The Retrosquad: General Discussion

[Steve74]

I think it's clear the retro-squad are out of place and should be gone next year. Towers really should get one or two very high capacity flat rides and look at adding more in the coming years. Towers should be a high quality theme park not a fun fair with some old B&M's, they're half way there put having temporary fun fair rides completely degrades the experience, it might not be something the public are going to recognise instantly however it certainly leaves a worse impression then if all the rides looked like they fitted in.

While permanent flats are an absolute must long term, I can see the Retrosquad being here for at least another season - if for no other reason than to ride out the current hospitality industry staffing issues. Towers must be paying a lump sum for these rides that includes ride-ops (and the owner's engineers when required?). No need for recruitment, no need for investing in technical staff. What Towers are doing at the moment is effectively outsourcing some of their flats - pay for the rides and let someone else handle the day to day running of it.

As we all know, putting a flat in isn't just the initial cost, there's [extra] staff required, running costs, maintenance costs which all need to be taken into consideration and with the recent, current and probable near future climate of lack of staff etc, they see this as being the most cost effective way to get more flats into the park.

 

[Trooper Looper]

While permanent flats are an absolute must long term, I can see the Retrosquad being here for at least another season - if for no other reason than to ride out the current hospitality industry staffing issues. Towers must be paying a lump sum for these rides that includes ride-ops (and the owner's engineers when required?). No need for recruitment, no need for investing in technical staff. What Towers are doing at the moment is effectively outsourcing some of their flats - pay for the rides and let someone else handle the day to day running of it.

As we all know, putting a flat in isn't just the initial cost, there's [extra] staff required, running costs, maintenance costs which all need to be taken into consideration and with the recent, current and probable near future climate of lack of staff etc, they see this as being the most cost effective way to get more flats into the park.

Like Airs overlay with VR, people would've looked more fondly upon it if it was temporary. I know the Retrosquad was great for last year, but this year I barely see them have a queue at all. It's time for something proper to go into theor place.

I thought of a couple of Flat rides that could potentially replace the Retro Squad (X Sector and Forbidden Valley)

I found a few thrill rides that may be viable if Melrin ever wanted a good permanent flat ride:

Blendez

Blendez the New and exciting movement that is the first of its kind in the world

www.zamperla.com

ALADDIN'S RIDE - Fabbri Group

Our Flying Carpet ride for funfairs and parks | Major Rides | 100% Made in Italy | Contact us for more info

www.fabbrigroup.com

KMG Rides - Sinds 1989

Homepagina - KMG Rides - Gekwalificeerde bouwers van amusement attracties - Wereldwijd bouwer van amusement attracties sinds 1989

kmgrides.com

SATURNO - Fabbri Group

One of our best-known rides | Also called Kamikaze or Ranger | Major Rides | 100% Made in Italy | Contact us for more info

www.fabbrigroup.com

 

[Squiggs]

To be honest I don’t think your average general public punter really cares that the park are using temporary funfair rides that look and sound out of place instead of having permanent flats, it’s only us enthusiasts that really care about things like that.

I'm not sure how true that is. There's a difference between not caring and not wanting to discuss it on an online forum.

The general public are often very perceptive about this sort of thing (and are more likely to vote with their feet when they don't like what they see).

 

[Shaggy_Dog_]

There’s a ride called the Warp 10 by Tivoli (there’s one on the travelling fair circuit called Exciter), it’s sort of like an Enterprise but with Paratrooper style swinging seats that tilt forward. It’s a good ride, a fully themed up permanent one would be a great replacement for both Enterprise and Funk ‘N Fly.

https://youtu.be/WC7zrtTs9Fs

 

[NuttySquirrel]

To be honest I don’t think your average general public punter really cares that the park are using temporary funfair rides that look and sound out of place instead of having permanent flats, it’s only us enthusiasts that really care about things like that.

I don't think that's actually true. Anyone who remembers what the park used to be like will likely have an opinion on whether or not the RS are a good fit for the park. At the end of the day AT is a theme park, not an amusement park or fairground, and I think even the GP would want them replaced with something that's a cut above your average travelling fair. It's a bit of an effort to get to Towers (putting it mildly) and it's really expensive too, and no one would bother making the trip just to ride a few fairground rides they'd find in their local park.

 

[QTXAdsy]

SW9 - a travelling Pinfari…

Does that mean Merlin enter a sinful partnership with M&D's?

 

[rob666]

The park had a decent fairground through the sixties and seventies.

 

[Themeparksandy1981]

When I went in 1993 for the 1st time it was 2 weeks after been to Orlando for the 1st time but I felt it was the uk version of Disney with its entertainment.
I thought what they lacked in SW coasters made up with there great flat rides in every area.
Like they had the pirate ship, Astro dancer (was the favourite ride), wave swinger, Enterprise, 1001 nights and the tea cups.
Tussaud’s also added Energiser, Ripsaw, Submission which sadly the only the blade and the enterprise is left for thrill rides.
The normal GP really see Alton Towers as the uk capital of rollercoasters and think this has masked over the lack of new flats, poor selection of water rides and the poor condition of there dark rides and I can’t see much changing soon.

 

[Shaggy_Dog_]

I don't think that's actually true. Anyone who remembers what the park used to be like will likely have an opinion on whether or not the RS are a good fit for the park. At the end of the day AT is a theme park, not an amusement park or fairground, and I think even the GP would want them replaced with something that's a cut above your average travelling fair. It's a bit of an effort to get to Towers (putting it mildly) and it's really expensive too, and no one would bother making the trip just to ride a few fairground rides they'd find in their local park.

The thing is though that it’s been quite a while since the flats were removed. AstroDancer/Dynamo went in 2004, Submission has been gone for a decade now, and Ripsaw went 7 years ago. So it’s been quite a while sadly and I think maybe there was an element of novelty in seeing new flat rides in the park, certainly in the Retrosquad’s first season.

 

[Thameslink Rail]

I think through the late 2010s even someone unfamiliar with the park could see just how many empty spaces there were.

 

[jmc]

After 25+ years of visiting AT on a regular basis, I often question whether the things I pick up on and scrutinise are noticed by the average guest.

That being said, a ‘GP’ friend of mine recently visited the Pleasure Beach, and commented that they much prefer there as they have a more varied selection of rides, whereas all Alton Towers have are ‘the big rollercoasters apart from those tacky fairground rides’.

My point being, the average guest is noticing the lack of filler rides, and it needs to be addressed urgently.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Trooper Looper]

After 25+ years of visiting AT on a regular basis, I often question whether the things I pick up on and scrutinise are noticed by the average guest.

That being said, a ‘GP’ friend of mine recently visited the Pleasure Beach, and commented that they much prefer there as they have a more varied selection of rides, whereas all Alton Towers have are ‘the big rollercoasters apart from those tacky fairground rides’.

My point being, the average guest is noticing the lack of filler rides, and it needs to be addressed urgently.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

This made my day, and proves a lot of people here wrong when they say the GP don't care about the Parks they're visiting as long as they have rides. They clearly do care, especially in the last few years as Merlins true colours have been slowly revealed outside of the Enthusiasts Community. With most of the newest attractions in the last few years being very lackluster, and dont have huge queues anymore excluding peak days.

The fact your GP friend prefers BPB, which has much older, less advanced rides (with most of BPB rides ranging from the 1900s to the mid 80s), has very few modern attractions, and nowhere near Alton Towers and Disney Standards says a lot. You don't need the most technological advanced ride to make it great, what matters is how its executed and portrayed.

So, to all those people who say that Duels replacement should be a Trackless dark ride with an IP, would it really make the experience automatically better than what's already there?
Same with the Rapids. We don't need a water coaster, we just need a really damn good Rapids, which the park is so close to achieving, but doesn't bother giving it the effects, intense waves, and additional theming it needs.

Back on Flat rides and non coaster attractions, if more of the GP start noticing the lack of not Techilogocal marvel attractions, instead just plain out good non coaster attractions, Merlins gonna have a run for their money when the majority of Guests will stop visiting because of that. Heck it might even make them up their game if they want that moola. Could they become Tussauds 2.0 perhaps...


NAH!! Like that's ever gonna happen!

 

[QTXAdsy]

This made my day, and proves a lot of people here wrong when they say the GP don't care about the Parks they're visiting as long as they have rides. They clearly do care, especially in the last few years as Merlins true colours have been slowly revealed outside of the Enthusiasts Community. With most of the newest attractions in the last few years being very lackluster, and dont have huge queues anymore excluding peak days.

The fact your GP friend prefers BPB, which has much older, less advanced rides (with most of BPB rides ranging from the 1900s to the mid 80s), has very few modern attractions, and nowhere near Alton Towers and Disney Standards says a lot. You don't need the most technological advanced ride to make it great, what matters is how its executed and portrayed.

So, to all those people who say that Duels replacement should be a Trackless dark ride with an IP, would it really make the experience automatically better than what's already there?
Same with the Rapids. We don't need a water coaster, we just need a really damn good Rapids, which the park is so close to achieving, but doesn't bother giving it the effects, intense waves, and additional theming it needs.

Back on Flat rides and non coaster attractions, if more of the GP start noticing the lack of not Techilogocal marvel attractions, instead just plain out good non coaster attractions, Merlins gonna have a run for their money when the majority of Guests will stop visiting because of that. Heck it might even make them up their game if they want that moola. Could they become Tussauds 2.0 perhaps...


NAH!! Like that's ever gonna happen!

Just go back to my alternate what is history if Tussauds survived by keeping Towers and selling off the rest, you might have seen Towers go in a different direction. I have said that the park would need at least two flat rides for each area either thrill or family, another water ride to add to the line up with rapids improved and probably another two or three more dark rides (with the current line-up either refurbished or rethemed altogether) and then I think Towers in its ride line-up would have a decent variety for guests for all ages and I haven't gotten round to talking about entertainment and the hotels all needing an overhaul...

 

[Craig]

I've moved a number of posts about the Tussauds era into a separate topic, as things were veering well away from discussion specific to Retrosquad or just flat ride provision at the park

 

[Matt.GC]

“Some old B&Ms” do they not stand as high quality? Nemesis, Oblivion and Galactica all might be getting on but people still love all 3!

I was highlighting them as a good thing. The reason I pointed them out and used the word ageing was that: A. They are old and B. They were built in an era when the park was on the world map. Now we're back to travelling flats again, they stick out as beacons of quality and ambition of a time now long passed.

 

[Danny]

Not only are we back to travelling flat rides, we're back to permanent flat rides being removed with no notice nor any plans for an immediate replacement. Bit of a shambles really.

 

[Themeparksandy1981]

Imagine if there wasn’t any lockdowns we wouldn’t had the rented funfair rides to go with no Hex, Enterprise and poor operations on the rapids and duel. Which really would have put a lot more pressure on the coasters.
With the Nemesis work going on next season and the rumoured Duel work I can easily see the Retro squad coming back for a 3rd season.

 

[s_g_k]

Just thought I’d pop a picture up of a very nicely themed cafe and licenced bar next to a permanent flat.

Taken from Google earth street view dated 2009 - far after what many of us class as the golden age.

How far the park has fallen.

 

[Shaggy_Dog_]

How do people find the intensity of Spinjam compared to the cycles of other Tivoli Extremes on the travelling fair circuit?

I had a ride on an Extreme today (Billy Crow’s Extreme at The Hoppings, I’ve put a picture below) and it was running a cycle that seemed a definite notch up in terms of intensity than Spinjam and was probably twice the length as well (which is probably to be expected at a fair).

For those that have ridden Spinjam in its Air Raid guise at fairs before is there a marked difference in how it’s being operated and intensity of the ride? And is the ride cycle on Spinjam always the same every time or has it changed at all since it was installed at Towers? I’ve only ridden it once but I do remember at the time thinking that it wasn’t quite as intense as the ones I’d done on the travelling circuit previously and my ride tonight has reinforced that opinion I think.

 

[Thameslink Rail]

Spinjam is usually relatively tame for 2/3rds of the layout then after a funfair-style announcement the final 1/3rd is very intense. I was fine with it (my tolerance is higher than most), a few people had to have a sit down afterwards.