The Nemesis retrack; will it be a fluke?

[Matt N]

Hi guys. As most of you probably know, Nemesis is being retracked in preparation for its 30th anniversary in 2024. This is a rather unusual event in the history of Alton Towers; as far as I’m aware, no ride has ever had a full retrack or like for like replacement. Nemesis was deemed special enough by the park to warrant rebuilding it like for like as opposed to replacing it with a brand new ride.

But that does call one thing into question for me. Will other rides receive the same treatment when their time comes, or will Nemesis be unique? It’s an interesting question… Nemesis is both the oldest SW and the first to be “removed”, so we’ve never had this question answered about any of the other SWs.

With that in mind, my question to you today is; do you think that the Nemesis retrack will be a fluke? Or do you think that other rides could receive the same treatment in the years to come?

Personally, I don’t think the Nemesis retrack will necessarily be a fluke. I think other rides could well receive the same treatment; certainly not all of them, but I think that some of Alton Towers’ current crop could receive the retrack treatment when their time comes.

In terms of which ones; my prediction for each of the non-Nemesis big coasters, I’d predict the following:

• Oblivion: Yes , this could get a retrack. The ride doesn’t take up an overly big area, and it’s similar to Nemesis in that removing and replacing it would be expensive and complicated. Given the complexity of the hole and how little track under stress there would be to replace, I think Oblivion could well be a fair bit easier to retrack than remove.
• Galactica: No, this probably won’t get a retrack. It doesn’t strike me as an overly popular ride, it takes up a considerable area (the largest area of any coaster on park, actually), and it would be a relatively easy ride to deconstruct and replace (it didn’t involve any major terraforming like Nemesis and Oblivion did, as far as I’m aware).
• Rita: No, this is extremely unlikely to get a retrack. Given that it’s only 17 years old and folk are already taking measurements of its area for an Intamin Blitz, I think Towers are unlikely to retrack it, personally. As much as I really like Rita, I’ll concede that there are more universally revered things they could do with the land.
• Thirteen: No, I don’t think this will get a retrack. Even now, only 11 years after its opening, there are considerably more advanced drop track coasters about, and I gather that the ride is not overly well liked aside from the drop track. It’s also becoming somewhat of a liability maintenance-wise as it ages, what with the whole “can’t run in the rain” thing and the other problems it’s been having.
• The Smiler: Yes, I think that this could very well get a retrack. I know that that might be a controversial opinion, but I’d argue that The Smiler is Alton Towers’ most famous and revered ride among the general park visiting populace, and it is similar to Nemesis in that it’s a very unique and compelling proposition on the worldwide roller coaster stage. I also think that given its high density and obscenely tightly packed layout, the possibility of them replacing it with something more revered is quite low. Say what you will about it, but I think that it’s the most well known and iconic ride at Alton Towers at present for the average visitor (and that’s not because of the crash, either), and it’s also quite possibly the most famous worldwide rollercoaster export the UK has to offer among the general populace. It’s constantly appearing in those “most insane roller coasters” videos and articles, and a lot of people know about it.
• Wicker Man: No, I don’t see this getting retracked. As much as I love Wicker Man, I’ll concede that it’s not an overly groundbreaking woodie on the world stage, and never was even when it opened. While it’s popular among the general park visiting populace now, time will tell as to whether it stands the test of time enough for a retrack… given that as I say, it’s not exactly a groundbreaking woodie from a track and train standpoint, I’m not sure I see it.

So all in all, then, I could see Oblivion and The Smiler both receiving retracks in the future, but I’m not sure about the others.

But do you agree with me in thinking that other rides might receive this treatment some day? Or do you think the Nemesis retrack will be a one-time event?

 

[DistortAMG]

Wickerman, being a woody, is getting re tracked all the time.

I think Oblvion could see a retrack. As it is very iconic.

 

[RIPCorky]

Oblivion will get a re track if it ever needs it. The ride length is relatively short and because it's B&M you have assurance it'll last another 20-30 years.

Galactica is a tricky one, you say it's not popular but it always has a reasonable queue even when running two stations. I think if they build another coaster behind it then it'll receive a new lease of life like the corkscrew did when Rita was built. Comes down to cost on this one

Rita will be sold off when the time comes, before it needs a re track. It can be reconstructed somewhere in europe into practically any park.

Thirteen will be removed, sold or scrapped, won't have the run the ride it replaced did.

Smiler, sorry but no. Build quality is just not there, rattling and jolting around the track whilst the parks B&M's are as smooth as the day they were built. As the ride ages and because of how and where it's been built maintenance will be an absolute nightmare. As soon as someone builds one more inversion somewhere it's nothing special to me. From what I've heard when the time comes it will be removed.

Wickerman isn't a conventional coaster, you kind of replace the wood as you go along and the steel track can also be done as and when. Wickerman will be triggers broom, yes but it's still the best thing they've built since Oblivion. Wickerman is a fantastic product for Alton Towers and everything Thirteen should have been.

Nemesis is being done because it's the parks flagship coaster without a chequered history. It's also guaranteed to last as long as the original. Also quite simply because it remains the best rollercoaster in the UK.

 

[Tom]

Not sure 'fluke' is the right phrase, but it is probably going to be rare if not the only example of it happening.

I am not sure if the underground section of Oblivion could be easily (if at all) replaced without excavation of the tunnel. This would be massively expensive, so may not get past budget holders as being worthwhile. I suspect Nemesis' retrack was far from a shoo-in, with the case having to be made quite strongly to the accountants, etc.

You could argue that The Smiler needs retracking now! With the world record worthy of holding onto, it could easily be backed while it is still the holder.

 

[Matt N]

Smiler, sorry but no. Build quality is just not there, rattling and jolting around the track whilst the parks B&M's are as smooth as the day they were built. As the ride ages and because of how and where it's been built maintenance will be an absolute nightmare. As soon as someone builds one more inversion somewhere it's nothing special to me. From what I've heard when the time comes it will be removed.

Nemesis is being done because it's the parks flagship coaster without a chequered history. It's also guaranteed to last as long as the original. Also quite simply because it remains the best rollercoaster in the UK.

One thing I would say to counter your opinion on Smiler is that The Big One at Blackpool Pleasure Beach lost the world height record to Fujiyama 26 years ago, lost the European height record to Silver Star 20 years ago, and even lost the UK speed record to Stealth 16 years ago (and it came within less than 10ft of losing the UK height record to Stealth as well, not to mention that it’s losing the UK height record to Exodus in 2024).

Yet that ride is still phenomenally popular, and Blackpool still pays to replace bits of its track every off-season. They’re currently in the process of doing a multi-phase retrack of it with Taziker.

And it must be said that The Big One is not riding the most smoothly itself, and given some of its history with collisions, wheels flying off, various bodged track pieces and supports, and various track replacements occurring since as early as 1997, it could be argued that The Big One does not have the “build quality” of a B&M either.

In spite of all this, people still love it, and the park still retracks it on a regular basis.

Given The Smiler’s iconic status and originality, why would Alton Towers treat it any differently, particularly if it still held the world record by the time the need for a retrack arose? You can say what you like about it, but by my observation, the average visitor absolutely loves it, and doesn’t really care about its chequered history or debatable build quality.

Also, I personally refute that Nemesis is Alton Towers’ flagship coaster. I don’t really think the park has one as such, but if it does, I think Smiler or Wicker Man would be much better candidates for such a title at present. I won’t deny that Nemesis is clearly a popular, well liked ride (if it wasn’t, they wouldn’t be retracking it), but I certainly don’t think it’s Alton Towers’ flagship coaster in this day and age. People certainly enjoy it a lot, but I don’t think it’s the park’s main draw for the average visitor in this day and age.

 

[Blackhole_Sun]

You would first have to understand the reasoning to re-track the rides. Nemesis still rides beautifully for its age. This is being re-tracked before it is essential and becomes either rough or unsafe. We don’t have the full details behind it other than it’s arguably the best rollercoaster in the UK (still). The big one has had a lot of re-track work, but let’s look at other older rides like Vampire which haven’t. Ironically also an Arrow designs coaster.

Thirteen is not likely to require one due to the lack of strain on the track. This would likely need work to the drop section rather than anything else. Would it be worth it? I could see them removing this one eventually. Would be just as effective to replace the whole ride. Maybe more so as it’s becoming troublesome.

Rita is nothing special, I agree, it will be sold off when the time comes I expect. Perhaps making way for a bigger project if 13 went also?

Wickerman is constantly having work done and is now their most popular ride at the towers (you can’t argue that point) while it is no world first it appeals to the masses and is a great deal of fun. I think this has overtaken Smiler which appears to get longer queues perhaps because of the throughput.

Oblivion would be a shoe in, short ride and B&M are ready and able to do it when needed.

Galactica is a rare ride, is it one of only 3 in the world? People never put this in their top 3 rides at Alton but it’s always got a decent sized queue. The area it takes up is huge and something bigger could go in it’s place. Given the quality of B&M coasters, I think it’s still got plenty of life left in it yet.

Smiler…. well, let’s be honest there are parts of that track that need sorting now. While they are there they should alter the layout in places to make the transitions smoother and the likeliness to stall much less. Currently still a world record holder, has a baffling fan base but if you move on in 10 years time perhaps we all would have moved on and it won’t be getting any smoother. Big one is still tallest coaster in UK (about to be broken) which is perhaps why it was kept so long. The area for Smiler is a small foot print, hard to see what replaces it, might sway the decision? My impression is that it would be removed as it stands when the time comes. Watch to see what happens with Saw.

 

[Danscott22]

I think Oblivion will get a re track, and The Smiler’s possible continued popularity may allow it to as well. We know Wicker Man gets constant re track so will probably be around for 50+ years I’d assume? I’m pretty certain that Galactica, Rita and Thirteen will go when it’s their time. That being said, none of the them really have high stress points do they? So they might last longer than expected, particularly Galactica and Thirteen.

 

[JAperson]

I could see Oblivion getting some major work at some point, doing it up would mean it would last a really long time.

Smiler's main problem is it's footers, due to that I could see the cost to completely do it up being ridiculous. I could see them replacing a few bits of track. I don't think it would get a full scale retrack, not just because of the cost but because of the reputation of the ride itself. I can only really see the Smiler lasting enough 10 years, I don't think it will last any longer.

 

[QTXAdsy]

Oblivion in theory is probably an easier retrack than Nemesis given how it doesn't suffer from much stress and being far shorter of a ride you could get a retrack done over a closed season rather than over a whole season like Nemesis is. Galactica I'm on the fence on its future so I'm undecided. Rita is likely to go, second most likely to leave after Spinball, Thirteen I feel might go though not sure when, Smiler might actually have some staying power...honestly what could they fit on that spot of land? Might be easier in keeping in rather than building something new though having newer lap bar trains might not do much for the long term but undoubtedly would make a hell of a difference to make it smoother. Wicker Man is a keeper for sure, in fact it'll likely last the longest with bits of wood replaced to which it becomes Trigger's broom with nothing left of the original left come 50 years' time.

However, the question I have is not what is the next retrack at Towers but rather what other Merlin park will be next. If this all goes well, then I have a sneaky thought that Vampire at Chessie could be in line for a retrack and I know it might not be as iconic as Nemesis, but that ride is the park's flagship ride after all these years and honestly given how hard it would be to build a new ride in that area given the planning restrictions on the park, it would be a lot easier if they just retracked it.

 

[JAperson]

Oblivion in theory is probably an easier retrack than Nemesis given how it doesn't suffer from much stress and being far shorter of a ride you could get a retrack done over a closed season rather than over a whole season like Nemesis is.

That's not necessarily true because how do they access the track that's in the hole? Do they have to dig up half of X-sector? or perhaps they could just replace the tube and leave the main spine of the track. I'm not sure how feasible that is though.

 

[QTXAdsy]

That's not necessarily true because how do they access the track that's in the hole? Do they have to dig up half of X-sector? or perhaps they could just replace the tube and leave the main spine of the track. I'm not sure how feasible that is though.

The section of the drop suffers the worst of the stress though you could focus on just giving the whole underground section the retrack and leave the rest as is so maybe you start from the exit hole and work backwards by removing the track before putting the new track in...tedious job if means putting the track in small sections but at least saves the cost of digging it all up.

 

[RIPCorky]

One thing I would say to counter your opinion on Smiler is that The Big One at Blackpool Pleasure Beach lost the world height record to Fujiyama 26 years ago, lost the European height record to Silver Star 20 years ago, and even lost the UK speed record to Stealth 16 years ago (and it came within less than 10ft of losing the UK height record to Stealth as well, not to mention that it’s losing the UK height record to Exodus in 2024).

Yet that ride is still phenomenally popular, and Blackpool still pays to replace bits of its track every off-season. They’re currently in the process of doing a multi-phase retrack of it with Taziker.

And it must be said that The Big One is not riding the most smoothly itself, and given some of its history with collisions, wheels flying off, various bodged track pieces and supports, and various track replacements occurring since as early as 1997, it could be argued that The Big One does not have the “build quality” of a B&M either.

In spite of all this, people still love it, and the park still retracks it on a regular basis.

Given The Smiler’s iconic status and originality, why would Alton Towers treat it any differently, particularly if it still held the world record by the time the need for a retrack arose? You can say what you like about it, but by my observation, the average visitor absolutely loves it, and doesn’t really care about its chequered history or debatable build quality.

Also, I personally refute that Nemesis is Alton Towers’ flagship coaster. I don’t really think the park has one as such, but if it does, I think Smiler or Wicker Man would be much better candidates for such a title at present. I won’t deny that Nemesis is clearly a popular, well liked ride (if it wasn’t, they wouldn’t be retracking it), but I certainly don’t think it’s Alton Towers’ flagship coaster in this day and age. People certainly enjoy it a lot, but I don’t think it’s the park’s main draw for the average visitor in this day and age.

I don't doubt the Smiler is a popular ride. But pretty much all of Alton Towers coasters have long queues. How much of that is down to operations and throughput? Black Hole even in it's later years you had to queue right round the tent then inside. You kind of go to Alton Towers to ride all their coasters, I wouldn't for a minute suggest people travel from afar just because Smiler is there. It's the UK's most popular theme park.

Problem with The Smiler is that it's dog rough and it's a long ride. Would a re track make it silky smooth? No, would it make it smoother? Yes But it would only last 5-6 years. I doubt Alton Towers would consider changing the restraints given the rides history.

It's probably a difference in opinion through generation here, but you imply Nemesis is outdated and old. Well one day Smiler will be too.

 

[Matt N]

I don't doubt the Smiler is a popular ride. But pretty much all of Alton Towers coasters have long queues. How much of that is down to operations and throughput? Black Hole even in it's later years you had to queue right round the tent then inside. You kind of go to Alton Towers to ride all their coasters, I wouldn't for a minute suggest people travel from afar just because Smiler is there. It's the UK's most popular theme park.

Problem with The Smiler is that it's dog rough and it's a long ride. Would a re track make it silky smooth? No, would it make it smoother? Yes But it would only last 5-6 years. I doubt Alton Towers would consider changing the restraints given the rides history.

It's probably a difference in opinion through generation here, but you imply Nemesis is outdated and old. Well one day Smiler will be too.

Perhaps Smiler on its own isn’t the sole reason that people travel to Alton Towers, but I don’t think that it’s any less of a draw for the average visitor than Nemesis is, probably more so. Given that Nemesis got retracked, I could certainly see Smiler getting the same treatment if it maintains its current popularity right through until the time comes. Which I think it could well do based on the fact that it’s nearly 10 years old now, not the newest ride on park anymore, and still holds considerable popularity and status with the average visitor.

I wasn’t trying to imply for a second that Nemesis is “old and outdated”, and I apologise if I did. It clearly remains a popular ride; if it wasn’t, it wouldn’t be receiving a retrack in the first place. However, I maintain that I don’t think it’s the park’s most popular draw with the average visitor these days, whereas Smiler is among Alton’s most popular draws. I think it’s almost definitely the park’s most famous and iconic coaster among non-enthusiasts (and not just due to the crash); it has a very strong brand image and it’s very well liked. It’s the only UK coaster that almost consistently appears in those “insane roller coasters” list articles and videos; I think that says something in itself.

I apologise if this is hard to hear, but I think it’s only enthusiasts who revere Nemesis as some untouchable, perfect entity that’s miles better than Alton’s other coasters. From my experience, the average guest seems to view it as a good ride, but not one with quite the same draw as Smiler or Wicker Man.

 

[WillPS]

Nothing about Nemesis strikes me as outdated. To be honest, none of the rollercoasters at Alton Towers feel outdated, in the way that Corkscrew, Black Hole and the Beastie did in their final years of operation.

They're all decaying but that's an entirely different thing.

When considering whether or not an investment in a retrack is likely, it's worth remembering the cost is most of the way to ordering an entirely new rollercoaster. That being the case it's probably worth considering what opportunities removal would create. Rita, Th13teen and Air all occupy prime plots which could easily be utilised by a new/different attraction. Smiler too although it's hard to imagine another ride utilising the footprint quite so intensively. I'm ignoring Spinball Whizzer as it's pretty obvious it'll go and be replaced by smaller attractions in time.

Removing Oblivion wouldn't free up much land at all, if it goes I suspect it'll be a development replacing the whole of X-Sector - which won't happen since Smiler is still doing what it needs to. So that probably makes Oblivion the primest candidate for large-scale life extension work; be that retracking, refurbishment or whatnot.

 

[Matt.GC]

It all comes back to economics. Do you retrack or remove? In Nemesis case I can understand it, you have a custom made pit there, the coaster is still very good, popular and iconic. With that in mind I'd say:

Oblivion maybe. Would be a massive job to replace the track in the cut and cover pit and the space can be used for something new. However, as it's a short ride you're probably only talking about the drop, the pit and the over bank presuming the lift hill, turnaround and break run remains as is (this new coaster Thorpe are building should be a dream to sort in 3 decades time since there's very little else to it other than the brake run and the lift hill). It's incredibly smooth for its age but that doesn't mean the steel isn't suffering from stress. It still remains iconic, popular and is the only B&M dive in the country.

The Smiler maybe. Yes it's popular but isn't built into the landscape as much as the likes of Nemesis and, to a lesser extent, Oblivion. They could easily remove and chuck something else there. It's also likely that it'll need work at a far younger age than the B&M's due to how poorly engineered it is. When the time comes it'll likely be how rough it is and how economical it'll be to carry on with it. It'll all depend on how popular it is at the time. If it becomes very unenjoyable then it'll be off to the scrappy. If it's record isn't beaten by then and it still has a high ridership then maybe. But you can bet your bottom dollar they won't be waiting until the ride hits 28 to make a decision on a Gerstlauer!

Rita no. The only coaster which I think is feeling dated now. It's not built too deeply into the landscape, can easily be bettered and the space used can easily accommodate something new. I have to fundamentally disagree that it'll be sold, it's over half way through its life and no replacement is on the horizon. I know for as long as I've been a member of this forum there's been people salivating over the park getting shot of it, but I think it'll run until it's toast and then be scrapped. Probably by 2030 ish.

Thriteen no. Similar reasons to above. I know it's more iconic and does something unique for the UK but it's a problem child that can't run in the rain, can't run in the cold and has had to be retrofitted with trim brakes. I can't see it being worth the hassle.

Wickerman yes. It gets partially retracked every year anyway. Might as well continue with that hadn't they and just update things like the trains and PLC as and when? It's not particularly a ferocious beast either by design so I can't see a point where, after sinking so much money into it over t the years they just decide to bin it off.

Air no. I can't see many strong reasons why they would?

Spinball no. Like Rita, will run its course then go scrap to cut some planning deal. But like Rita, I don't think that's as soon as some suspect.

RMT no. A few more years and I can see them just redeveloping the whole area.

Octonaughts, obviously no.

What I would hope for:

Oblivion Yes.
Smiler No.
Rita No.
Thirteen No.
Wickerman Yes (unless a better woodie comes along)
Air No.
Spinball No.
RMT not not sure, depends on what they do with the space.
Octonaughts No.

 

[Rob]

I'm not sure anything else at Towers will get a re-track. I don't count Wicker Man as part of this, as standard maintenance on wooden coasters requires partial re-tracking (unless you want it to become rather rough).

Re-tracking the whole of Oblivion would be a real pain, I'm not sure how easy it would be to get new track into the hole.

Re-tracking The Smiler would be far more cost than it is worth. I don't see it ever happening.

It is very rare that you see a full re-track of a coaster. Nemesis is a special exception because it is such an iconic coaster. Maybe it would not have been signed off had the CEO of Merlin not been involved in the original Nemesis project. I see it as Varney's parting gift to Atlon Towers (alongside what they are doing with Duel).

You also have to remember that a re-track is still going to be a significant cost with a lower return on investment than a brand new coaster.

 

[venny]

Getting the Oblivion track out of and then back into the hole would be a bit of a challenge, but I think the hole is large enough to manoeuvre the track sufficiently. The most compelling argument for that retrack is that the hole is such a large component of the ride both experientially and financially. I’m not sure how you’d reuse it and if it weren’t you’d essentially just be leaving a multi million pound hole unutilised.

 

[Rob]

Another thing to note about Oblivion is that the stressed places on the track and supports are likely to be less than those experienced by Nemesis. The point where the track is under the most stress, the bottom of the drop, is not suspended mid-air but instead well supported almost by the ground. I'm no expert but I'd imagine this means it will age better than Nemesis.

 

[Benjsh]

The smiler getting re-tracked in the future just wouldn't be worth the cost as it will be jolty again in no time. As somebody else said above.....there's no build quality to these Gerst coasters. They age terribly.

Blivvy probably wouldn't need much of the track replacing either as there's not much of the actual track that is put under that much stress. They could do that in no time.

 

[WVG]

Wicker Man: No, I don’t see this getting retracked. As much as I love Wicker Man, I’ll concede that it’s not an overly groundbreaking woodie on the world stage, and never was even when it opened. While it’s popular among the general park visiting populace now, time will tell as to whether it stands the test of time enough for a retrack… given that as I say, it’s not exactly a groundbreaking woodie from a track and train standpoint, I’m not sure I see it.

I disagree, Wicker Man could easily be retracked (and probably will) in the future with GCI titan track.