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The Brexit Thread

GaryH said:
I strongly believe that the perfect storm of Covid, Brexit and the war in Ukraine is why we are having difficulties at the moment, as are other EU countries. Growth in Germany forecast to be just as bad as us, and if I recall they were the 2nd biggest contributors financially to the EU after the UK.

If it were just Brexit, and not covid on top, and not the war on top, I don’t think things would be soo bad right now. Energy costs are the main drivers of inflation, not Brexit.

We can moan all we want about it, but there are multiple factors at play here and it’s now a case of getting on with things and getting through this difficult time.
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Brexit is one of 3 factors, and the absurd closing off of frictionless trade with our nearest neighbours is now being seen for what it is.

Utterly mental.

When there are issues such as Ukraine and Covid, the UK will suffer more than most due to its own suicide note.

We made it worse for ourselves and we will all pay for it.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk
 
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Yeah Brexit has made things harder at the moment but covid and the war have made things even more harder. We will get through this. Brexit was never going to fix things overnight, it was always going to take time. No one saw a pandemic and a war in Europe coming which has caused problems no one could have foreseen.

Yet here we are constantly moaning about Brexit when people in Ukraine are freezing and starving to death.

Kind of puts our problems into perspective really.

We should be thankful we can still get food in our shops, water from our taps and electricity to power our heating even if things are more expensive at the moment.

Quite frankly the constant whinging about Brexit is getting monotonous now. Whether you voted leave or remain people need to accept it happened, the pandemic happened and the war is happening, we need to look past it, accept there are hard times ahead and get on with things knowing we will get through this. Brexit might in the long run work out, or we may end up rejoining the EU, who knows what the future holds.

Alternatively, people can always move to a ”better” European country where they may be happier.
 
tayspru said:
Except we can’t move anywhere in Europe easily now thanks to …. Brexit
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No automatic right but also no bar on a person applying for residence just like anyone else would from outside the EU. If you meet that countries criteria then you can live there.
 
GaryH said:
Yeah Brexit has made things harder at the moment but covid and the war have made things even more harder. We will get through this. Brexit was never going to fix things overnight, it was always going to take time. No one saw a pandemic and a war in Europe coming which has caused problems no one could have foreseen.
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What was Brexit actually going to fix? This is what I never understood.
The people coming here under freedom of movement are needed to fill low paid jobs. The regulations are in our laws anyway and generally provide safety improvements.
Businesses are closing down due to the extra export paperwork.
 
The argument that "somebody else has it worse than you" is such a false one. By that logic nobody can criticise anything, ever.
GaryH said:
Quite frankly the constant whinging about Brexit is getting monotonous now. Whether you voted leave or remain people need to accept it happened
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People bitched about being in the EU for decades. Why didn't they accept it had happened?

I will never accept something that has made this country poorer, tarnished our international reputation and taken away our freedoms... for absolutely no benefit whatsoever.

The good news is the tide is turning already. People are realising that leaving the EU has not solved any of the problems it was claimed to solve.

Fh7dEpDWIAIdxaM.jpg
Source: YouGov
GaryH said:
Alternatively, people can always move to a ”better” European country where they may be happier.
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Ah this one again. Why didn't Brexiteers move to another country such as Australia or America instead of whining about the EU?
 
GaryH said:
Quite frankly the constant whinging about Brexit is getting monotonous now. Whether you voted leave or remain people need to accept it happened
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A very specific hardline version of Brexit happened, which has different consequences versus what we would have seen with a different Brexit. A version of Brexit that was chosen in no small part due to Conservative party management reasons and how ungovernable the parliamentary party has become.

It's an entirely reasonable conversation to have.
 
Alsty said:
It's an entirely reasonable conversation to have.
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It is but it’s also happened, just like policies of previous governments (not just conservative happened) and made people poorer whether we voted for them or not. Over time things change and either Brexit will pay off as time goes on, or we will reapply to join the EU in the future.

All the EU is struggling at the moment, particularly Germany, while other states are not far behind. Yes the UK has been hit harder I accept that. Is it the fault of Brexit or government policies, that’s to be contested but to think everything is rosy over in EU land is just not true.

Anyway, I’ll duck out of this forum because like I said, the constant whining is just getting monotonous.
 
GaryH said:
Yet here we are constantly moaning about Brexit when people in Ukraine are freezing and starving to death.
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Given the current cost of living crisis going on there's a number of people in the UK having to choose between heating or food. So not the best example given that it's a problem of our own doing rather than the last ditch for the history books of a crazed dictator.

Perhaps if the country were in a positive outlook things would be different. But the goalposts kept being moved, assurances have since been proven wrong (food prices will be cheaper, etc.) and the government has been an absolute state because of Tory infighting.

Brexit is the root cause, exacerbated by global crisis. However our leader didn't bother with the pandemic (didn't attend the COBRA meetings then tried to push the whole "it's not that bad" story by visiting patients), and again the government have done the bare minimum to help those struggling at the current moment.

End of the day Brexit was a massive decision and directed the country's future. And choices were made that were for the benefit of the few rather than the many. We go round in circles because there's so many things going on that are a direct result of the decision. People would be far more accepting of things if the government weren't such a mess (oven-ready deals that THEY signed that a week late THEY don't agree with).


Must be said though that immigration figures this year are skewed by Ukraine, Hong Kong and Afghanistan situations.
 
GaryH said:
It is but it’s also happened, just like policies of previous governments (not just conservative happened) and made people poorer whether we voted for them or not. Over time things change and either Brexit will pay off as time goes on, or we will reapply to join the EU in the future.
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That's literally the conversation we are having.
 
The big issue I see as well is that although other EU members have cost of living and inflation issues at the moment, they are able to buy and sell betwween each other so businesses can still function.
Whereas on top of the inflation issues, many businesses in the UK are selling up or closing down due to the export issues to the EU.
www.theguardian.com

I once sold cheese to Europe. Brexit took my business to the brink of destruction | Simon Spurrell

Prohibitive export charges and paperwork have shattered the bright future promised to small British businesses like mine, says Simon Spurrell, director of the Cheshire Cheese Company
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
GaryH said:
It is but it’s also happened, just like policies of previous governments (not just conservative happened) and made people poorer whether we voted for them or not. Over time things change and either Brexit will pay off as time goes on, or we will reapply to join the EU in the future.

All the EU is struggling at the moment, particularly Germany, while other states are not far behind. Yes the UK has been hit harder I accept that. Is it the fault of Brexit or government policies, that’s to be contested but to think everything is rosy over in EU land is just not true.

Anyway, I’ll duck out of this forum because like I said, the constant whining is just getting monotonous.
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Brexit supporting people keep pointing at the current inflation in the EU as a reason brexit isn’t the cause, however this ignores one key issue. The EU (and most other countries in the world) had recovered their economy to pre-pandemic levels prior to the Ukraine war, the UK did not and the only economic drag we had unique to us was brexit.

So yes the war and subsequent fuel price increase has impacted everyone, but the UK didn’t get the post covid - prewar boost the rest of the globe experienced, hence why our cost of living pressures are so much higher.

Basic analogy, if you are in a race and already 30 metres behind the rest of the pack, it doesn’t matter if the rest of the runners slow down at the same rate you do due to exhaustion, they are still winning.

There is one other pressure point the UK had that most other countries didn’t and that was the ideological austerity post the 2008 crash, this wasn’t required to the extent it was implemented and now means we have limited options when we actually need some (plus we had downgraded wages so much people can’t tolerate any further reduction), but as that was also Tory policy go figure.

Brexit will bring no tangeable benefit as it ignore the realities of geography, a softer brexit would have limited the harm but it was only ever going to be a damaging exercise that only favoured disaster capitalists (which curiously it’s major backers like Mogg and co are).
 
GaryH said:
Quite frankly the constant whinging about Brexit is getting monotonous now. Whether you voted leave or remain people need to accept it happened, the pandemic happened and the war is happening, we need to look past it, accept there are hard times ahead and get on with things knowing we will get through this. Brexit might in the long run work out, or we may end up rejoining the EU, who knows what the future holds.

Alternatively, people can always move to a ”better” European country where they may be happier.
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That first paragraph stinks. Your 'like or lump it' attitude is the opposite of what democracy is. Why should I, as a a fierce remain voter who opposed Brexit at almost every conceivable level, suddenly just say 'OK' when it's plainly damaging the country more than it otherwise would have been. Of course, I accept the result of the vote (notwithstanding the arguments against the utter lies spouted during the campaign about the benefits of leaving) but it's your kind of spouting that has led to the Tories and Labour almost struggling to even mention Brexit for fear of being labelled 'anti-democratic' by the press. I totally reject this nonsense and think it's vital that Brexit discussion isn't shut down. It is our new reality and its difficulties need bringing into the light of mainstream politics so we can get it right. That should include a shift towards closer alignment to maximise ease of trade whilst retaining control over immigration, as I believe that was the main reason the 'leave' vote won.

The second however, I wholly agree with. I did a French degree (spent a year living in France as part of my Erasmus year) and speak the language fluently, along with a good grasp of German. Myself and my partner have mooted the idea of moving abroad at some stage in our lives - although, funnily enough, your Brexit vote made that somewhat harder...
 
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Every time any of them get actual questions that someone knows the situation in detail they fluster.

Only answer was that there's now free trade with Aus and NZ. Doesn't matter if his main business involves Europe to him (presumably most British business is European based).

See what happened with Braverman when challenged about refugee status. The complete nonsense about asylum status shows that very few of those in charge actually have a clue what they're doing.

Also right is that Brexit has become a dirty word. Conservatives don't want to admit they've messed up and Labour are scared to mention it in case they scare off the voters they need to win elections. An absolute state.
 
The cruel ironies of Brexit, from yesterday's Independent

Brexit means no British manufacturer able to build UK government’s ministerial cars

UK carmakers ‘unable to meet the requirements’ of the Metropolitan Police protection service

The government’s next fleet of armoured ministerial cars will be made in Germany because supply chain issues hampered by Brexit mean no British manufacturer is able to meet its requirements, The Independent has learned.

The Metropolitan Police announced over the summer that it was ditching armoured Jaguar XJs for Baden-Württemberg-assembled Audi A8s – prompting criticism.

But it has now been revealed that the decision was made because there no British car maker is “able to meet the requirements of the tender”, forcing the Met’s hand.
...

Jaguar has provided British government ministerial cars for more than three decades but its plants have had to pause production at points over the past few years due to problems obtaining parts
...

In 2016, the UK produced around 1.7 million cars a year, but since the EU referendum, this figure has steadily declined to just 786,000, according to the latest numbers from the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders.

Link without paywall
 
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European car manufacturers have also paused production over the last 2-3 years, it’s to do with supply issues globally due to covid not Brexit, try buying a new car, 12 months waiting list at least.
It’s getting boring to keep reading that it’s down to Brexit now to be honest.
 
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