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The Brexit Thread

The Scotland question is tricky, constitutionally they cannot hold a referendum without parliament handing that power over. With the Tory majority that is unlikely to happen. I think Sturgeon is playing a long game, use the next decade to create the narrative that Scotland has no say in its own destiny and wait until political pressure in on the SNP’s side.

The more interesting prospect is Irish reunification, if there becomes a potential that opinion is towards reunification then the UK has to allow a border poll due to the good Friday agreement. If the UK wants it’s US trade deal they won’t be able to wiggle out of it as there is a huge American Irish contingent in congress and despite what Trump likes to pretend, all trade deals have to be ratified by congress.

This could then add energy to the Scottish independence project.

Then little England’s vote in 2016 will have created a true little England.
 
Scotland can have as many referendums as they like, they don't need the permission of Westminster to hold one, what they need the permission of is to act upon the result.

It's going to be very interesting to see what happens after we leave.
 
IanSR said:
Scotland can have as many referendums as they like, they don't need the permission of Westminster to hold one, what they need the permission of is to act upon the result.

It's going to be very interesting to see what happens after we leave.
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True to a point but the general consensus is the SNP don’t want to go down that route, the risk is you end up with voter fatigue. It’s better to ask to do one now with the brexit mandate they have, get a refusal then build on the anti-English sentiment for a while. I have Scottish friends who voted to stay part of the UK in the last ref now very much on the split side now.

You can like or dislike Sturgeon but she isn’t a fool when it comes to politics.
 
Half my family is Scottish, it's a strange mentality, at election time they'll vote SNP in a heartbeat, but they don't trust the SNP as far as they can throw them and I quote "would never vote for independence".

Strange mentality as I said.
 
IanSR said:
Half my family is Scottish, it's a strange mentality, at election time they'll vote SNP in a heartbeat, but they don't trust the SNP as far as they can throw them and I quote "would never vote for independence".

Strange mentality as I said.
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The only reason I can come up for this is they live in a constituency where only the Tories or the SNP will win?
 
Dave said:
True to a point but the general consensus is the SNP don’t want to go down that route, the risk is you end up with voter fatigue. It’s better to ask to do one now with the brexit mandate they have, get a refusal then build on the anti-English sentiment for a while. I have Scottish friends who voted to stay part of the UK in the last ref now very much on the split side now.

You can like or dislike Sturgeon but she isn’t a fool when it comes to politics.
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The thing is, Indy is Brexit.

You can take a speech by Farage, change the words 'EU' to 'UK' and make it come out of Sturgeon's mouth. They make many of the same claims and arguments.

The problem is, in a second indy ref, you'll get the people who voted for independence the first time AND a % of people who didn't want brexit, all voting for independence. It's only going to go one way isn't it?

It's a bit like our last election. Tory voters + others who wanted to 'get brexit done' = a massive majority for the Tories.
 
Only reason the Scots stayed in the first place was because of being told they'd not be able to rejoin the EU.

Then we left anyway.

Come next year when the real effects are in place (because of the transition, but that'll be ignored to make sure that any issues aren't the fault of Brexit itself) we'll see the true fallout. I would not at all be surprised with a reunification of Ireland and and Scottish independence. Especially if we don't get a deal together.
 
RoyJess said:
Am I the only one watching the disrespectful behaviour Farage and his Brexit party (and a few others) in the EU parliament a disgrace and don't certainly make me feel proud to be British at the moment.
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Honestly, I think the most interesting thing here is reaction to it, if you watch, the...speaker? Is more offended by the flag rather than the disruptive behaviour...its also worth noting how they only took issue with that and not with everyone singing old lands eye and waving EU flags.

This is one of my reasons for wanting to leave, because the EU and its power structure is biased against the UK...its not something thats really provable, but me and a lot of brexiteers could see it years ago.

Regardless, while I suspect it will just be bitter remoaning, I want to keep an open mind so can anyone point me to one of the zietghiest leaders of the remain side, (the Sargon of Akkad, of remainers, if you will)
I'm interested to see how it differs from the leave side...bar the obvious...
 
We got preferential rebates, CAP, weren't forced to join the Euro, nor the Schengen agreement, but sure the EU was biased against us.
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To be honest, even if they were biased against the UK, it's all our own fault. Throwing our toys out of the pram whenever something happened, good or bad, just so parliament can pretend we're still a world power for another few months. Hey ho, back to glorious isolationism it is.
 
I think there's a rule that you can't display own country colours or something.

But we had to show old Jerry what for one more time whilst looking like a bunch of spoilt children.

It's like with the celebrations. It's turned into a complete us versus them when there's not really anything that is against us. It's just illogical as it serves to split people apart moreso.

But of course, that's the point. And when nothing has changed tomorrow we'll be told how project FEAR was wrong. Then once we actually leave out the transition next year anything that's an issue isn't due to Brexit as we officially left tonight. So it's probably us people being negative, unpatriotic and not believing in our country whilst the Americans send us chlorinated chicken and expensive meds.
 
Britford said:
Honestly, I think the most interesting thing here is reaction to it, if you watch, the...speaker? Is more offended by the flag rather than the disruptive behaviour...its also worth noting how they only took issue with that and not with everyone singing old lands eye and waving EU flags.

This is one of my reasons for wanting to leave, because the EU and its power structure is biased against the UK...its not something thats really provable, but me and a lot of brexiteers could see it years ago.

Regardless, while I suspect it will just be bitter remoaning, I want to keep an open mind so can anyone point me to one of the zietghiest leaders of the remain side, (the Sargon of Akkad, of remainers, if you will)
I'm interested to see how it differs from the leave side...bar the obvious...
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I think your interpretation of the events in the EU parliament ignores the spirit of what was happening. On one side you had a multinational group of people saying “we wish you well” to the UK, on the other you had some rather repugnant disrespectful behaviour from the Brexit party basically saying “up-yours”. Then again you refer to a group of people who used facts and experts to come to the conclusion that Brexit was a bad idea as “bitter remoaners” so I’m not convinced you will have any issue with the insults farage secretes when ever he opens his mouth.

Remain doesn’t really have “leaders”, if you want a good well reasoned person who speaks for remain then look at Femi, if you want to see a Eurosceptic who thinks that Brexit is being tackled in the wrong way then David Allen Green is a good tweeter.
 
It's hardly surprising the UK isn't the closest of EU members when the country has opted out of half of the major changes in the EU.

To say it's biased is true, but who caused the bias ... The UK.
 
speedy said:
The only reason I can come up for this is they live in a constituency where only the Tories or the SNP will win?
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I think you can vote SNP in elections with a view they will have the mandate to push forward reforms in health and education without supporting independence. It's always going to be a defining issue but the requirement for mandating a referendum by Westminster means its quite low risk.

In terms of the "bias", the EU and its ways & means are so complicated and multi-faceted, either side can spin things however they wish to prove a point. It's hugely complex.

Imagine deciding the future with an entirely nebulous question that gives an entirely nebulous answer. Imagine.
 
Britford said:
This is one of my reasons for wanting to leave, because the EU and its power structure is biased against the UK...its not something thats really provable, but me and a lot of brexiteers could see it years ago.
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I don't particularly want to get involved at this stage, but "it's not something that's really provable, but I could see it years ago" is one of the funniest and most telling things I've ever read on this forum.

This is a cult of madness.
 
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