Towers Loving Care

[DiogoJ42]

The guys doing the work on Duel are reading this topic and no doubt taking on board concerns.

Then I offer them my services as a lighting consultant. 17 years in the industry. Rates available on request.

 

[Matt Creek]

The confirmed TLC work on Duel makes me both happy and concerned.

The lighting in the attraction of late had definitely been needing work as it was rather mush-mash in places, however I am rather worried when it comes to UV light treatment. Professional or not professional, there are different setups for UV lights which can be wrong or right depending on the situation.

A good UV setup should only highlight things only intended to be in view whilst remaining dark and mysterious. Not highlight the whole building including out of house areas.

Tomb Blaster’s lighting alteration was done so poorly and I worry the same has happened hear. Fingers crossed the TLC team can prove me wrong and deliver good quality UV lighting.

As for the sound track, it’s an interesting move which I hope improves the experience.

 

[ParkBoi]

Saw that they said this in reply to something. I'm probably reading into it a bit too much but the fact they're saying the surgeon's been found and "Its time for the next chapter for the undead" suggests to me they're thinking of getting rid of the zombies. (or atleast coming up with a new storyline).

 

[bluesonichd]

Then I offer them my services as a lighting consultant. 17 years in the industry. Rates available on request.

You should do it for free out of the kindness of your heart. And to make sure it’s dont done correct.

Saw that they said this in reply to something. I'm probably reading into it a bit too much but the fact they're saying the surgeon's been found and "Its time for the next chapter for the undead" suggests to me they're thinking of getting rid of the zombies. (or atleast coming up with a new storyline).

Until this week I didn’t even realise there was a storyline to begin with

 

[DiogoJ42]

You should do it for free out of the kindness of your heart. And to make sure it’s dont correct.

People round here like to keep spouting "Alton Towers are a business".... Well so am I. Difference is, they have shareholders to brown nose, while I have rent to pay.

 

[bluesonichd]

I don’t understand why they are fitting uv leds. Why not stick to the original black lights.
I bet it’s some king of EU Must go green and save energy thing

 

[DiogoJ42]

Because people who don't understand lighting have heard that LEDs use less power, so are cheaper to run. Plus they get to boast about how many trees they hug. The same thing has been happening in telly for years now.
LEDs have their place, but just like any technology, it's a case of "right tool for the right job".

To put it in Father Ted terms, comparing LED "UV" to true blacklight is like comparing "black" socks to "priest" socks.

 

[JB1985]

Then I offer them my services as a lighting consultant. 17 years in the industry. Rates available on request.

Interesting l work in lighting industry- pm me as it’s way off topic. Just interested what you do etc

 

[ChristmasPud]

UV makes a big difference to the whole ride, scenes will be very different depending on the lighting. It currently looks like they're using LED UV in this Duel revamp.

LED is great technology but takes high quality fixures to reproduce a more natural looking lighting effect.

The Haunted House originally used blacklight more as a lighting 'illusion', not as 'glow in the dark'. The ride began with a natural 'candlelight' look, then the scenes got more surreal as the ride went on.

Most scenes had painted-on detail, by a professional scenic studio that specialised in blacklight art. It used careful UV to give the illusion of depth & texture in darkness, then spotlighting parts in tungsten for surprises and effects. Vivid but not a ghost trainy 'glow in the dark' look.

The blacklight was actually removed between 93 and 95, because the park decided to remarket it as a straightforward ghost train (at the loss of the original style).

LED UV can produce a lot of excess visible light, making the sets look flat and bathed purple, so hopefully they're not going to end up with this. Standard flourescent tubes don't last as long but are still very easily to source and replace. Most the original blacklight scenery has largely faded anyway, or was painted over between 1995 and 2003.

Also, the flying heads used UV strobes - standard strobes with Wood's Glass filters (since you cant strobe a flourescent tube). However the original filters were removed a few years ago and Woods glass is not manufactured much anymore.

 

[Bert2theSpark]

With all this new UV lighting around the place and a new soundtrack, It'll give the ride a completely different atmosphere to what it has in the past!

It's like a retheme but with the same theming!

 

[Matt.GC]

Haunted houses aren't supposed to look like lazer quest battlegrounds. It should appear candle lit throughout, as if it were natural lighting and be as dim as possible

I know nothing about lighting whatsoever, but I think this is a perfect description in layman's terms of what it shouldn't and what it should look like!

 

[Dave]

For others who probably never heard of UV (which is absolutely fine), this isn't some techie perfectionist thing. It makes a big difference to the whole ride, scenes will be very different depending on the lighting. It currently looks like they're using LED UV in this Duel revamp.

LED is a god send for nightclubs and street lights. But not for scenic effects like a naturalistic look or scenic blacklight. I spoke to someone I know in the film industry who says LED lamps are avoided wherever possible in professional studios, but are often used for reliability & cost.

The Haunted House originally used blacklight more as a lighting 'illusion', not as 'glow in the dark'. The ride began with a natural 'candlelight' look, then the scenes got surreal as the ride went on.

Most scenes had painted-on detail, by a professional scenic studio that specialised in blacklight (who turned down a Disneyland Paris attraction to do Haunted House). It used careful UV to give the illusion of depth & texture in darkness, then spotlighting parts in tungsten for surprises and effects. Vivid, but not a ghost trainy 'glow in the dark' look.

The blacklight was actually removed between 93 and 95, because the park decided to remarket it as a straightforward horror ghost train (at the loss of the original character).

LED UV can produce a lot of excess visible light, making the sets look flat and bathed purple, so hopefully they're not going to end up with this. Standard flourescent tubes don't last as long but are still very easily to source and replace. Most the original blacklight scenery has largely faded anyway, or was painted over with cheaper 'ghost trainy' UV between 1995 and 2003.

Also, the flying heads used UV strobes - standard strobe bulbs with Wood's Glass filters on (since you cant strobe a flourescent tube - and you needed to use true blacklight or it would show up the mechanisms). However the original filters were binned a few years ago and Woods glass is not manufactured much anymore.

I have no opinion on the world of lighting other than knowing that the folk doing the TLC are qualified in the field. But using a picture of opening year haunted house against the TLC images is no great demonstrator of comparable quality when the former is likely a digitisation of film photography and the later likely a smart phone image.

The colour balance will be way off.

 

[DiogoJ42]

While that is true to a point, normal digital cameras can't pick up UV. Therefore the new lamps must be emmitting light at a visible wavelength. Therefore they are purple, not UV.

I fear that someone involved in the project must have seen this bright purple glow and assumed "brighter = better".

 

[ChristmasPud]

But using a picture of opening year haunted house against the TLC images is no great demonstrator of comparable quality when the former is likely a digitisation of film photography and the later likely a smart phone image.

The colour balance will be way off.

Yes, they won't be an accurate like for like comparison, but the Haunted House pictures are true to how they'd have appeared to the eye. They were taken as tests by the studio that designed & built the ride, for the very purpose of recording the original lighting designs for the future and therefore they had to be accurate.

The images posted by TLC are obviously low res and show a work in progress, but already show LED UV light units pointing at scenes which are not painted with any UV (the hall) and a strong visible purple hue, which - if it were true blacklight - wouldn't be nearly as strong on camera.

If TLC didn't want others to judge the work based on mobile phone pictures, then they presumably shouldnt have posted them publicly. As always, people should wait til it's finished and go in person, but I think our post is a reasonable commentary.

I have no opinion on the world of lighting

Nobody needs to know the technical details behind lighting, audio, etc to enjoy something. But everyone should appreciate how these things are vital to everybody's experience, which is why care should be taken by those behind the scenes. It makes a huge difference, without people ever necessarily realising how, that's one of the great things about theme parks.

 

[Benjsh]

Just take it back to the early 90's version. Looked amazing, sounded amazing and was actually pretty creepy for a Haunted house ride.

 

[Error]

Don't know why they have a picture of a guy at a keyboard looking smug, its just the Ghostbusters theme tune.

 

[Tim]

I have used LED UV Batons and I have to agree they don't have the same effect as Fluorescent Tube Blacklights. The people who produce them will claim they do but as others have said they produce a lot more visible light. This would be perfectly fine for an attraction which is meant to be bright or look like a cartoon but might not suit Duel.

I'm very excited about the new Audio!

 

[Dave]

While that is true to a point, normal digital cameras can't pick up UV. Therefore the new lamps must be emmitting light at a visible wavelength. Therefore they are purple, not UV.

I fear that someone involved in the project must have seen this bright purple glow and assumed "brighter = better".

You have known the folk doing the lighting so you tell me....

 

[Dave]

Yes, they won't be an accurate like for like comparison, but the Haunted House pictures are true to how they'd have appeared to the eye. They were taken as tests by the studio that designed & built the ride, for the very purpose of recording the original lighting designs for the future and therefore they had to be accurate.

The images posted by TLC are obviously low res and show a work in progress, but already show LED UV light units pointing at scenes which are not painted with any UV (the hall) and a strong visible purple hue, which - if it were true blacklight - wouldn't be nearly as strong on camera.

If TLC didn't want others to judge the work based on mobile phone pictures, then they presumably shouldnt have posted them publicly. As always, people should wait til it's finished and go in person, but I think our post is a reasonable commentary.

Nobody needs to know the technical details behind lighting, audio, etc to enjoy something. But everyone should appreciate how these things are vital to everybody's experience, which is why care should be taken by those behind the scenes. It makes a huge difference, without people ever necessarily realising how, that's one of the great things about theme parks.

Sorry for the double post....

The issue isn’t the original intent of the photographer, it’s the fact the film has been digitised.

The guys behind the lighting of this are from a theatre background, now one thing they might have to contend with is equipment acquired at a price but they will do the best they can with what they have.

 

[DiogoJ42]

You have known the folk doing the lighting so you tell me....

Just for the record, I have no idea who is in charge of the lighting on this project. I'm making assumptions just like everyone else in this thread.

There is, of course, a massive difference between how a camera "sees" light compared to the human eye. I've based my career around this! But this only adds to my concern. For the so-called "UV" light to be that vivid on camera, it must be blindingly bright to the eye.

The best case scenario as I see it, is that the lamps in question are on at full whack while they are being set (easiest way to see where you are pointing them), and they will be run at a far dimmer level under show conditions. But it still won't solve the initial problem of them not being the right colour in the first place.

Oh, and believe me, the whole entertainment industry is based around doing the best you can with what you have!