wishy washy step away from a federal Europe.
Doesn't even look like we will be getting that.
Divisions on the right wing created this unholy mess.
Politicians generally have made the whole screwed up mess into a complete circus.

We never fully entered the community in Europe, we were seperated by geography, by a refusal to adopt the currency, and an unwillingness by many, on the left and right, to accept full union.

Time for us all to support Diogo in sorting it all out.
 
rob666 said:
After such a close result, I expected a sensible, negotiated withdrawal fudge, dragged out over time, resulting in a wishy washy step away from a federal Europe.
Click to expand...
Is that not what we already had though? For the reasons you outline here;

rob666 said:
We never fully entered the community in Europe, we were seperated by geography, by a refusal to adopt the currency, and an unwillingness by many, on the left and right, to accept full union.
Click to expand...
"Germany +" to borrow a phrase.

I think we'll look back and wonder how huge numbers of people including a not insignificant chunk who had never voted before, decided that leaving the EU would fix anything.
 
There are a lot more "Leave" options that "remain". Remain is guaranteed to win a confirmatiry referendum by that fact, hence People's Vote is just a front for Remain.

On the other hand even if remain does win and quash the first Brexit vote I can not see the UK being allowed to keep its privileges it kept before- Euro and standard EU terms will likely be imposed as a punishment from the EU for the Brexit process and to make an example for other counties considering leave
 
A People's Vote is not a front for remain if there are two options, Remain and Leave with Boris's Deal.

However I agree if you want to present more than two options then a FPTP vote wouldn't be suitable and some sort of PR would be needed. Voters would have to rank their preferences instead if just putting an x in a box.
 
Why would a Remain result involve us losing our current EU deal/position?

Indeed Remain as a result was literally "keep things as are", and it's unlikely that we'd be forced to change currency or "accept standard EU terms" (I don't know what that means, most EU legislation is based off UK stuff)... If we left and THEN rejoined then it's a different kettle of fish mind...
 
Alsty said:
A People's Vote is not a front for remain if there are two options, Remain and Leave with Boris's Deal.

However I agree if you want to present more than two options then a FPTP vote wouldn't be suitable and some sort of PR would be needed. Voters would have to rank their preferences instead if just putting an x in a box.
Click to expand...

Agreed on the whole however you can't deny that the majority of people's vote supporters are pro remain and the protests yesterday in the name of people's vote was a sea of EU flags and signs saying "Brexit stole my future" with marchers heckling of pro-leave MPs as they left the house.

I understand that Remain wants things to remain the same if article 50 is withdrawn I'm just saying that the EU may not agree with this and make conditions on remain e.g. loss of existing privileged, vetos and joining the single currency
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top