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The Brexit Thread

Same age range???...please don't tar and feather all the more mature people "of the same age" as being of the same politics.
Elderly person here, solid left winger, absolutely zero issues with immigration, absolutely no interest in imperial measures.
But guilty of getting bored with relentless age prejudice.
People of a certain age range...
Go Thoosie.
 
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Hungary is in the Schengen Area and as such has virtually open borders. The paralysis of the Conservative Party is because what its business donors want - open borders, free flow of cheaper labour and wage erosion - are generally not things that can be pitched to the electorate on a populist platform.

The Tories have been able to have many faces and lie on many fronts for years on the issue of Europe and largely get away with it electorally, but now finally, it seems that they will be fully exposed on the issue in a maximum of two years time, when the clock finally runs out.
 
AstroDan said:
Although technically small-fry in the greater scheme of things, spare a thought for Gibraltarians - who voted 95.9% to remain in the EU - who are having to deal with this mess post-Brexit.

A permanent deal and arrangement is still not in place.


From: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu1pBTvWMFk
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I resolved never to post in this thread again but the Gibraltarian issue is something I care about. I am fascinated by the place and really want to visit. The Gibraltarians would rather stay with Britain, even if that means leaving the EU, for there loyalty we should find a solution. Plus if Spain's government changes to a coalition including VOX the far right party, then Gibraltar really is screwed. A deal needs to be reached before that happens. VOX has bullied Gibraltar for years and they shouldn't be allowed to do so, with or without Brexit. We mustn't let Spain dictate Gibraltar, which is why a deal must be reached for the sake of the Gibraltarians.
A deal in principle should actually make life slightly easier for Gibraltarians, having them join the Schengen border agreement which also benefits the Spanish workers who travel daily to Gibraltar for work. as it's much richer than the surrounding region of Spain.
 
Gibraltar is full of gangsters, people traffickers, dodgy money laundering and drug and booze smugglers though isn't it?
That is where the majority of the "riches" have roots.
No wonder they want to keep the status quo.
Time to give the place back to the country it belongs to really.
 
rob666 said:
Gibraltar is full of gangsters, people traffickers, dodgy money laundering and drug and booze smugglers though isn't it?
That is where the majority of the "riches" have roots.
No wonder they want to keep the status quo.
Time to give the place back to the country it belongs to really.
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Where are you basing this information? Because from all indicators I can see none of those is true. It's also not a tax haven (like several overseas territories) as it was part of the EU tax system for over 20 years, citizens payed the similar rate of tax of other EU countries.
How does it belong to Spain? What right does Spain have to take a territory that they signed over to the British forever in a treaty? If the people want to remain British why should they be forced to be given back to Spain? What right does the British government have to do that undemocratically?
 
Try typing "Gibraltar smuggling" into your search engine...975,000 results.
People smuggling, money laundering, drugs, tobacco and dodgy money manipulation for the last couple of hundred years.
The OECD says Gib is a tax haven.
Questions in the House about the massive problem back in the 1880's, and it has only got worse.
Spain signed it over in 1713 because it failed to win it back in battle...and has been asking for it back as its own land since the 1960's.
It is another last dodgy holding on in a long gone grubby empire.
 
rob666 said:
Try typing "Gibraltar smuggling" into your search engine...975,000 results.
People smuggling, money laundering, drugs, tobacco and dodgy money manipulation for the last couple of hundred years.
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Yes and the majority of them pushed by the Spanish media, wonder why that is? Also Gibraltar has got one of the strictest tobacco laws in the world, the Gibraltar tobacco act gives the police far more powers than here.
rob666 said:
The OECD says Gib is a tax haven.
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And the UN considers it a non self-governing territory, despite it having a democratically approved constitution that consists of a completely democratic system. Just because an international body calls a territory or country something doesn't mean that's the case.
rob666 said:
Questions in the House about the massive problem back in the 1880's, and it has only got worse.
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Gotten better, Spain opened the border after pressure to stop bullying the people of Gibraltar.
rob666 said:
Spain signed it over in 1713 because it failed to win it back in battle...and has been asking for it back as its own land since the 1960's.
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Right by your logic Belgium shouldn't exist? They signed over any right to the land but even if that is irrelevant, the people of Gibraltar have voted in two referendums and have voted to remain a British overseas territory. It's called self-determination, and they determined themselves. completely democratically they didn't want to be part of Spain. If you believe in democracy then you believe that Gibraltar shouldn't be part of Spain until the citizens want it.
rob666 said:
It is another last dodgy holding on in a long gone grubby empire.
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It's current position is far more like a crown dependency, like Jersey or Guernsey, should they be given to France? It has a constitution, and therefore there is nothing colonial about it's current relationship with the UK. Admittedly, it was once a colony, however I don't think you can call it that now.
 
Jersey and Guernsey do not have the same level of dodgy background, and are off the British coast!
The government wanted to give the land back to Spain on at least half a dozen occasions, but were held back by "popular local vested interests".
Spain started asking for its land back in the 1730's, and the British Government tried to hand it over, several times, but the locals kicked up a big fuss, because they had a tidy number going on, and did not want close regulation from the real, true, local government.
Between 2006 and 2011, Gibraltar increased its imports of tobacco by 300%.
That is a massive increase in smokers in a small independent territory isn't it?
But it has damn strict backy laws!
The Spanish know it is being smuggled into Spain to avoid tax...and so does the EU.
 
Rick said:
ITV would make that in a heartbeat.
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Even if it isn't true?
rob666 said:
Jersey and Guernsey do not have the same level of dodgy background, and are off the British coast!
The government wanted to give the land back to Spain on at least half a dozen occasions, but were held back by "popular local vested interests".
Spain started asking for its land back in the 1730's, and the British Government tried to hand it over, several times, but the locals kicked up a big fuss, because they had a tidy number going on, and did not want close regulation from the real, true, local government.
Between 2006 and 2011, Gibraltar increased its imports of tobacco by 300%.
That is a massive increase in smokers in a small independent territory isn't it?
But it has damn strict backy laws!
The Spanish know it is being smuggled into Spain to avoid tax...and so does the EU.
Click to expand...
As this is a thread on brexit this will be my last post on the matter. If the EU was so concerned they would've sanctioned Gibralter while it was a member, clearly they weren't. This tale of smugglers and tax avoidence is something the Spanish nationalist media pump out, they have done since before Spain discovered democracy. They do have strict tobacco laws, however as you rightly point out people seem to think purchasing them in Gibralter is cheaper, when in actual fact there is barely any difference then buying them in Spain. It's like the duty free shops at the airport, people think they're cheaper because they're led to believe that to be the case.
Last time the government tried to 'give the land back' it resulted in huge backlash, which then meant the UK government helped Gibraltar write a new constitution which means the UK government is not allowed to negotiate with Spain on the soverntiy of Gibraltar without a Gibraltarian elected politician present.
The locals 'kicked up a fuss' because A) Spain was a dictatorship who didn't care about closing the border and stopping medicine from getting through and B) they feel British. Spain still isn't very nice to the locals, they get threats, and incursions on there waters constantly, why would they want to go to a country that can't even treat them well? Self-determination grants the Gibraltarians the right to there land, as they live there, they chose to remain British whether or not any of us like it. It's there decision.
 
I’m currently on holiday in Europe and spending a couple of days in Paris. Thanks to Brexit, as an under 26 year old, I am no longer eligible for free entry to a number of stunning galleries, museums and attractions.

🎉
 
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