RicketyCricket
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Thorpe Park: General Discussion
Jb85
TS Member
What @Prof Burp has said kind of makes sense. When you look at the way Alton and Chessington have been designed, it’s quite clear Tussaud’s planned for Chessington to be the AT of the south. I hat I don’t think they bargained for is the planning restrictions being so tight.
so I believe that led to them splitting the parks in terms of target audience with Thorpe being thrill Chessington being family.
the spanner in the works came with legoland, as it’s almost made Chessington redundant, until now with all the rumoured investments
this still makes me think there is a long term plan to jettison one of the three parks from the group
so I believe that led to them splitting the parks in terms of target audience with Thorpe being thrill Chessington being family.
the spanner in the works came with legoland, as it’s almost made Chessington redundant, until now with all the rumoured investments
this still makes me think there is a long term plan to jettison one of the three parks from the group
Prof Burp
TS Member
Well I've returned as a Ghost to evict the Grufalo and make Fizzy Pop. I can also tell you the history of Chessington from when I was alive. When you next visit Chessington say my name in front of my Grave in Wild Woods. My apparition will appear and teach you about rumours,history and news about Chessington. For now I'll go back in the ground.
Juce+Gas=knowledge
Juce+Gas=knowledge
Jb85
TS Member
Have you gone mad?
Matt.GC
TS Member
@Log Flume's Dennis brother. Legends
Jonathan
TS Member
It's the only plausible - and legal - explanation.
Jb85
TS Member
@Prof Burp so were did your perfectly plausible knowledge of colossus come from?
pluk
TS Member
For the avoidance of doubt, no.
Aaaanyway. The photographed pamphlet is notably different to the Chessington initial planning document. Theirs from the off on the front page mentioned not only the coaster but the support rides in a new area. This one talks of the new ride in the singular. Would be odd to word it that way if more was coming.
We could be looking at the loss of Rocky, Slammer, CCR and Flume to be replaced by just one ride. I don't like those numbers and hope this turns out to be a more fully formed development with support rides and a meaningful themed area.
Prof Burp
TS Member
@pluk I also disapprove these plans. I think Thorpe should retain Rocky Express,Timber Tug Boat and Lumber Jump. The Theme Park offers very little for Families so removing a trio of rides aimed at this demographic will be detrimental. In addition trading 3 rides for 1 will make through-put a nightmare. Thorpe Park is rapidly turning into an apocalyptic themed world. Thorpe Park wll be Fear Park if these horror themed rides continue to be installed.
The usual ketchup.
The Colossus debate is interesting.
I don't think there were any hard plans for Colossus to be at Chessington. But I'm under the impression that there were conversations about a multi-looper (potentially a record breaking one) to be installed at Chessington. How developed these conversations were I don't know and is anyone's guess.
Looking back, as others have said, Chessington was being heavily invested in by Tussauds in the 90s and had a slow build of thrilling rides with the likes of Rodeo, Rattlesnake and Rameses (all of which were popular at the time, remember). It was a very different park to the one it was now. After the successes of Nemesis and Oblivion, and their creativity with getting round planning restrictions, you can certainly see why their would have been temptation for a big thrill ride.
In saying that, the claim that the Thorpe Park fire was the catalyst for the changing markets and Thorpe getting Colossus... No. Tussauds recognised Thorpe's potential to be a more thrilling park way before 2000. There were submitted, hard, plans for a launch coaster on the site of Colossus, which was due to open in 2001. The park changed their minds and went with Colossus in the end, ultimately submitting plans for that in mid-2000.
tl;dr - There may have been some conversations about a ride like Colossus going to Chessington, but it's almost definitely not the case that Colossus as is was planned and then just transferred to Thorpe.
I see what you're saying, but that's a bit of a bending of the truth really.
CCR hasn't existed for 10 years now. It closed and Swarm opened. 1 in, 1 out.
Loggers closed in 2015, Derren opened in 2016. 1 in, 1 out.
Slammer died a slow and painful death in 2017. 1 out.
If Rocky goes (and the others) to be replaced by 1 new ride, then yeah, that's 3 out for 1 in. Not great on paper, but given how quiet the area usually is, I can understand part of the logic (not that I agree with the ever removal of small rides mind).
As I say, I see what you're saying and the park should really look to be meaningfully expanding their line up. And I do hope that whatever this investment is, it's more developed than just a coaster - we need a full area with a coaster, support ride(s), shop, restaurant, space for a Fright Nights attraction, etc. But I think to say we're losing those 4 rides for this investment is a little off the mark perhaps/
I don't think there were any hard plans for Colossus to be at Chessington. But I'm under the impression that there were conversations about a multi-looper (potentially a record breaking one) to be installed at Chessington. How developed these conversations were I don't know and is anyone's guess.
Looking back, as others have said, Chessington was being heavily invested in by Tussauds in the 90s and had a slow build of thrilling rides with the likes of Rodeo, Rattlesnake and Rameses (all of which were popular at the time, remember). It was a very different park to the one it was now. After the successes of Nemesis and Oblivion, and their creativity with getting round planning restrictions, you can certainly see why their would have been temptation for a big thrill ride.
In saying that, the claim that the Thorpe Park fire was the catalyst for the changing markets and Thorpe getting Colossus... No. Tussauds recognised Thorpe's potential to be a more thrilling park way before 2000. There were submitted, hard, plans for a launch coaster on the site of Colossus, which was due to open in 2001. The park changed their minds and went with Colossus in the end, ultimately submitting plans for that in mid-2000.
tl;dr - There may have been some conversations about a ride like Colossus going to Chessington, but it's almost definitely not the case that Colossus as is was planned and then just transferred to Thorpe.
I see what you're saying, but that's a bit of a bending of the truth really.
CCR hasn't existed for 10 years now. It closed and Swarm opened. 1 in, 1 out.
Loggers closed in 2015, Derren opened in 2016. 1 in, 1 out.
Slammer died a slow and painful death in 2017. 1 out.
If Rocky goes (and the others) to be replaced by 1 new ride, then yeah, that's 3 out for 1 in. Not great on paper, but given how quiet the area usually is, I can understand part of the logic (not that I agree with the ever removal of small rides mind).
As I say, I see what you're saying and the park should really look to be meaningfully expanding their line up. And I do hope that whatever this investment is, it's more developed than just a coaster - we need a full area with a coaster, support ride(s), shop, restaurant, space for a Fright Nights attraction, etc. But I think to say we're losing those 4 rides for this investment is a little off the mark perhaps/
pluk
TS Member
That's what I meant really but worded badly, not necessarily the number of attractions parkwide overall but more the range; that it was a complete area with something for everyone and if this is a standalone thrill ride then that's quite a loss and not really what I want to see.
What @pluk has said about supporting rides is very true. Then again there is a chance they plan to add some supporting rides a few years after the big coaster itself (which sounds like it will be very expensive). I reckon its all down to budget: Chessington was given probably a similar budget to Thorpe (maybe a bit lower) and they've decided to spend it on a coaster, some decent theming (well hopefully) and some supporting rides while Thorpe has been given the budget and plans to build one big ride. Now if it is a B&M hyper it could be argued that's a sensible decision but what concerns me is if they're spending so much on the coaster whether we'll see much theming which would be a shame because Merlin are actually quite good at theming (look at wicker man) and could probably do some really cool theming around a hyper.
What @Prof Burp was saying about colossus isn't entirely ridiculous if we didn't know the story of how Tussaurds came to acquire both Alton Towers and Thorpe. Pearson, owners of Tussaurds at the time, wanted to be the brand leaders, and John Wardley and team originally planned to do this at chessington, hence rides like Vampire however they quickley learned the planners weren't going to let them build big enough rides so when went on a search for a park they could do
this in. They eventually acquired Alton which they build up as the brand leader and I'd argue it still is today.
Thorpe was competing directly with Chessington, which by this point was a family orientated park with a few thrill rides for the adults, and so they bought Thorpe to stop this. The plan was from the beginning to change the direction of Thorpe into a thrill park. They needed to present this image quick and so they worked with Intamin to break the inversion record. As they were in a rush, and wanted to break the inversion record, Intamin took most of the design from colossus and added the rolls at the end. They only did this because they were in a rush and not because they were being lazy. I'm sure somewhere John Wardley said he never wanted to adapt an original design for colossus but they simply didn't have the time.
So overall it is possible a big thrill coaster was considered at Chessington however they quickly learned they couldn't get the permission. As colossus was rushed it was likely never planned for Chessington but something of similar scale might well have done.
What @Prof Burp was saying about colossus isn't entirely ridiculous if we didn't know the story of how Tussaurds came to acquire both Alton Towers and Thorpe. Pearson, owners of Tussaurds at the time, wanted to be the brand leaders, and John Wardley and team originally planned to do this at chessington, hence rides like Vampire however they quickley learned the planners weren't going to let them build big enough rides so when went on a search for a park they could do
this in. They eventually acquired Alton which they build up as the brand leader and I'd argue it still is today.
Thorpe was competing directly with Chessington, which by this point was a family orientated park with a few thrill rides for the adults, and so they bought Thorpe to stop this. The plan was from the beginning to change the direction of Thorpe into a thrill park. They needed to present this image quick and so they worked with Intamin to break the inversion record. As they were in a rush, and wanted to break the inversion record, Intamin took most of the design from colossus and added the rolls at the end. They only did this because they were in a rush and not because they were being lazy. I'm sure somewhere John Wardley said he never wanted to adapt an original design for colossus but they simply didn't have the time.
So overall it is possible a big thrill coaster was considered at Chessington however they quickly learned they couldn't get the permission. As colossus was rushed it was likely never planned for Chessington but something of similar scale might well have done.
ThemeParkAddict
TS Member
Is there really space for a hyper in that corner of the park? Obviously they'd need to cut down a lot of trees and completely remove the last traces of Logger's Leap, because even with the three kids rides down there removed that's barely enough space for an entrance plaza.
Looking at the satellite view I think there probably is if you use all the space Loggers Leap took up as well as the strip of land above it. In fact because of it's shape it might well make a quite different layout to other B&M hyper's which is a good thing as some of them are quite similar.
jon81uk
TS Member
The station building wouldn't be any bigger than Swarms and that would fit on the Loggers Leap station & queue site I think.
IF they could follow the old Canada Creek railway line for track out and back to the islands of the lake it might work, but space would be tight.
Also then replacement Slammer with a new flat and Saw Live too.