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[The Smiler] Construction Updates and Ride Speculation
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CoasterDan
TS Member
Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued
yeah some saw the ride advert footage is in there aswell.
yeah some saw the ride advert footage is in there aswell.
TheMan
TS Member
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- NemiLerVion
Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued
The normal resort adverts have been on kids TV for days now, with zero mention of a new attraction at all.
Why you wouldn't mention, when trying to get people to book for multiple day stays, that there is a new attraction coming, goodness only knows.
The normal resort adverts have been on kids TV for days now, with zero mention of a new attraction at all.
Why you wouldn't mention, when trying to get people to book for multiple day stays, that there is a new attraction coming, goodness only knows.
Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued
I imagine because they want it seperate - SW7 is not a family attraction, it's not attracting families and wouldn't need to be shown on kids tv.
This is a family breaks advert from 2011 which they've continued to use to promote short breaks, not the new coaster which'll be irrelevant.
I imagine because they want it seperate - SW7 is not a family attraction, it's not attracting families and wouldn't need to be shown on kids tv.
This is a family breaks advert from 2011 which they've continued to use to promote short breaks, not the new coaster which'll be irrelevant.
TheMan
TS Member
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Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued
This wasn't shown on CBeebies lol!
This is "tween" TV, the age they start going on them more regularly - I take the point, and not getting into some big debate today, but the idea of a family market is you cater for everyone.
For some reason, people say families, and think no big rides? Doesn't match any families I know. Family = something for everyone, so new big coaster, is for the slightly bigger/older kids, many of whom will be sitting watching the likes of Spongebob et al.
I'd know, I was watching it! ;D
This wasn't shown on CBeebies lol!
This is "tween" TV, the age they start going on them more regularly - I take the point, and not getting into some big debate today, but the idea of a family market is you cater for everyone.
For some reason, people say families, and think no big rides? Doesn't match any families I know. Family = something for everyone, so new big coaster, is for the slightly bigger/older kids, many of whom will be sitting watching the likes of Spongebob et al.
I'd know, I was watching it! ;D
James
TS Founding Member
Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued
You've answered your own question there. If the advert was shown on kids TV they do not fit in the market this ride will be aimed at.
At the current time there is no need to advertise SW7 on TV. It's pretty obvious what the marketing team are doing. This month and next month general resort adverts will be shown to attract guests during February half term and into March opening. With the half term event being very family based right now the family market will be the key target to advertise to. Then during February and March SW7 adverts will be plastered on TV ready for March opening and the easter holidays, attracting the thrill market.
This way of marketing works better as it will advertise the resort to both markets within a close time range and (hopefully) result in a good flow of guests being attracted to visiting. Quite well planned I would say.
TheMan said:
You've answered your own question there. If the advert was shown on kids TV they do not fit in the market this ride will be aimed at.
At the current time there is no need to advertise SW7 on TV. It's pretty obvious what the marketing team are doing. This month and next month general resort adverts will be shown to attract guests during February half term and into March opening. With the half term event being very family based right now the family market will be the key target to advertise to. Then during February and March SW7 adverts will be plastered on TV ready for March opening and the easter holidays, attracting the thrill market.
This way of marketing works better as it will advertise the resort to both markets within a close time range and (hopefully) result in a good flow of guests being attracted to visiting. Quite well planned I would say.
TheMan
TS Member
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- NemiLerVion
Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued
I don't remember them advertising specifically for half term, it was just short breaks.
We wont agree on this one, the park is the park, families have ranges of kids the ages of which will probably be split 50/50 as to who would like a new coaster or not. Let's not forget the parents also!
I just don't see this "this is for this, and this is for that" marketing. What a waste of expensive TV time.
"Book now for your Alton Towers resort short break, and find out more about our new coming attractions!"
Sounds better than:
"Book now for your Alton Towers resort short break".
This was not about half term. This is year round business, families more so than anyone, plan miles in advance, they have to. I don't buy this separate advertising lark. Waste of hugely expensive and valuable TV time, especially on channels designed for kids of a naggability age, whom are likely to be interested in a new coaster.
Not rocket science for me this.
Just to add, I have seen loads of these adverts, frequently recently, which cost a fortune - you can yawn at this I don't care really, but I have been involved in some pretty big event marketing down the years.
Know your audience, get best value, and maximum impact. This is a waste of money in my opinion, and altogether pointless. Only my opinion, as ever, but one based on personal experience in the entertainment industry.
I don't remember them advertising specifically for half term, it was just short breaks.
We wont agree on this one, the park is the park, families have ranges of kids the ages of which will probably be split 50/50 as to who would like a new coaster or not. Let's not forget the parents also!
I just don't see this "this is for this, and this is for that" marketing. What a waste of expensive TV time.
"Book now for your Alton Towers resort short break, and find out more about our new coming attractions!"
Sounds better than:
"Book now for your Alton Towers resort short break".
This was not about half term. This is year round business, families more so than anyone, plan miles in advance, they have to. I don't buy this separate advertising lark. Waste of hugely expensive and valuable TV time, especially on channels designed for kids of a naggability age, whom are likely to be interested in a new coaster.
Not rocket science for me this.
Just to add, I have seen loads of these adverts, frequently recently, which cost a fortune - you can yawn at this I don't care really, but I have been involved in some pretty big event marketing down the years.
Know your audience, get best value, and maximum impact. This is a waste of money in my opinion, and altogether pointless. Only my opinion, as ever, but one based on personal experience in the entertainment industry.
Jordan
TS Contributor
Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued
If the current adverts are trying to increase visits over half term, advertising a new attraction could potentially put families off until mid-way into the main season.
Surely it's better for Towers if a family books for half term, then see all the SW7 promotions around park and make a second visit later in the year, than for a family to be advised that there's a new ride on the way and decide to save their visit for later in the year.
If the current adverts are trying to increase visits over half term, advertising a new attraction could potentially put families off until mid-way into the main season.
Surely it's better for Towers if a family books for half term, then see all the SW7 promotions around park and make a second visit later in the year, than for a family to be advised that there's a new ride on the way and decide to save their visit for later in the year.
James
TS Founding Member
Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued
A family in Alton Towers' terms is classed as parents with children under the age of 12. Statistically families at Alton Towers would not be interested by the advertisement of a new intense thrill roller coaster. Some children do ride thrill rides, although they are not a majority - and parents with children tend not to wander off and go into the thrill areas. They will be there for their children and have the best interest in staying with their children. Certainly if I were a father I would want to know the resorts' family offerings, a new roller coaster would be of no interest when I'd want to treat my children.
Kids TV channels will generally be watched by those under the age of 12 and seen my parents. They fit into the family market which as a majority do not fit within being attracted to thrill roller coasters (remember this is a massive, £20 million, 1.4m, intense thrill ride - this is no Th13teen) and with the February half term event being aimed at families Alton Towers are advertising short breaks, of which out of all the markets families stay on the resort the most, a new ride like SW7 would not appeal to them so much. So the family offerings are advertised.
These adverts are not a waste of money. They have looked at the market, found the market and concentrated on this market. They have followed the general rules of marketing so I honestly cannot see what they are doing wrong. They are doing greatly with it.
TheMan said:
A family in Alton Towers' terms is classed as parents with children under the age of 12. Statistically families at Alton Towers would not be interested by the advertisement of a new intense thrill roller coaster. Some children do ride thrill rides, although they are not a majority - and parents with children tend not to wander off and go into the thrill areas. They will be there for their children and have the best interest in staying with their children. Certainly if I were a father I would want to know the resorts' family offerings, a new roller coaster would be of no interest when I'd want to treat my children.
That's how marketing works. You cannot mix in a scary thrill ride with a childrens one. They are made as separate attractions and are therefore marketed as separate products. It would be like Tesco advertising Peppa Pig toys with a special offer on Carling in one advert. Makes no sense whatsoever in marketing. By concentrating on the separate markets it can result in attracting more guests. Guests know Alton Towers provides something for everyone, but marketing creates the illusion that the park is designed for the market they fit in personally.TheMan said:
I believe I read an article a while back stating that on average theme park visits are planned 1-3 months in advance. Just because an advert is shown in January doesn't mean the guest will remember that advert all the way through to October and visit. Alton Towers, much like any other business need to constantly make the public aware of their product and adverts is a way of concentrating this awareness to peak times of the year. February half term being one, easter being one, summer being one and halloween being the last one.TheMan said:
See, my opinion differs in that I think this is perfect marketing for Alton Towers. In the way they are designed and operate they are going in the way of marketing perfectly.TheMan said:
Kids TV channels will generally be watched by those under the age of 12 and seen my parents. They fit into the family market which as a majority do not fit within being attracted to thrill roller coasters (remember this is a massive, £20 million, 1.4m, intense thrill ride - this is no Th13teen) and with the February half term event being aimed at families Alton Towers are advertising short breaks, of which out of all the markets families stay on the resort the most, a new ride like SW7 would not appeal to them so much. So the family offerings are advertised.
These adverts are not a waste of money. They have looked at the market, found the market and concentrated on this market. They have followed the general rules of marketing so I honestly cannot see what they are doing wrong. They are doing greatly with it.
TheMan
TS Member
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Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued
You make exceptional points there James, with very salient examples. I don't agree with them, as I think the core ingredient as to what has been researched is poor.
Families are no where near that cut and shut, your reasoning based on that being the case is most certainly sound of course, but I still disagree and think that for the channel and programming they advertise between, it is the age that will most definitely be interested in a new ride. Also as I say, there are so many parents who like the big rides or who also have teenagers on board.
There is a difference also, between a Theme Park trip plan - which I would largely agree with, and in fact may well be very spontaneous in timing, and that of a short break which for a family can cost as much as a weeks trip to France. That is serious family budgeting that needs to on there.
Just because they are short breaks, does not mean they are cheap - and a family will want best value for all of their kids. I'm not saying it should be SW7 advertising, but informing that there is a new thrill attraction coming, is better than not letting anyone know given the spread that the word "family" encompasses nowadays.
Good points though, even if I still don't agree due to what I say above. ;D
Also, TV advertising is ludicrously expensive, no one would sit opposite a table from me with that information, and convince me that keeping schtum on our most expensive attraction ever is a good idea. Not even Morwenna ;D
EDIT: I'd also add, that I bet the person in charge of marketing, is being paid more than enough to not give a monkeys what my opinions are, and regardless of my personal take on this, probably in reality knows a lot more than I do about this specific field of the marketplace!
You make exceptional points there James, with very salient examples. I don't agree with them, as I think the core ingredient as to what has been researched is poor.
Families are no where near that cut and shut, your reasoning based on that being the case is most certainly sound of course, but I still disagree and think that for the channel and programming they advertise between, it is the age that will most definitely be interested in a new ride. Also as I say, there are so many parents who like the big rides or who also have teenagers on board.
There is a difference also, between a Theme Park trip plan - which I would largely agree with, and in fact may well be very spontaneous in timing, and that of a short break which for a family can cost as much as a weeks trip to France. That is serious family budgeting that needs to on there.
Just because they are short breaks, does not mean they are cheap - and a family will want best value for all of their kids. I'm not saying it should be SW7 advertising, but informing that there is a new thrill attraction coming, is better than not letting anyone know given the spread that the word "family" encompasses nowadays.
Good points though, even if I still don't agree due to what I say above. ;D
Also, TV advertising is ludicrously expensive, no one would sit opposite a table from me with that information, and convince me that keeping schtum on our most expensive attraction ever is a good idea. Not even Morwenna ;D
EDIT: I'd also add, that I bet the person in charge of marketing, is being paid more than enough to not give a monkeys what my opinions are, and regardless of my personal take on this, probably in reality knows a lot more than I do about this specific field of the marketplace!
James
TS Founding Member
Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued
The idea of 'family' can get a little more confusing when you start to take into consideration teenagers. However in marketing terms (using Alton Towers) family generally means children of whom are not at the age or interested in something of the size of SW7. At this age parents too will not be on the lookout for a thrill ride.
Short breaks are planned a few months in advance. Speaking from a family myself, we have always booked April (easter holiday) stays in January/February year on year since 1997. This gives enough time for budgets to be planned and I would say is generally the time most families would book stays. This fits in with Alton Towers marketing the resort to families at this time of the year.
Remember that in this day in age people will do background research before visiting a place, especially with the cost that Alton Towers is. I would say 60-70% of guests will visit the Alton Towers website prior to their visit. On this visit they will immediately be shown that there is a new ride coming to the resort. The advert does not direct this as it is not of interest to the market but when they visit the site in some ways it might interest a small section of the market.
We may as well agree to disagree, since neither of us are going to move with our views.
Good points made on both sides I think anyway.
The idea of 'family' can get a little more confusing when you start to take into consideration teenagers. However in marketing terms (using Alton Towers) family generally means children of whom are not at the age or interested in something of the size of SW7. At this age parents too will not be on the lookout for a thrill ride.
Short breaks are planned a few months in advance. Speaking from a family myself, we have always booked April (easter holiday) stays in January/February year on year since 1997. This gives enough time for budgets to be planned and I would say is generally the time most families would book stays. This fits in with Alton Towers marketing the resort to families at this time of the year.
Remember that in this day in age people will do background research before visiting a place, especially with the cost that Alton Towers is. I would say 60-70% of guests will visit the Alton Towers website prior to their visit. On this visit they will immediately be shown that there is a new ride coming to the resort. The advert does not direct this as it is not of interest to the market but when they visit the site in some ways it might interest a small section of the market.
We may as well agree to disagree, since neither of us are going to move with our views.
Good points made on both sides I think anyway. 
Poisson
TS Member
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- The Giant Squid
Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued
If no ride-specific stuff is used on an advert it can be re-used and re-using adverts saves on making more new adverts.
SW7 will probably start getting advertised, like many have said, just after Feb H/T
If no ride-specific stuff is used on an advert it can be re-used and re-using adverts saves on making more new adverts.
SW7 will probably start getting advertised, like many have said, just after Feb H/T
CupCakeMonster
TS Member
Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued
But the cost of making adverts is next-to-nothing compared to the cost of airing them.
But the cost of making adverts is next-to-nothing compared to the cost of airing them.
Scott
Former TS Team Member
- Favourite Ride
- Nemesis
Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued
This is a cheap way of using existing footage to create an advert which encourages families to visit during feb half term and the start of the season in March. Is feasible that no SW7 advertising has been filmed yet and thus there is no point holding off when the general location for these generic ads seems to be in places where parents may be watching television with their pre-teen children.
There is absolutely zero point aiming an ad campaign at families if all it goes on about is a ride which members of their party may not be able to ride or may not be interested in. Save SW7 for the bigger audience on the bigger channels. You say how expensive TV advertising is, but the reality is that a lot of air time can be bought on Multi-channel TV for what is not all that much... The audience of these channels is often so small (in TV terms) that it isn't a huge expenditure - especially when the advert has not had to be filmed.
I think it would be entirely silly to include SW7 alongside the family advertising... These adverts are squarely aimed at the family market and nobody else and it is nice to see that they aren't being forgotten too. As over the next month they will no doubt be forgotten with thE influx of SW7 advertisements.
This is a cheap way of using existing footage to create an advert which encourages families to visit during feb half term and the start of the season in March. Is feasible that no SW7 advertising has been filmed yet and thus there is no point holding off when the general location for these generic ads seems to be in places where parents may be watching television with their pre-teen children.
There is absolutely zero point aiming an ad campaign at families if all it goes on about is a ride which members of their party may not be able to ride or may not be interested in. Save SW7 for the bigger audience on the bigger channels. You say how expensive TV advertising is, but the reality is that a lot of air time can be bought on Multi-channel TV for what is not all that much... The audience of these channels is often so small (in TV terms) that it isn't a huge expenditure - especially when the advert has not had to be filmed.
I think it would be entirely silly to include SW7 alongside the family advertising... These adverts are squarely aimed at the family market and nobody else and it is nice to see that they aren't being forgotten too. As over the next month they will no doubt be forgotten with thE influx of SW7 advertisements.
TheMan
TS Member
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- NemiLerVion
Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued
The only thing I'd say here, is given how I have heard on here that budgets are decided, Ie, not in the real world then I can see Towers reasoning in getting some adverts in for early season business minus the SW stuff. IF they did indeed get a big bulky TV block booking thing for comparitively next to nothing.
It would not rest well with me though. Letting people book early, knowing a new attraction is on it's way, I'd have to tell them lol!
I'd still like to see the park being less secularised in that respect though. Points made though, understand the other view, but I still believe "family" is incorrect as a base from which to build.
Definitely don't buy editing in a new attraction line onto an existing video edit would be expensive though, or not worth doing. That's so cheap to do in comparison it's not even a thought I had.
I'd love get my hands on that marketing budget and park mind you! I'd flog it and buy myself a massive house ;D
The only thing I'd say here, is given how I have heard on here that budgets are decided, Ie, not in the real world then I can see Towers reasoning in getting some adverts in for early season business minus the SW stuff. IF they did indeed get a big bulky TV block booking thing for comparitively next to nothing.
It would not rest well with me though. Letting people book early, knowing a new attraction is on it's way, I'd have to tell them lol!
I'd still like to see the park being less secularised in that respect though. Points made though, understand the other view, but I still believe "family" is incorrect as a base from which to build.
Definitely don't buy editing in a new attraction line onto an existing video edit would be expensive though, or not worth doing. That's so cheap to do in comparison it's not even a thought I had.
I'd love get my hands on that marketing budget and park mind you! I'd flog it and buy myself a massive house ;D
CupCakeMonster
TS Member
Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued
Oh, I fully agree with you on not forgetting the families. That is what sets Alton aside from Thorpe. Both big parks, with big thrills, but Alton is family orientated as well.
If the advertising on these channels is only a small charge, then I understand why Alton are just regurgitating old adverts. But, if these do start to be shown on the big channels, the cost of the advert compared to the advertising on them is very minimal, and people will remember if they are just re-used. Therefore, old adverts on the big channels is a big no no for me.
Oh, I fully agree with you on not forgetting the families. That is what sets Alton aside from Thorpe. Both big parks, with big thrills, but Alton is family orientated as well.
If the advertising on these channels is only a small charge, then I understand why Alton are just regurgitating old adverts. But, if these do start to be shown on the big channels, the cost of the advert compared to the advertising on them is very minimal, and people will remember if they are just re-used. Therefore, old adverts on the big channels is a big no no for me.
Scott
Former TS Team Member
- Favourite Ride
- Nemesis
Re: Secret Weapon 7 Discussion Continued
@TheMan: he audience which these adverts are targeted towards have no interest in a new thrill machine. If they turn up and see it they might think 'ooh shiny' but they aren't going to go to the park because of it. Those who will do that will be targeted by SW7 marketing directly.
Whether the advertising is reaching its intended audience is a different matter - although I think it is. Though it is clear to see that this (small) campaign is intended entirely for families with younger children who may want to take them on a breakaway in the near future. Therefore this ticks all the boxes. When an advertising campaign is planned, the target audience is defined early on. Anything irrelevant to this audience is then deemed as not being necessary to show... And SW7 is thus unnecessary for this kind of advert.
Basically, there's no point showing this target audience SW7 as it will have no baring on their decision to visit the park
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@CupCake: I'd be very surprised to see these on a bigger channel. Digital/cable/satellite advertising is relatively cheap. It's only when you get to the bigger digital channels and then the mainstream terrestrial channels that costs get big. I'm fairly sure that for those (apart from maybe during kiddy hours) the marketing will be just for SW7.
@TheMan: he audience which these adverts are targeted towards have no interest in a new thrill machine. If they turn up and see it they might think 'ooh shiny' but they aren't going to go to the park because of it. Those who will do that will be targeted by SW7 marketing directly.
Whether the advertising is reaching its intended audience is a different matter - although I think it is. Though it is clear to see that this (small) campaign is intended entirely for families with younger children who may want to take them on a breakaway in the near future. Therefore this ticks all the boxes. When an advertising campaign is planned, the target audience is defined early on. Anything irrelevant to this audience is then deemed as not being necessary to show... And SW7 is thus unnecessary for this kind of advert.
Basically, there's no point showing this target audience SW7 as it will have no baring on their decision to visit the park
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@CupCake: I'd be very surprised to see these on a bigger channel. Digital/cable/satellite advertising is relatively cheap. It's only when you get to the bigger digital channels and then the mainstream terrestrial channels that costs get big. I'm fairly sure that for those (apart from maybe during kiddy hours) the marketing will be just for SW7.
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