The new 2013 Merlin annual pass flask

[damos1indisguise]

Nice to see it is not just me

What is wrong with starting the flasks at the beginning of the year, January then letting them run Jan through Dec... Oh but that way they would be filling a small amount of flasks which the users pass date has expired with no renewal intention meaning they should no longer be refilling ... but if the flasks are supposed to last for a year then.

Why is there a huge amount of people that take the route it does not effect me so I am not bothered but as soon as a change hits them they are bothered about "oi you can't do that : "

Fact is if your current pass ends before say November 8th 2013 then it will effect you, a much larger portion than those bought between Nov-Jan. It means you either buy 2 flasks during 2013 or you skip some of 2013, with many having to miss a whole season.

 

[Wilsy]

Merlin are under no obligation to offer you the drinks capsules, its your own personal decision to buy them.

In the long term this way of doing things will be better, as everyone will get the same length of time to use their drinks capsules.

 

[TheMan]

The drinks capsules are both a good, and bad buy. You can probably refill them 100 times and they're still making profit out of you, that gooey "mix" tat that comes out of those taps is a cheap boxed up syrup that costs pennies per go ;D

You'd end up on "Supersize me" before you get into profit on them lol!

The profit on it is astronomical, money for old rope style, therefore Willsy (no offense dude) saying about under no obligation is correct, but they'll still be in profit on it, it's in their best interests to make this fair and reasonable. I had one one year, and that's the last time I bought a cup of post mix rubbish from any Merlin park (it's vile everywhere, not just Merlin).

So my advice to you guys is, if you don't like the new terms, don't buy it. If you like that stuff, even half a year if you visit a few times makes it good value for your average priced sugar water, and it seems that over two years it evens up anyway.

Merlin annoy me, haranguing, stealth prices everywhere, marketing blitz on park - but this one, straightening out the flask issue one awkward year, to make it easy to monitor and administer for staff long term, I have to agree with.

Will I buy one for half a year if I go in for an MAP this year? Er. NO.

There, choice made.

 

[damos1indisguise]

No they are not obliged to sell it to you but they are offering it for sale which means they are kind of saying a big screw you to those who would have to buy 2 within 1 year or lose out on a pass holder perk, the only fair way to do it is to have a system in place for those whose passes expire mid season such as part month payments using existing flasks or withdraw the flask up to the point where the last flasks were sold.

 

[TheMan]

It's too complex mate for a drink.

Pass holder perks? They are evaporating faster than a summer post mix with a leaking lid ;D

Merlin won't start listening until people stop buying.

So stop buying, don't buy a flask, and don't buy the crap whilst you're in there either.

I understand your point don't get me wrong, and there will be huge complaints because it's hard for even enthusiasts to understand, never mind the GP who couldn't care and will just wonder why the heck their drinks don't work no more (and why should they have to be enthusiasts to understand it?!).

But hey, this is Merlin. People buy, they carry on!

All I am saying to you guys is, if you want to make a difference, make a stand on it, but I also understand why Merlin are changing it, even if, once again, they seem to be trying to find the most awkward, confusing way to do it.

Hey man, it's the Merlin way ;D

 

[thefatone]

Guys, I can tell you a lot of things in everyday life (hint: Almost every single product you'll ever buy) which costs way way less than they sell it for. At the end of the day, some businesses need to cover their costs and make money. This is a way of doing it. They'll never recover costs from gate price alone.

Brilliant, so you'll have to show your pass every time you refill? Slowing down the throughputs at the various F&B outlets for no reason for the LOSS Merlin.

Technically what you're meant to do every time anyway, to prove you had a valid pass to use it. Towers was just the only one who didn't enforce it properly. Trust me, a whole 2 seconds to see it's been stamped and to see the date is not long whatsoever. Just get used to showing it.

 

[JoshC.]

I don't get people's problem with this?

Say your pass is up for renewal in July - you buy your refill cup at the same time, and it lasts till next July (so July 13 to July 14), right?

So, you still get a year's usage out of the cup, all you have to do is get it when you get your pass, as opposed to the beginning of the year. It means you can get them at any time in the year, meaning convenience and more money for Merlin.

It seems people are more making a fuss if the transitional period. Pretty much, the easy answer is to deal with it - remember, just a couple of years ago, these things weren't even avaliable. If you're really concerned, contact Merlin in some way to see if some form of leeway can be given for the few months before your pass expires, though I doubt there will be..

 

[GAGrathea]

It's the easiest way of introducing the new, ultimately better, system to annual passholders.

Having a drinks capsule is by no means a passholder entitlement and therefore while the conditions may not suit your own individual needs there's nothing wrong with them, and surely your purchase of the March->July (or whenever) capsule is negated by the fact that for the closed season and up to July the following year you'll have a valid capsule!

 

[Benzin]

I think though they could try and provide a cheap 'alternative' for those people who will have to fork out £16 twice over currently if they wish to have one over the whole season... That's what a few people are getting at...

Still one of the best perks Merlin have done mind these flasks... Especially when eating on park... It's just a really awkward transistion period for them to sort out...

 

[Rob]

Why is there a huge amount of people that take the route it does not effect me so I am not bothered but as soon as a change hits them they are bothered about "oi you can't do that : "

I was actually having a little joke hence why I said that. And this change doesn't really effect anyone at all.

Fact is if your current pass ends before say November 8th 2013 then it will effect you, a much larger portion than those bought between Nov-Jan. It means you either buy 2 flasks during 2013 or you skip some of 2013, with many having to miss a whole season.

Ok so you are ever so slightly worse off in 2013. But after that you are no worse off whatsoever. If your pass expires in July 2013, your capsule (if you got one) would be valid for half the season until then. But then when you renew you can get another capsule which is valid until July 2014, a full 12 months. And so on. So to be honest claiming that you are massively effected if your pass expires mid season is a bit silly. It's slightly unfortunate maybe but in the long run it makes no difference whatsoever. And changes have to be implemented one way or another.

 

[Dean]

Capsules can only be refilled at designated refill stations (where a sign will be clearly displayed) at the Alton Towers Resort, Chessington World of Adventures Resort, LEGOLAND Windsor Resort, THORPE PARK & Warwick Castle. Refill stations are located in the theme parks only and not in secondary attractions e.g. the Alton Towers Waterpark.

No more refills at the Hotels then, not that I re-filled much at the Hotels anyway...

More to the point I might not want a hole punched in my pass...

With regards to abuse it's only the southern attractions that are half bothered about seeing a valid pass in order to re-fill.

 

[EuroSatch]

Haven't read much of this topic, but I get the general gist. Merlin do not have to do anything, so to say you are being penalised if your pass runs out halfway through the year is pathetic. It's your choice to buy the capsule. If you don't like the terms, don't buy it

 

[TheMan]

Watching these T&Cs though like the one above (secondary attractions).

They are eroding a T&C or two every year and putting the prices up, reducing offers etc every single year.

I'd like to see them split the pass now to be honest, I'm never going up the tower, to the dungeons, on the glorified big wheel, or to visit some captive fish - the pass going up and the perks being eroded slowly, are most certainly to fund a vast expansion I do not believe in at all, and that is stifling competition in this country.

They have me by the short and curlies though, as they bought my local Theme Park. If I want to carry on visiting somewhere that existed long before this monstrosity of company did, I have to pay them my money.

I no longer hand it over for extra's with a happy feeling like I used to, and I work out how to spend less every time now. The more you stealth me, the less I actually spend.

Merlin really are morons at this. Many people have posted they can use their flasks at the resorts etc in the past, that little T&C seems to be the start of another steady removal of a "perk".

I may be wrong, but let's take a look back over the last couple of years. These flasks will be 20 quid in two years, and be further restricted and squeezed until they barely add up to being worth it anymore. The first thing I check for when I visit a Merlin park nowadays, is where the prices have gone up and how much by - it has been way, way, way over the RPI!

Merlin, you may wish to take a look outside and check out the economy.

Edit: Sorry that went a little off topic ;D

 

[Rob]

Watching these T&Cs though like the one above (secondary attractions).

They are eroding a T&C or two every year and putting the prices up, reducing offers etc every single year.

I'd like to see them split the pass now to be honest, I'm never going up the tower, to the dungeons, on the glorified big wheel, or to visit some captive fish - the pass going up and the perks being eroded slowly, are most certainly to fund a vast expansion I do not believe in at all, and that is stifling competition in this country.

They have me by the short and curlies though, as they bought my local Theme Park. If I want to carry on visiting somewhere that existed long before this monstrosity of company did, I have to pay them my money.

I no longer hand it over for extra's with a happy feeling like I used to, and I work out how to spend less every time now. The more you stealth me, the less I actually spend.

Merlin really are morons at this. Many people have posted they can use their flasks at the resorts etc in the past, that little T&C seems to be the start of another steady removal of a "perk".

I may be wrong, but let's take a look back over the last couple of years. These flasks will be 20 quid in two years, and be further restricted and squeezed until they barely add up to being worth it anymore. The first thing I check for when I visit a Merlin park nowadays, is where the prices have gone up and how much by - it has been way, way, way over the RPI!

Merlin, you may wish to take a look outside and check out the economy.

Maybe you've forgotten to read the part saying that the price of the capsule is remaining at £16, which is very good value if you go to the parks frequently. And if you don't go frequently then you obviously shouldn't get a capsule.

And where's all this Merlin hate stuff suddenly come from in this topic? I'm sure no one else has mentioned anything else to do with Merlin and their overall pricing structures etc, it's completely irrelevant to this topic. But seeing as you mention it the MAP continues to be fantastic value for money, anyone who tries to deny this doesn't know what they are talking about.

A lot of us don't like a lot of what Merlin do, some of it is justified, other stuff isn't. I just feel a lot of what you have posted there is completely irrelevant to this topic and just for the sake of trying to make Merlin look worse than they really are. Also if you really think that they are a monstrosity of company then I highly recommend you do not visit any of their parks as you are clearly very offended by them.

One final point, a lot of MAP users do actually use the non theme park attractions and see these as a massive plus to the pass. I don't see any need for a split at the moment.

 

[Benzin]

None of the midway attractions have the ability (or need) to allow the use of the flask anyways, so that's no real issue... Not really much 'stealth' going on here, just no need for the Dungeons or the Eye (which don't allow food and drink in either attraction anyway) to have it...

Besides, I swear it was £16 last year, which if you go on a regular basis and drink more (like me, and even then if you look at just a drink with a meal, it works out cheaper over the course), it's definite value for money there...

As for hotels and waterparks, that's another matter, but as I rarely use either it's not something I can be certain of... It's a tricky one, I would say at the Waterpark it's just a burden for everyone involved, as where would you keep your Flask and/or MAP without having to test if it's waterproof?

Least you still get MAP discount in the hotel bars (and restaurants, wahey)... But do the majority have soft drinks in the bars? That's the only 'loss' with that term really (Unless some managed to fill up with Carling)...

Making a mountain out a molehill with this really...



EDIT - Rob ninja'd me...

 

[damos1indisguise]

It's not an injustice, Penalizing, okay if it was to be pulled then tough, but it's not, it's still available, so why is that pathetic? it's called voicing and feedback which are asked for.

The only fair way to everyone is part month payments until passes expire (what's so wrong about that?) or pull the flask this season to when the last flasks were sold or run them January to December, or many will be angry and several are starting to show it, not here but.

It will not effect us as we get 2 flasks, so buy 1 now and 1 when the pass expires then use the same pass to fill both (not supposed to but it's their error)

Rob the comment about it does not effect me... was not aimed at you, but many do use that outcome.

Think some are taking the thoughts of oh well though when other options could be taken, I agree the flasks were abused and often staff were not checking for passes which I think they should do and some are saying you used to take my flask... again abuse.

A capsule is a passholder entitlement, you need a pass to be part of it, if it was not an entitlement it would not be available.

In the meantime... comments "It's better in the long run", we all know in the long run it will be changed again, probably removed in the next few years or £30

The value in the flask is how it's used, eg some use it for family, some use it personal, others give to mates which does take the mick so fair does on the stamps or just check to see passes.

Yes the pass is value for money, no denying, I don't think their monsters, just that there's other options, and it does favor passes that start within the next 2 months, we visit Warwick off season, and Chessington zoo days, and by the time we are able to buy a flask it will be a case of about 15-20 refills lost, other options buy 2 flasks when some only need 1, or buy an on the day flask at £6 per time, or not buy 1 but that does exclude you from the perk.

Yes to us the flask is great value, but again it rubs your face in it if you are either forced to buy 2 or be excluded from buying any :/

I strongly feel midway attractions have a great profit margin to be gained by having soda pumps, surely they would make more by selling pump juice than bottled...

I am still faffled how some are agreeing it is okay for some to have to pay £32, while others pay £16, no other way about it that is 2 charge rates.

Other than that you know my views I'm out

 

[TheMan]

I'm making a serious point in a jovial fashion, I actually said further up a couple of times, I can understand that Merlin need to make this change and it will make it easier for the staff to prevent abuse of the system, which makes sense.

I did also make it rather clear though, that if I could buy my pass from someone else, to visit places that were around before Merlin were then I would, as it I cannot, so I pay them my money I have to and nothing more.

Alton Tower's, has been Alton Tower's, long before some venture capitalist based monopoly came along and bought it up.

Come back to me in two years time, re-read this thread, and see how far off those price rises were... you cannot seriously tell me you think the prices of these flasks in the next couple of years isn't going to go up ridiculously, based on every other price in existence under the Merlin brand.

That's laughable.

Anyway, I stand by Merlin need to make this change, but those getting annoyed by it, don't expect it to get better. Merlin will squeeze every single year as far as they can.

(EDIT: And no, I don't like Merlin very much at all, and I'd more than happily sit in a room with Nick, his FD, and board and tell them exactly why, should the chance ever boldly present itself to me.)

 

[Dar]

Part month payments is way too complicated for such a simple product! It would involve either some form of direct debit or the passholder to visit every month. They could have a pro-rata system, but again, that's seems like excess effort for just a drinks capsule.

I think Merlin had two options for how to implement this change.

The first is the one they have gone with, charging people for one flask per pass, even if it expires part way through the year. This obviously isn't ideal but it is just for one year and is just a one-off payment.

The other option would have been to only offer the flask once passholders renew, to make sure they only pay once, but this excludes people that have bought at the end of last season.


TheMan: Of course prices will go up, that's just how it works!

You put up the price to a point that people aren't willing to pay and then lower it back until you find a price that provides maximum return that people are willing to pay.

Unfortunately, Merlin seem to pursue this idea rather more aggressively than other companies but that's only because they can with the customers they serve being gullible enough to pay whatever they say.

Although, saying that, from reading Alton's facebook page it appears that the tide is turning and Merlin are finding people are getting wise to this and "demanding" the prices come back to the equilibrium.

 

[TheMan]

Good Dar, I am glad to hear it!

I will happily support companies financially that are fair in their prices, not ones that gobble everything up and hold you to ransom if you want to enjoy a day out doing something that you did long before these guys came along!

I have to put fuel in my car, as do you, doesn't mean I am not entitled to express my utter distaste at their profiteering either.

This flask issue, will pale into insignificance, anyway I won't detract from the thread point anymore, it was not my intention, and it's disrespectful of me to the OP, so my apologies on that score.

 

[thefatone]

I hate comments "they don't have to sell it to you", fact is they are, without genuine reason why should any company be allowed to refuse anyone service, any company that sells a product is a public service.

God, I didn't read underneath this because it bores me.

However this - anything not provided by the government, or paid for by government, is NOT a public service. You don't pay taxes for them to provide this, you do not suffer sufficient hardship if it does not exist (ie, nothing else available, you'd die if it was not provided), it's a companies decision whether or not to sell ANY products to you or offer you ANYTHING.

Bloody hell, if it was a right then everything would have to be open 24/7, sell everything to everyone and the word would be a lot poorer (as most would be running at a loss).

Stop with your hard to do by thing, or vote with your feet and not visit. I'm sure your feedback would be considered then (Hint: Be constructive if you're providing feedback, don't make up things).