Crawleyboy01
TS Member
Also need to add that panda thing to the list of Chessington shows that's only going to open in peak times now
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The Sinking Ship: (Un)Love Letters to Merlin
- Thread starter AstroDan
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Rick
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Crux
Not even a little bit?
I think it's so hard not to, even with the best of intentionsI've seen people suggest that Alton's golden years were around 1998 - 2000. They were great years (without enough capacity for the crowds of course...), but the park can't be a museum and stand still. It has to shift with the times. Even the most historic parks in existence have evolved.
Fair enough... people might not like the evolution, but there are kids rocking up to Alton in 2017 that have the same fuzzy feelings we did in the 80s and 90s - look at how many new members we get here, it's great to see and so easy to pass over.
ChristmasPud
TS Member
I think if you're pining for the past, then you are being a bit nostalgic. It's great to look back on personal memories, but for a whole industry - it's much better to plough on. Those attractions were brilliant, now time for the next challenge
Rather than wishing things were done an old way and being sad things have changed, what I think would be best for designers is to fulfill what those classic attractions did, but aim to do it even better. This means taking the inspiration you got from the past and where the industry has been (its done amazing things). And from there, come up with something new and great fun.
For that reason, I think the 'best' design was almost certainly in the 90s, when that kind of ethos was prevalent in the UK. New ideas were encouraged, new technology (of its day) was well invested in; used in combination with timeless design and classic effects illusion going back 200 years!
But today attractions are designed wholly by marketing teams doing a business deal with the public and other franchises. It's led by what people ask for in statistics, profit forecasts and trending technology, rather than what customers would enjoy and be greatly entertained by. I think design has stagnated as a result, which is why people are looking back to when attractions were designed more creatively, rather than just being stuck in the past.
The whole principle of good entertainment is surprise and compelling people, so just giving them what they ask for defeats the point and is a flash-in-the-pan solution. They know what they 'want', not necessarily at all what they'd really enjoy coming out of it. It's rule number one of a good show innit..!
Plus we've now got the technology to do all sorts of effects that people tried to do decades back, but werent able to. And I dont mean make everything digital-feeling and replace proper design with VR on every attraction. I mean use tech where the experience demands it, and still give it a great theatrical feeling.
Rather than wishing things were done an old way and being sad things have changed, what I think would be best for designers is to fulfill what those classic attractions did, but aim to do it even better. This means taking the inspiration you got from the past and where the industry has been (its done amazing things). And from there, come up with something new and great fun.
For that reason, I think the 'best' design was almost certainly in the 90s, when that kind of ethos was prevalent in the UK. New ideas were encouraged, new technology (of its day) was well invested in; used in combination with timeless design and classic effects illusion going back 200 years!
But today attractions are designed wholly by marketing teams doing a business deal with the public and other franchises. It's led by what people ask for in statistics, profit forecasts and trending technology, rather than what customers would enjoy and be greatly entertained by. I think design has stagnated as a result, which is why people are looking back to when attractions were designed more creatively, rather than just being stuck in the past.
The whole principle of good entertainment is surprise and compelling people, so just giving them what they ask for defeats the point and is a flash-in-the-pan solution. They know what they 'want', not necessarily at all what they'd really enjoy coming out of it. It's rule number one of a good show innit..!
Plus we've now got the technology to do all sorts of effects that people tried to do decades back, but werent able to. And I dont mean make everything digital-feeling and replace proper design with VR on every attraction. I mean use tech where the experience demands it, and still give it a great theatrical feeling.
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Hairobics
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Professor Burp's Bubbleworks
I don't want parks to remain stagnant. I just wish they'd operate more or less like they used too.
Bring in new characters, new ideas. Take me to a world of fantasy and imagination, not bloody africa.
I surmise that UK theme parks have been caught up in The absurdity of our time. However, this could just be the fact that the big names are mostly all run by Merlin, and Merlin is a bit naff.
Bring in new characters, new ideas. Take me to a world of fantasy and imagination, not bloody africa.
I surmise that UK theme parks have been caught up in The absurdity of our time. However, this could just be the fact that the big names are mostly all run by Merlin, and Merlin is a bit naff.
Tim
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Air / Blue Fire
Unlike in the 90s it's easier than ever to create Themed Entertainment. It used to be a very specialist field but now most of the equipment can be bought from a local electrical store. Effects that once require massive PLC cabinets have been reduced to a single shelf of equipment. To make a bold claim I could probably create a modest Dark Ride in my own back garden, for less than it would cost to actually buy a house with a back garden.
To give an example of how much has changed, last week I opened up an old audio cabinet about the size a kitchen boiler. all the cabinet did was play 5 pieces of audio through 5 separate speakers. The equipment I sourced to replace it could fit in a lunchbox. It doesn't even require a PLC to control as todays sound cards are programmable.
To give an example of how much has changed, last week I opened up an old audio cabinet about the size a kitchen boiler. all the cabinet did was play 5 pieces of audio through 5 separate speakers. The equipment I sourced to replace it could fit in a lunchbox. It doesn't even require a PLC to control as todays sound cards are programmable.
ChristmasPud
TS Member
It's true that the technology has changed dramatically. But most new attractions I believe still have sizeable tech racks and hefty control equipment, but definitely not for animation control and the like, as you say.
Things like audio still takes a lot for most big attractions, if not not the sound cards themselves. I'd say things still are quite specialist - if it has to be designed to work day in and out and be easily serviceable. Unfortunately (like washing machines as they say) they don't build most parts to be durable like they used to!
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However to create themed entertainment, I'd say its now harder than ever before in the UK. General construction regulations and cost of building are now extraordinarily high that its impossible for a developer to simply start up a good park anymore like they used to in the 80s. You'd have to be a rich company and have enormous backing to be able to start something, which is why we are now unlikely to ever see many full-size independent parks with their own character, just the generic corporate brands instead.
The market is also so dominated by our best friend Merlin that it has a vast effect on all people and firms going into the industry. Merlin is like a black hole for good talent and enthusiasm. Nobody can create individual ideas and be successful anymore because they have most the UK contractors wrapped around their finger - and most theme park fans too, thanks to their branding, excessive claims and buying you out from any competition with their MAPs. Such a shame really.
The design processes and expertise that ought to go into attractions are still very specialist. Nothing can beat great talent to create themed attractions to their best.
Things like audio still takes a lot for most big attractions, if not not the sound cards themselves. I'd say things still are quite specialist - if it has to be designed to work day in and out and be easily serviceable. Unfortunately (like washing machines as they say) they don't build most parts to be durable like they used to!
__
However to create themed entertainment, I'd say its now harder than ever before in the UK. General construction regulations and cost of building are now extraordinarily high that its impossible for a developer to simply start up a good park anymore like they used to in the 80s. You'd have to be a rich company and have enormous backing to be able to start something, which is why we are now unlikely to ever see many full-size independent parks with their own character, just the generic corporate brands instead.
The market is also so dominated by our best friend Merlin that it has a vast effect on all people and firms going into the industry. Merlin is like a black hole for good talent and enthusiasm. Nobody can create individual ideas and be successful anymore because they have most the UK contractors wrapped around their finger - and most theme park fans too, thanks to their branding, excessive claims and buying you out from any competition with their MAPs. Such a shame really.
The design processes and expertise that ought to go into attractions are still very specialist. Nothing can beat great talent to create themed attractions to their best.
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Crawleyboy01
TS Member
I think we all can pick points in merlin parks pretty easy not because we hate them but because we are worried about them, yes they run down but all the big uk attractions this year opened in a better condition then they have for many years, Alton is looking the best it has in ages and I'm looking forward to my next visit, I just hope they return the opening hours to normal as it's not really worth the 350 mile drive for me right now. Chessington feels a little special again and looks like a lot of plans are in its future, Thorpe looks really good, just rides are suffering, same as most of the parks, I hope to see some major improvements to the rides this next close season, if this happens then the future is bright
PeteB
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Nemesis
I've just booked a holiday to Florida, been a few years since I've been and while I keep an ear open for whats going on I don't read up on every little detail like I used to or as much as for parks in the UK.
So doing a bit of research and a few things I learned was that both Universal and Disney now seem to be heavily focussed on building IP led attractions. It seems the days of anything remotely original are long gone. This is almost certainly the way Merlin are heading.
I was really dissappointed to hear that Streets of America at Hollywood Studios have been demolished to make way for bloody Star Wars Land and Toy Story. That was once a fantastic area of the park but has been neglected and left to rot, and Epcot is also heading the same way - removing educational rides and anything original in favour of bland IP led shows which all use similar technology.
Over at Animal Kingdom we have Avatar Land almost finished. While I absolutely love what they're doing with that, if you look up the original plans for that area (think it was called Beastly Kingdom or something) it was far, far more interesting. All rides and shows based on mythical creatures. I would have prefered that over Avatar any day.
Over at Universal, take a look at all the recent additions over the last few years and the new rides planned for the immediate future. Just about every single one of them consists of a motion simulator, projection screens, or VR.
Point is, even the worlds best parks are becoming very formularic, almost to the point where they're using the same off-the-shelf-technology and just changing the theming a little bit (or in most cases, running a different video). Creativity, original ideas, and huge physical highly themed sets have gone out of the window. I don't like any of this in the slightest.
It's bland, it's boring, it's not the least bit creative, it's all purely marketing led, and its all very Merlin.
The key difference between the top players and Merlin is showmanship. If Merlin could learn to understand that rides need to be designed and operated as shows rather than just a piece of fairground hardware then they would have much better quality attractions.
They may not have the budgets that the big players do, but what they've got is fine. They can build good stuff on the budgets they have, if only the designers would just go the extra mile with some detail from a customer experience point of view.
The biggest problem however, is always how they operate and maintain their new rides.
So doing a bit of research and a few things I learned was that both Universal and Disney now seem to be heavily focussed on building IP led attractions. It seems the days of anything remotely original are long gone. This is almost certainly the way Merlin are heading.
I was really dissappointed to hear that Streets of America at Hollywood Studios have been demolished to make way for bloody Star Wars Land and Toy Story. That was once a fantastic area of the park but has been neglected and left to rot, and Epcot is also heading the same way - removing educational rides and anything original in favour of bland IP led shows which all use similar technology.
Over at Animal Kingdom we have Avatar Land almost finished. While I absolutely love what they're doing with that, if you look up the original plans for that area (think it was called Beastly Kingdom or something) it was far, far more interesting. All rides and shows based on mythical creatures. I would have prefered that over Avatar any day.
Over at Universal, take a look at all the recent additions over the last few years and the new rides planned for the immediate future. Just about every single one of them consists of a motion simulator, projection screens, or VR.
Point is, even the worlds best parks are becoming very formularic, almost to the point where they're using the same off-the-shelf-technology and just changing the theming a little bit (or in most cases, running a different video). Creativity, original ideas, and huge physical highly themed sets have gone out of the window. I don't like any of this in the slightest.
It's bland, it's boring, it's not the least bit creative, it's all purely marketing led, and its all very Merlin.
The key difference between the top players and Merlin is showmanship. If Merlin could learn to understand that rides need to be designed and operated as shows rather than just a piece of fairground hardware then they would have much better quality attractions.
They may not have the budgets that the big players do, but what they've got is fine. They can build good stuff on the budgets they have, if only the designers would just go the extra mile with some detail from a customer experience point of view.
The biggest problem however, is always how they operate and maintain their new rides.
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Benzin
TS Member
Universal have always had IP attractions, it's a weird situation as a Studio park (whilst Island of Adventure again, before Potter had only two IP less areas)... Disney have too, though always had some balance between them but have now gone towards IP ALL THE THINGS!
Both are combining screens and physical theming though, Kong being a reasonable example of this in terms of the exterior building and finale... Though it is just a simulator in some regard so still kinda counts...
There is a very fine line between quality and crap with IPs, even the amount of effort put into Jimmy Fallon should be credited in a way, even if it's a theme nobody wanted... It is at least kind of creative? In a weird way?
Disney can't be accused of not using physical sets though, they're building two life size AT-ATs!
Both are combining screens and physical theming though, Kong being a reasonable example of this in terms of the exterior building and finale... Though it is just a simulator in some regard so still kinda counts...
There is a very fine line between quality and crap with IPs, even the amount of effort put into Jimmy Fallon should be credited in a way, even if it's a theme nobody wanted... It is at least kind of creative? In a weird way?
Disney can't be accused of not using physical sets though, they're building two life size AT-ATs!
PeteB
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Nemesis
Poseiden's Fury, Duelling Dragons, Rip Ride Rockit, Earthquake/Disaster.... and many more.
Universal do usually have mostly IP's but they've had their fair share of originals too.
ChristmasPud
TS Member
When you go to Universal, the premise of the park is the movie industry and attractions based on movies. The very product you're buying is about movie franchising and the guests' pre existing ideas of what these brands/themes are.
When you go to an independent theme park, the premise is surely to surprise and to intrigue, to do something different from everyday entertainment. The exact opposite of the sole purpose of an IP theme, which is to play into an existing idea in the mind of a guest, to attract them to the park. Once theyre on the ride, I believe there's no difference in guest engagement between a good original attraction and an IP attraction, people will love them just as much (if the original attraction is done well). Yet, any marketing person will have you believe IPs are infinitely better in every way than coming up with your own idea.
By using an IP, you're cutting out like 80% the creative process and your designers just become spadeworkers to churning out someone else's idea within strict contract guidelines. The theme park industry shouldnt just suck up to brands and themes of other industries for the sake of easy money, it should offer its own thing. It should be its own entertainment. IP rides will always be more flash-in the pan than a great original concept.
The only benefits to using an IP are short term business benefits. Its all about commercialism and franchising. Surely that kind of thing is what theme parks should be about getting away from, and having a different kind of hands on fun? Would be very sad to see all UK parks follow the franchise game into oblivion.
The only guest benefit to an IP in independent parks is that they can make children more excited in going into the attraction, but I truly believe (I did used to be one) that children react the same way to a good, wholesome themed attraction whether its an IP or not once theyre actually on the ride. And that we owe it to their imagination and learning to go for something original and unconventional, rather than assimilate them into this big consumerism culture.
There's nothing better than a rocking good fun family dark ride for that kind of thing, and can be much more popular in the long run than the latest cash in IP, if done well enough.
But of course, Merlin love IPs now, and they have teams of people dedicated to trying to insert them into every project wherever possible. The idea has caught on with the (pretty easily-led) general public, and marketing people will continue to convince everyone that everything has to be an IP or it won't work. Decades of design integrity (and all the unique fun that comes with it) could just go down the drain in the UK, and it would be down to smaller parks to break the mould with original fun ideas again.
When you go to an independent theme park, the premise is surely to surprise and to intrigue, to do something different from everyday entertainment. The exact opposite of the sole purpose of an IP theme, which is to play into an existing idea in the mind of a guest, to attract them to the park. Once theyre on the ride, I believe there's no difference in guest engagement between a good original attraction and an IP attraction, people will love them just as much (if the original attraction is done well). Yet, any marketing person will have you believe IPs are infinitely better in every way than coming up with your own idea.
By using an IP, you're cutting out like 80% the creative process and your designers just become spadeworkers to churning out someone else's idea within strict contract guidelines. The theme park industry shouldnt just suck up to brands and themes of other industries for the sake of easy money, it should offer its own thing. It should be its own entertainment. IP rides will always be more flash-in the pan than a great original concept.
The only benefits to using an IP are short term business benefits. Its all about commercialism and franchising. Surely that kind of thing is what theme parks should be about getting away from, and having a different kind of hands on fun? Would be very sad to see all UK parks follow the franchise game into oblivion.
The only guest benefit to an IP in independent parks is that they can make children more excited in going into the attraction, but I truly believe (I did used to be one) that children react the same way to a good, wholesome themed attraction whether its an IP or not once theyre actually on the ride. And that we owe it to their imagination and learning to go for something original and unconventional, rather than assimilate them into this big consumerism culture.
There's nothing better than a rocking good fun family dark ride for that kind of thing, and can be much more popular in the long run than the latest cash in IP, if done well enough.
But of course, Merlin love IPs now, and they have teams of people dedicated to trying to insert them into every project wherever possible. The idea has caught on with the (pretty easily-led) general public, and marketing people will continue to convince everyone that everything has to be an IP or it won't work. Decades of design integrity (and all the unique fun that comes with it) could just go down the drain in the UK, and it would be down to smaller parks to break the mould with original fun ideas again.
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Tim
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Air / Blue Fire
I know this is straying off-topic but all this talk of IP's reminds me of the greatest example of an IP we have: The Twilight Zone, Tower of Terror. No creativity was spared on the ride because The Twilight Zone brand lends itself to an original story. Imagineers filled the ride with so many great references but not at the expense of the story they already wanted to tell.
If a UK Park could pull off the same thing with Doctor Who it would be amazing.
If a UK Park could pull off the same thing with Doctor Who it would be amazing.
DiogoJ42
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- The Metropolitan Line
I'm sure the board's bonuses have.Bump.
I wonder if Merlin feel their parks have continued to improve in 2017?
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