[The Smiler] Construction Updates and Ride Speculation

[TheMan]

Pouring concrete in the cold and wet, lifting heavy ride components with high winds and working with a very complex design has made the whole construction process look sluggish. I have noticed that some people are saying that the park has not put enough workers on to get the thing built. :S

No. I didnt say the park. I said Merlin needed to back th park further and get a huge team on site 7 days a week to throw this thing up. This isnt the Great Pyramid or The Empire State Building lol!

It is complex for a UK coaster yes, but on the grand scale of building projects, hardly right up there is it?

Consider it from a perspective outside of it being a coaster. I am.

 

[thefatone]

They're restricted by the amount of hours they can work on the site, as per the conditions set on them by the planning council.

They've had enough people really - what have they mainly needed to do? Pour concrete, pour lots of it.. more than they ever expected. Can you pour concrete when it's almost 0c everyday? No. No you can't.

Snow hasn't helped either, nor have the other obvious setbacks they've had during construction.

 

[LiamC]

Work was still continuing over the weekend from what I understand, mainly on the station

 

[James]

At an educated guess. They have probably not poured any concrete yet as it will be easier to do at the end of track construction all in one go. There's not much point in them doing it as they go along as it will have to be on and off site like a yo-yo. By doing it at the end all supports can be filled in as a one to three day job. Quick and simple to do. This is just a guess though, so don't take this as fact.

---

They've had plenty of people on site. Track construction team, scaffolding team, station building team, Merlin Studios working on the Marmaliser... they've squeezed as much as they can on site so I think they really are doing as best as they can.

You've got to remember as each day passes Alton Towers are spending more and more money for this construction, so they will be doing their absolute best to ensure if all gets finished as soon as possible.

 

[aru]

Pouring concrete in the cold and wet, lifting heavy ride components with high winds and working with a very complex design has made the whole construction process look sluggish. I have noticed that some people are saying that the park has not put enough workers on to get the thing built. :S

No. I didnt say the park. I said Merlin needed to back th park further and get a huge team on site 7 days a week to throw this thing up. This isnt the Great Pyramid or The Empire State Building lol!

It is complex for a UK coaster yes, but on the grand scale of building projects, hardly right up there is it?

Consider it from a perspective outside of it being a coaster. I am.

Sorry, what have Merlin got to do with this? There will be construction manager and a site manager based at AT. Merlin back the project financially and beyond that they will have expectations about delivery and certain departments, such as Merlin Studios, will provide assistance. Merlin do not provide extra workers, the project manager at AT will liaise with sub-contractors to get more on site. If anything Merlin will want more people on site to get the thing open and prevent losses!

My job involves building wind turbines, and trust me the weather is much more of a sensitive issue than you would think. You can throw 50 extra workers at a project but most of them will be stood around doing nothing if specialist specific work (such as lifting and installing track) needs to take place first. Workers will also be stood around doing nothing if the weather is terrible and it is unsafe or impossible to work. The number of workers is not the key it is how you deploy them and when to make sure a programme is met.

 

[TheMan]

They're restricted by the amount of hours they can work on the site, as per the conditions set on them by the planning council.

That isn't something I'd considered actually. (Though no doubt, only one part of this phrase will be quoted by people hell bent on arguing with me). That can't help either, I bet there are some nightmare like conditions within the planning documents on building levels.

Oh (I HATE MERLIN - there you go a soundbite for those who wish to take me out of context...)

You've got to remember as each day passes Alton Towers are spending more and more money for this construction, so they will be doing their absolute best to ensure if all gets finished as soon as possible.

I get the impression James it isn't Tower's budget issue, and that the teams are entirely separate as has been used to explain to me multiple times why The Smiler came before The Sanctuary etc. This would make sense, to have the big investments run by the evil overlords ().

I still don't entirely buy that Towers have been given enough support through this - that's my opinion, I'm sticking with it based on what feels right to me.

I do have to wonder though, to what degree noise/time restrictions have played in keeping them going at it full pelt - both times I was there, that was not happening. As I say, it's not the Great Pyramid they are building here lol . Complex coaster? Yes. But in the grand scheme of things, it's pretty small when you consider what gets built and how quickly nowadays.

(Ironic how my ironic post words up there became relevant ha-ha! I didn't even have to post this - wow some of you guys are psychic wooot!)

Pouring concrete in the cold and wet, lifting heavy ride components with high winds and working with a very complex design has made the whole construction process look sluggish. I have noticed that some people are saying that the park has not put enough workers on to get the thing built. :S

No. I didnt say the park. I said Merlin needed to back th park further and get a huge team on site 7 days a week to throw this thing up. This isnt the Great Pyramid or The Empire State Building lol!

It is complex for a UK coaster yes, but on the grand scale of building projects, hardly right up there is it?

Consider it from a perspective outside of it being a coaster. I am.

Sorry, what have Merlin got to do with this?

I paid attention to some seemingly more knowledgeable posters than I am, in how the construction works and who is actually in charge. You aren't the only person with construction knowledge and they are not building a wind turbine.

What has Merlin got to do with a project being built by them?

Gosh, I don't know.

I shall address my concerns to Sandra Jones from Stoke On Trent instead. Would that make some of you feel better?

 

[aru]

They're restricted by the amount of hours they can work on the site, as per the conditions set on them by the planning council.

That isn't something I'd considered actually. (Though no doubt, only one part of this phrase will be quoted by people hell bent on arguing with me). That can't help either, I bet there are some nightmare like conditions within the planning documents on building levels.

Oh (I HATE MERLIN - there you go a soundbite for those who wish to take me out of context...)

You've got to remember as each day passes Alton Towers are spending more and more money for this construction, so they will be doing their absolute best to ensure if all gets finished as soon as possible.

I get the impression James it isn't Tower's budget issue, and that the teams are entirely separate as has been used to explain to me multiple times why The Smiler came before The Sanctuary etc. This would make sense, to have the big investments run by the evil overlords ().

I still don't entirely buy that Towers have been given enough support through this - that's my opinion, I'm sticking with it based on what feels right to me.

I do have to wonder though, to what degree noise/time restrictions have played in keeping them going at it full pelt - both times I was there, that was not happening. As I say, it's not the Great Pyramid they are building here lol . Complex coaster? Yes. But in the grand scheme of things, it's pretty small when you consider what gets built and how quickly nowadays.

(Ironic how my ironic post words up there became relevant ha-ha! I didn't even have to post this - wow some of you guys are psychic wooot!)

Pouring concrete in the cold and wet, lifting heavy ride components with high winds and working with a very complex design has made the whole construction process look sluggish. I have noticed that some people are saying that the park has not put enough workers on to get the thing built. :S

No. I didnt say the park. I said Merlin needed to back th park further and get a huge team on site 7 days a week to throw this thing up. This isnt the Great Pyramid or The Empire State Building lol!

It is complex for a UK coaster yes, but on the grand scale of building projects, hardly right up there is it?

Consider it from a perspective outside of it being a coaster. I am.

Sorry, what have Merlin got to do with this?

I paid attention to some seemingly more knowledgeable posters than I am, in how the construction works and who is actually in charge. You aren't the only person with construction knowledge and they are not building a wind turbine.

What has Merlin got to do with a project being built by them?

Gosh, I don't know.

I justified a rhetorical question with a body of knowledge I have about construction. Building wind turbines does have many parallels with building a roller coaster. In fact we use the same crane company as AT are currently using. It involves complex foundations, lifting and installation of large heavy components and lots or electrical / building work. Sounds familiar to some extent. Please don't write a whole post off just because it goes against your other sources. I am trying to add to the debate and I find having a discussion with you just ends up in a silly tit for tat posts. I'm not going to bother.

 

[TheMan]

I justified a rhetorical question with a body of knowledge I have about construction. Building wind turbines does have many parallels with building a roller coaster. In fact we use the same crane company as AT are currently using. It involves complex foundations, lifting and installation of large heavy components and lots or electrical / building work. Sounds familiar to some extent. Please don't write a whole post off just because it goes against your other sources. I am trying to add to the debate and I find having a discussion with you just ends up in a silly tit for tat posts. I'm not going to bother.

That's fair enough, and a sensible post - my apologies, I do not like to end up in tit for tat posts, in fact that is the source of my present annoyance to be honest. I hate being dragged into pointless arguments, and if someone presents to me a sensible fact I take it on board and consider it. Timing was bad there.

It seems at present you dare mention Merlin and there are about 15 people waiting to jump all over you, despite the fact I am trying to defend what Towers are doing ironically enough.

I am also annoyed my posts are getting taken out of context to suit certain viewpoints - where as I genuinely only have an interest in getting into facts, and discussing them sensibly - rather than one line retorts (which you haven't done obviously).

I am not an unreasonable man Aru, you just got the brunt of a frustrated poster, once again apologies, you added some interesting information and that deserved more respect from me.

 

[ATSurfer]

Pictures from today here: https://www.facebook.com/thealtontowersguide

 

[TheMan]

Pictures from today here: https://www.facebook.com/thealtontowersguide

Did you take those pics? There are some absolutely beautiful pictures there. Must be frustrating to have so few rides apparently open, how they even got the park open in that state I have no idea, huge credit to them for that. Those there though must be experiencing a very uniquely beautiful day.

Out of interest anyone who went, how busy is it? Seems they are still working on The Smiler also, which again deserves great credit - must be treacherous even getting to the site today.

 

[ATSurfer]

Pictures from today here: https://www.facebook.com/thealtontowersguide

Did you take those pics? There are some absolutely beautiful pictures there. Must be frustrating to have so few rides apparently open, how they even got the park open in that state I have no idea, huge credit to them for that. Those there though must be experiencing a very uniquely beautiful day.

Out of interest anyone who went, how busy is it? Seems they are still working on The Smiler also, which again deserves great credit - must be treacherous even getting to the site today.

No, I didn't take them - I just linked the page because I saw no one else had. :twirly:

 

[Martin]

I find it strange how many accounts are appearing recently just to take shots at TheMan.

Or maybe it's the same person? I don't know.

 

[LiamC]

Pictures from today here: https://www.facebook.com/thealtontowersguide

Did you take those pics? There are some absolutely beautiful pictures there. Must be frustrating to have so few rides apparently open, how they even got the park open in that state I have no idea, huge credit to them for that. Those there though must be experiencing a very uniquely beautiful day.

Out of interest anyone who went, how busy is it? Seems they are still working on The Smiler also, which again deserves great credit - must be treacherous even getting to the site today.

No, I didn't take them - I just linked the page because I saw no one else had. :twirly:

From what I understand they were using the coach park outside the entrance as carparking, so not very busy

 

[TheMan]

I find it strange how many accounts are appearing recently just to take shots at TheMan.

Or maybe it's the same person? I don't know.

Must be lizard people Blaze

And to make sure that doesn't get removed....

I am surprised anyone turned up at Towers today, and I hope the staff and management are having a good day without too much grief. I really am hugely impressed a place out in the sticks, on a big hill, full of technology somehow managed to open when you see in those pics just how much snow they had! To be working on The Smiler is really very praiseworthy also.

A snowball fight at Alton Towers would have been a right laugh! Beginning to wish I'd actually gone as planned now.

 

[James]

The car parking arrangement looks awful. You have no way of being able to drive out earlier in the day if your car is stuck in the middle!

---

I get the impression James it isn't Tower's budget issue, and that the teams are entirely separate as has been used to explain to me multiple times why The Smiler came before The Sanctuary etc. This would make sense, to have the big investments run by the evil overlords ().

I still don't entirely buy that Towers have been given enough support through this - that's my opinion, I'm sticking with it based on what feels right to me.

I do have to wonder though, to what degree noise/time restrictions have played in keeping them going at it full pelt - both times I was there, that was not happening. As I say, it's not the Great Pyramid they are building here lol . Complex coaster? Yes. But in the grand scheme of things, it's pretty small when you consider what gets built and how quickly nowadays.

(Ironic how my ironic post words up there became relevant ha-ha! I didn't even have to post this - wow some of you guys are psychic wooot!)

It would be a Towers budget issue wouldn't it? They get funding from Merlin, so much is allocated for construction, budget managed by construction managers who are given a set time-frame. Once the time-frame has passed, Alton Towers have to invest more money in order to keep construction going. Resulting in budget cuts having to be made in other departments of the project (such as marketing, theming, merchandise etc...). The teams are of course separate, although I would assume the person managing the budgets will know what money needs to go where.

We know this is an £18 million project. This money will have been budgeted to cover everything including the construction ready for ride opening in March. Since the deadline has passed the £18 million will not rise, so either Alton Towers or Merlin find money from else where, or cuts within that £18 million will happen.

A good example of this is Air's tunnel, costs rised with other parts of Air so the planned themed tunnel was cut. The same could happen with The Smiler. Cuts may be made somewhere.

Oh I know that this is a pretty minor construction compared to some structures you can find around the world. However I would assume building a coaster involves a little more care and thought. It's on a very awkward hillside with some of the greatest engineering you can find with roller coaster structures. I would assume a roller coaster construction is handled far differently to anything else therefore they can only have so much or so many people on site doing things at once.

I'm no expert with constructions though so I could be well off the mark and wrong.

 

[Champion of Pain]

The thing is some of us who are new to the forum might just want to check this thread for updates on construction of The Smiler but have to read through a loads of posts with people arguing.

 

[Meat Pie]

Then check The Smiler mini-site. This is a forum, a medium of communication that was designed for discussion. :

 

[James]

If you feel some posts detract from the topic then just click the 'flag post' button, which notifies the team immediately. Posts can be dealt with then if any action needs to be made.

It's far easier than posting in the topic yourself, as it can often cause other arguments that have nothing to do with the topic at all (which in this case has resulted in off topic posts on this page and the previous one) - and the team are unlikely to find the offending posts until they manage to come into the topic. Team members don't have time to have their eyes looking at every inch of the forums, so the flag button is there for a very good reason!

If you're just solely after updates on the construction then checking the TowersStreet SW7 pages would be more suited, which the team update frequently.

 

[Dave]

As we have reached well over 200 pages of discussion we have locked this topic (large topics and server performance don't work well together) please check out part 2

http://www.towersstreet.com/talk/planning-portal-and-the-smiler/(the-smiler)-construction-updates-and-ride-speculation-part-2/