Thorpe Park: General Discussion

[jon81uk]

With regards to the bolded, I’d be intrigued to know what you mean, as surely this would be the case for any dark ride, as all dark rides pack some degree of spectacle and surprise?

It depends on what the ride is trying to acheive. For "jump scares" and shock, once you know what to expect there is no further surprises. But for something like telling the story of Charlie and the Choc Factory, yes there is less spectacle maybe the next time, but the story is still interesting (maybe not the best example of course as ATs version was lacking in spectacle).

A ride with an interesting and engaging story is worth re-riding. Going on something where it relies on jump scares is less repeatable.

 

[pj]

I know I am saying this not for the first time but I still think both the idea of screens for the windows instead of VR and an a hidden part of the carriage for actors in costume to jump out could be amazing. Imagine your first ride thinking the train is in motion and no one else could be on board. Oh abs yeah different storyline. Is it too soon for Corona?


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[Swarm Chris]

If the VR hardware is obsolete and unsupported by things like software updates, I’m afraid that that does pose a greater risk from things like hackers.

The hardware hasn't reached obsolete levels yet, and firmware is still maintained by Valve (although there's a high chance it has never actually been updated). The hardware was very well specified at the time, and combined with the way they re-recorded the content, could probably hold its own for a few more seasons technically. Biggest problem is that it was never designed to run 6 hours a day, everyday, and be mishandled by general public.

I don't understand why the Ghost Train hardware would need to be online at all?

Parts of Ghost Train have external access available to them, for reasons unknown. Some things can be controlled by a phone.

 

[Skyscraper]

Parts of Ghost Train have external access available to them, for reasons unknown. Some things can be controlled by a phone.

Well for a start doesn't each headset have a phone inside?

 

[imanautie]

Well for a start doesn't each headset have a phone inside?

No, Htc Vive is connected to a computer not a phone, it's a completely different setup (it's actually a seperate screen not piggy backing on the phone)

 

[Funcone]

THIS POST HAS SOME SPOILERS ABOUT DERREN BROWN'S GHOST TRAIN

Clearly DBGT isn’t well suited to a pandemic, and the number of staff it needs was always going to be a problem, particularly given Merlin’s track record. I do also agree that the storyline is too confusing, the height restriction’s too high, and the queue’s uninspiring… so sure, there are quite a few faults.

I was thinking though, is part of the problem that most enthusiasts have read or seen something on the Internet that tells them how it works? If you didn’t know what a Pepper’s Ghost effect was, and you hadn’t seen anything about the ride system, would you be more impressed? DBGT was always about illusion, and most illusions aren’t as good when you know how they’re done. Maybe some of the spoilers have spoilt it for some people. The trick with the train carriage is still a very good one when you don’t know how it’s done.

From the point of view of how it works as an illusion, there are some nice pieces of mis-direction. For example, we're told to take care when we're boarding the train, because 'it might sway from side to side'. If you didn't know what the illusion was, it would be a bit of a head scratcher. If you walk up to it going, 'Yeah, it's done with mirror', then it's lost its main point.

If you've spent a lot of time wondering how a trick's done, it can be nice to find out if you're right. Like getting the answer to a riddle. But if you haven't gone through the 'wondering' stage first, then getting told how it's done too soon ends up feeling anti-climatic.

 

[Skyscraper]

THIS POST HAS SOME SPOILERS ABOUT DERREN BROWN'S GHOST TRAIN

Clearly DBGT isn’t well suited to a pandemic, and the number of staff it needs was always going to be a problem, particularly given Merlin’s track record. I do also agree that the storyline is too confusing, the height restriction’s too high, and the queue’s uninspiring… so sure, there are quite a few faults.

I was thinking though, is part of the problem that most enthusiasts have read or seen something on the Internet that tells them how it works? If you didn’t know what a Pepper’s Ghost effect was, and you hadn’t seen anything about the ride system, would you be more impressed? DBGT was always about illusion, and most illusions aren’t as good when you know how they’re done. Maybe some of the spoilers have spoilt it for some people. The trick with the train carriage is still a very good one when you don’t know how it’s done.

From the point of view of how it works as an illusion, there are some nice pieces of mis-direction. For example, we're told to take care when we're boarding the train, because 'it might sway from side to side'. If you didn't know what the illusion was, it would be a bit of a head scratcher. If you walk up to it going, 'Yeah, it's done with mirror', then it's lost its main point.

If you've spent a lot of time wondering how a trick's done, it can be nice to find out if you're right. Like getting the answer to a riddle. But if you haven't gone through the 'wondering' stage first, then getting told how it's done too soon ends up feeling anti-climatic.

Well said mate. Part of the problem is mobile phones and social media; someone will go on a ride and take bucketloads of photos, then post them all over social media and spoil it for everyone.

 

[swalesuk01]

To me the illusion side of things wasn't the problem, I love to work out how the trick is done. To me its more disappointing when you can see how its done to easily.
My wife is always telling me of at kids parties with magicians because I will be at the back pointing out how its done if they are being lazy and only trying to fool the kids.
To me DBGT is just to disjointed if you look around the train set pieces you can see where the sets are joined with poor seals. I wish they could have hidden the inside of the train better so you actually walked into a victorian carriage and then you saw the tube interior.
At the moment as soon as you start to walk onto the bridge you can see what you are walking into. That is before the faff of the VR headset, the best bit was the new ending

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[jon81uk]

Yep the tricks and illusions aren't the issue, most of them work fine. Its the confusing plot and the general faff of the headsets that let it all down for me.

 

[Funcone]

Although the tricks aren't the main problem, if someone’s not being fooled by them, because they read how the tricks were done before they even experienced them, then it does mean they’re likely to focus more on the ride’s other faults. I’m not excusing the confusing storyline. Hex isn’t a great ride just because the haunted swing’s a good illusion. It has a strong storyline and more powerful piece of music as well. Nonetheless, when you go on a ride like DBGT, you’re supposed to be trying to work out how it’s done. I think a lot of enthusiasts would appreciate it more if they’d gone through that.

It’s like going on Thirteen for the first time knowing what happens in the crypt. But more so, because on Thirteen the mystery is what happens. On DBGT it’s how it happens.

 

[swalesuk01]

I get where you are coming from, but a good illusion should still leave you wondering how it is done even if you know how it is done.
For me even with out looking to hard in the main hall and the station you can see joins in the mirrors and light through gaps in the sets between rooms. Its the little attention to details that make the illusions fail.

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[Skyscraper]

I get where you are coming from, but a good illusion should still leave you wondering how it is done even if you know how it is done.
For me even with out looking to hard in the main hall and the station you can see joins in the mirrors and light through gaps in the sets between rooms. Its the little attention to details that make the illusions fail.

Well hopefully they've used their common sense and made some improvements during the closed season/lockdown. Highly unlikely though knowing Merlin.

 

[jon81uk]

Nonetheless, when you go on a ride like DBGT, you’re supposed to be trying to work out how it’s done.

To be honest I don't remember trying to work it out much, I just accepted the fact we were in a tube train putting a VR headset on.

 

[djtruefitt]

I think the hanging train is probably the most impressive part of the ride. You don’t normally spend long at all there so you don’t really have time to work out how it might be done.

Technical issues are the main issue, the amount of times I’ve done the ride and the headset hasn’t worked properly, ruining any kind of scare factor or surprise when half way through your headset breaks and you have to take it off and move.

I also agree that the story is a bit strange, and the way the ride has been changed around so much it makes even less sense, such as the random middle section now.

 

[Ian]

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with an effect created simply. If anything, some of the simplest solutions are the most effective. Disney make use of some incredibly simple ideas in some of their rides. Only earlier this week did I finally realise that the really rather impressive finale on Mickey and Minnie’s Runaway Railroad where the scene transforms from inside a building with large props to an outdoor scene surrounded by trees is achieved almost entirely by simply dropping/folding down some sheets of fabric. The same with Mystic Manor, there’s some really impressive projection tricks which are little more than thin strips of material dangling from the ceiling, or another finale which is just a set of hinged panels.

The real problem is quality of execution. “Simple” is not the same as “cheap”, but it’s the latter is what we often see here. But I do agree with the point raised about immersion. There’s that great line about if a guest says “wow, that was an impressive robot” in relation to an animatronic then you’ve failed at immersing the guest and getting them to see beyond the components of the effect. The response you want is “how did they do that?!”

 

[ChristmasPud]

I was thinking though, is part of the problem that most enthusiasts have read or seen something on the Internet that tells them how it works? If you didn’t know what a Pepper’s Ghost effect was, and you hadn’t seen anything about the ride system, would you be more impressed? DBGT was always about illusion, and most illusions aren’t as good when you know how they’re done. Maybe some of the spoilers have spoilt it for some people. The trick with the train carriage is still a very good one when you don’t know how it’s done.

When I first did the ride, I thought it was rubbish, and I had no idea how the illusions worked. I still don't, but I dont remember illusion being a big part of the ride anyway.

I mostly remember having to deliberately look out for the floating train because the layout/design of that room was so bad at presenting the illusion to guests. There was no impressive reveal or magic about it, it was just go round a corner then 'get on the train'. I couldnt quite believe how dull that moment was.

The rest the ride I just remember being a naff VR demo, with an awkward train scene in between.

But I dont remember light spilling behind mirrors or visible joins, I can only imagine that the scene lighting etc has been undermaintained over time.

 

[Plastic Person]

I mostly remember having to deliberately look out for the floating train because the layout/design of that room was so bad at presenting the illusion to guests. There was no impressive reveal or magic about it, it was just go round a corner then 'get on the train'. I couldnt quite believe how dull that moment was.

This is exactly the problem, the concept was cool and exciting but the execution was/is really poor. A few weeks from opening, they added a staff member on the stairs from the pre-show to 'explain' what you were going to see, and Derren himself added some dialogue for the ride's revamp/relaunch, inviting people to look around when they leave the train. Which they either never do, or instead hold up the line up of guests disembarking in doing so. Either way, any time you have to draw someone's attention to a big illusion, then surely you know the illusion doesn't do what it's supposed to.

This is another reason I find the ride to be so fascinating in it's absolutely hodgepodge crowbarring of concepts; some of the execution is subtle and old-school, whereas the main ride is completely obnoxious and doesn't involve anything remotely spooky. It's like sitting in the middle of a straight-to-DVD disaster movie.

 

[Matt N]

The thing I find about Derren Brown’s Ghost Train (from what I know of it and have seen of it) is that I’m not really entirely sure what it’s supposed to be. The name itself implies that the ride is a ghost train-style attraction, the facade sets you up for some sort of Victorian train-themed attraction, Derren’s pre-show sets you up for some sort of “experiment into fear” type thing, but the ride itself is a very modern, tube train journey which relates to some sort of gas that’s infecting people. Does anyone know how these different elements link together?

Dare I say, I actually think the name is a little bit of a misnomer, as the ride experience arguably doesn’t really look to resemble a ghost train. Although with that being said, I’m not really sure what else they could have called it; I certainly couldn’t come up with anything better...

I think the fact that the ride supposedly didn’t succeed is actually really sad, as it seemed to have a lot of effort and money put into it, and there was a huge amount of ambition and creativity exhibited by those who worked on it.

It must have taken real balls to build a ride like it, something so completely different to anything else ever built, and I admire and applaud the creativity of those who designed it. I’d actually argue that the ride is ahead of its time in many ways, because some of the techniques it employs are now being put into new attractions at places like Disney & Universal.

But I guess that’s just how the cookie crumbles...

 

[jon81uk]

’d actually argue that the ride is ahead of its time in many ways, because some of the techniques it employs are now being put into new attractions at places like Disney & Universal.

Are they? Disney & Universal have very much shied away from using VR. MarioKart is using AR, but I don't think Disney are going to go any where near the sort of stuff used on DBGT?

 

[Matt N]

Are they? Disney & Universal have very much shied away from using VR. MarioKart is using AR, but I don't think Disney are going to go any where near the sort of stuff used on DBGT?

I more meant in the sort of sense of a more individualised experience, and the whole live action/forced participation elements of the attraction. Take something like Smuggler’s Run, for example; that also uses forced participation. Rise of the Resistance also has sections of live action not too dissimilar to DBGT (albeit somewhat less frantic and somewhat less actor-led). Your aforementioned example of MarioKart was also something I was looking at.

While I admit it might not be the best analogy to use in hindsight, my point is that I think attractions like DBGT (in terms of a more individualised experience, and attractions that riders can interact with so to speak) are very much beginning to become a modern theme park trend, and DBGT arguably did it before a lot of the big companies started doing it.