Turning a corner or a False Dawn? Towers and it's future

[Matt N]

In a weird way, Matt, what you seem to have done here is write a post where the main body of what you've written more or less entirely counterpoints your intro and conclusion.

The fact that you start the body your post by listing five major issues, covering three quite distinct areas that are vital to the success of the park is probably not the best place to start, but then there only seems to be a couple of mildly positive point that you're making to counter these major issues. It somewhat gives a sense that the argument being made is that 'it's not as bad as people make out, because it could be so much worse'.

I do agree with your point that the wholesale change in management makes it difficult to tell what the trajectory will be, but otherwise I fear you've made a compelling case as to why there is not yet any indication that we have actually turned a corner (whilst is may be possible that maybe a corner might be in sight).

That post probably didn’t end up the most coherent in hindsight; I apologise for that.

I wasn’t saying that we have completely turned a corner or that everything is terrific. My point was more that I feel that some of the alarmist “We’re in a death spiral, everything at Alton Towers is woe and heartbreak” rhetoric you hear around these parts is overblown, and that there are positive, encouraging things happening at the park too.

With regard to flat rides, for example; the park does currently lack flat rides, but I feel that Project Ocean is an encouraging start to rectify this issue and it may not be the only one coming in the short to medium term if comments from Bianca Samut are anything to go by.

And with regard to the comment made by @Matt.GC about poor quality theming and maintenance, they are gradually working their way around the park and sprucing bits up, with Alton Manor seeing Gloomy Wood get spruced up very nicely and Nemesis Reborn seeing Forbidden Valley get spruced up very nicely. These new areas are stunning, on my view (particularly Forbidden Valley), and I have faith that other slightly more downtrodden parts of the park will gradually be spruced up in the same manner.

With regard to opening hours; while some aspects of opening hours have been weaker this year (e.g. occasional 5pm closes in August), they have improved in other aspects, which I feel is a positive worth commenting on. The contentious 4pm closes are reducing in number, and we no longer have midweek closure days; surely that is positive, no? Admittedly, however, more recent developments may render the trajectory of opening hours more neutral than positive.

Maybe I shouldn’t have mentioned Project Horizon as a positive, because that project is in limbo and we don’t really know the status of it… if it is coming in 2026, that would make it a positive, but if not, then that makes a significant negative of the park having gone years without a major investment and having nothing new in the pipeline.

My point is that I don’t think it’s all doom and gloom in terms of the long term trajectory, and we simply don’t know what that trajectory will look like just yet. There are positive signs as well as negative in my view, however, and I think some of the utter rock bottom rhetoric being thrown around about the future is not entirely justified.

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@Matt.GC Apologies; I had started writing this post before you posted your reply. To address a few of the points you make:

• In terms of things on people’s to-do lists that I was referring to as “nice to haves”, I wasn’t referring to some of the issues I pointed out in the first paragraph. I was referring to other things I’ve seen mentioned like “build more water rides”, “build more dark rides”, “retool Walliams World”, “retool Dark Forest”, “retool X-Sector” and such. I don’t personally think some of these points (not all) are absolutely essential and need dealing with right away. With the areas in particular that people say need redoing, I think some of these can wait and be dealt with in the longer term, as I feel like there are more pressing issues to deal with and having some areas to touch up and add to in the future will naturally be a part of any park’s long term to-do list. With regard to dark rides; once Hex reopens, the park will have 4. I think that’s a solid enough number for a park that isn’t Disney or Universal, personally, and not overly high on the park’s list of deficit areas. With regard to water rides; I get the sentiment, but Britain is not an overly warm country, and water rides have high running costs and only have broad appeal during a limited window of the season, so I feel that there are bigger priorities. More generally, however, my point is that some of the stuff being mentioned as an absolutely terminal issue is not as pressing and could easily be in the pipeline to address as part of any regular long-term plan rather than being something that needs addressing now.
• You say that stuff like the areas being spruced up and Hex and Skyride reopening is “just standard upkeep”, but my point is more that this is an improvement on what we would have had before. Go back 5-10 years, and Hex and Skyride would likely just have closed without replacement. Heck, Nemesis probably would have been removed, as would Duel. The fact that we are seeing them spruce this stuff up and put effort into reopening attractions that have had terminal maintenance problems is a big improvement on what we would once have seen, so in terms of trajectory, how can that be anything other than positive?
• You say that “the guest experience doesn’t look as though it will get better any time soon”, but I’d argue that Project Ocean on the way and Hex and Skyride reopening will improve things. They won’t be absolute game changers in the grand scheme of things; Alton’s issues are too multi-faceted for them to be able to change the game. But they will be baby steps of improvement, and in a long game like improving Alton inevitably will be, I think baby steps are a positive. Rome wasn’t built in a day; I think we need to be patient to some degree.

 

[Matt.GC]

I don't think the argument is that Alton is in some sort of death spiral. It's whether it's turning a corner, or just treading water. And for every shiny new shipping container in Forbidden Valley for Thoosies to coo at, there's a monorail train ready to kick the bucket with no funds to sort it out. The Sky Ride has been closed for ages, Hex has been closed for ages, and whilst I'm sure there's well intended works going on, investment cash is finite. For all we know, Capex may have been diverted away from Horizon to fix the mess other attractions are in. That's not turning a corner, that's damage limitation.

I don't buy this Bianca and Scott White Knight stuff. They could be the most talented individuals in the industry, but they can't magic cash out of thin air, and Alton needs loads of it. If we were at the dawn of some new golden era, then we would have seen the cash flooding in years ago. But it's a business at the end of the day, and I doubt the business case is there anymore. The bar was lowered years ago, and all a change in leadership has an impact on is where that same finite pot of cash is spent.

Who knows? That boogie man Varney that everyone likes to boo and hiss at signed off the Nemesis retrack and that Brake Run coaster at Thorpe. Many people seem to like both of those? If he was still at the helm, he may have have rubber stamped Horizon and kept the spa open and let Hex and the Sky Ride go for all we know.

There seems to be a step back for every step made forward. Everything good is at the expense of something else. In my view, it's been a pretty terrible season for Alton this year. Someone stuck in an hour monorail queue, trecking past closed Skyride stations looking for a ride they can actually get on, or chomping down on dog muck in a bun that cost £14, really couldn't care less if there may or may not be 3 flat rides coming at some point the future, or what kind of speaker system is rumoured to be installed in Hex. And by the time all that good stuff comes along, something else will be broken, closed, removed, or in need of long term refurbishment.

 

[BarryZola]

I Wouldn't even get too hopeful about those 3 flat rides for next year to be honest. As I predicted probably over a year ago now I reckon Horizon was kicked into the long grass. Spent the money on Duel and Nemesis and now the new flat in FV (1 of the 3 flats to be fair). Now Merlin have almost definitely not brought in as much revenue as expected over the past year and the budgets have been slashed.

 

[Dave]

My primary concern at the moment is the ride uptime. All the points about reduced number of flat rides and opening hours are valid points but opening hours are likely reactionary to the crap attendance this year and they are currently building at least one flat ride so it’s clear they are aware of the gap in the park on that point.

But the fact they can’t seem to get rides up and running is a real concern, either they can’t keep the staff or the rides are so old they are fighting a losing battle, if the latter is the case that’s going to require a hell of a lot of money just to stand still.

This is the issue, I think if a member of this forum suddenly became a billionaire and bought Towers they still would struggle to move the resort in a positive direction very quickly as Merlin and the latter part of Tussauds have just sucked the marrow out of its bones.

 

[venny]

It’s true. The underinvestment and neglect over so many years means that there needs to be significant investment just to stand still. There’s clearly some investment in the park, but the current level doesn’t appear sufficient to provide significant new rides along with bringing the rest of the existing park back up to standard in the near future.

Standing still for a major theme park isn’t good enough, they require regular new attractions. Without those and delivery of a decent guest experience (good upkeep and ride availability) there’s unlikely to be an uptick or even retention of visitors. I think that’s probably where the death spiral narrative arises from some quarters.

 

[owenstreet7]

Personally, one of the easiest fixes that could be done would be to get the empty spaces back up and running.

I know the flat ride spaces are the obvious ones however it's areas like the 4D Cinema and Nickelodeon Outta Control that could be brought back into use as attractions on lower investment years.

I believe Towers Street has some empty spaces that they could use for retail, restaurants or services?

 

[Matt.GC]

To truly turn a corner, they always needed a huge amount of investment. I'm sure money has flooded in, but the amount needed to really move on from the dark ages of the past 8 years just isn't there. We'd know by now, with how long they've been private for, if that investment was on it's way.

Nemesis is, for all intents and purposes, a brand new coaster from a costly manufacturer. That's a new coaster's worth of budget right there just to stand still. If 3 permanent flats are on the way, that's not far off the cost of another big investment attraction, just to replace stuff that has been and gone, and they'd still be a flat down on where they were a few years ago. The work going into the Skyride and Hex, £millions more just to get them back open like they were a couple of years ago anyway.

Oblivion is now 26 years old. RMT is 32. The Rapids dates back to the 80's, has next to no theming, and costs more to run than ever before. The Monorail is end of life and is one of the most expensive things I can think of to refurbish or replace. To get the Dungeon building kitted out as a new family attraction and the 4d cinema back open, that's another good few £million.

That's before you consider the visual and theming degradation throughout the resort, the awful rotting state of Walliams Cuckoo Dungeon World being a primary concern.

That's many tens of millions of pounds just to get the park back to the kind of level it was at 10-20 years ago. Another good £15 million would be needed to build and market a new major attraction too, and the park hasn't had one since 2018. With energy costs now higher, attendance suspected to currently be poor, and staff wages rising rapidly, when they clearly don't pay enough already judging by how they struggle to get their decreasing selection of aging hardware open on time and running all day.

That's all just not going to happen folks. It would be interesting to know what the long term plan for the place is actually. But trying hold their head above water by investing £millions in stopping even further decline is probably all they can do. It'll need to be spent wisely (Alton Manor maybe a good example of this?) and I'm not sure they're necessarily doing that at the moment. That's easy to say from a sedentary position of course, but I can't believe they've opened the park in the state it's been in these past 2 seasons. It's probably actually been quite a hard choice. What do you do in such a situation with all these arrows flying in and such a large in-tray?

 

[BarryZola]

It needs a Sheikh Mansoor type to go in and buy it and not just run it to try to maximize profit. You could probably run it in a good way for customers and still regularly make a modest profit. A modest profit is not good enough for investment firms though, you've got to absolutely rinse every penny possible of profit without compromise.

 

[addy2503]

As much as I love Nemesis & do like what they did with the retheme, I do wonder if the retrack was actually the best idea for the park? Given the investment involved I do think they would have been better off not doing it, and either sticking with the original plan of replacing it with something new in the same location, or building something new elsewhere & removing it in another few years (or pushing the retrack back a few years?).
Then they could have actually had something new to advertise & bring people in with rather than 'just the same old coaster', and if building something elsewhere would have been an overall boost to ride capacity rather than one season with reduced capacity last year then back to where it was before.

Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using Tapatalk

 

[Dave]

As much as I love Nemesis & do like what they did with the retheme, I do wonder if the retrack was actually the best idea for the park? Given the investment involved I do think they would have been better off not doing it, and either sticking with the original plan of replacing it with something new in the same location, or building something new elsewhere & removing it in another few years (or pushing the retrack back a few years?).
Then they could have actually had something new to advertise & bring people in with rather than 'just the same old coaster', and if building something elsewhere would have been an overall boost to ride capacity rather than one season with reduced capacity last year then back to where it was before.

Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using Tapatalk

Nemesis is a core part of the park, seriously if they had gotten rid of it that would have gone down like a lead balloon.

 

[addy2503]

Nemesis is a core part of the park, seriously if they had gotten rid of it that would have gone down like a lead balloon.

Totally agree, I wouldn't ever want Nemesis to be removed, think I'm more questioning the timing of the retrack? If they'd left it maybe another 5 years (assuming it wasn't at the point of imminent failure) then they could have used the budget to install some other rides, maybe a new coaster and a few flats? Particularly coming out of COVID & with cost of living etc, it could have been a better decision (not that I know anything about running a business line Towers, just speculating really).
The mention of replacing Nemesis was only because I was aware that was their original plan instead of the retrack

 

[DistortAMG]

Totally agree, I wouldn't ever want Nemesis to be removed, think I'm more questioning the timing of the retrack? If they'd left it maybe another 5 years (assuming it wasn't at the point of imminent failure) then they could have used the budget to install some other rides, maybe a new coaster and a few flats? Particularly coming out of COVID & with cost of living etc, it could have been a better decision (not that I know anything about running a business line Towers, just speculating really).
The mention of replacing Nemesis was only because I was aware that was their original plan instead of the retrack

That extra budget would have likely been eaten into with the ever growing preventative and reactive maintenance that needed to be carried out on Nemesis every year, at a growing rate, as the coaster and it's problems grew due to it's age and intensity. At least with re tracking it now, those costs are very minimal going forward. I bet the money spent each year of the old Nemesis, was reaching into the many hundreds of thousands year on year, just to keep it open.

 

[Ash]

It needs a Sheikh Mansoor type to go in and buy it and not just run it to try to maximize profit. You could probably run it in a good way for customers and still regularly make a modest profit. A modest profit is not good enough for investment firms though, you've got to absolutely rinse every penny possible of profit without compromise.

I disagree.

The people running UK theme parks (DIC/Blackstone/Merlin), for the past 20 years, have proven they do not know how to make their theme parks “better” on their own terms.

When you see what Paultons and Drayton are doing with smaller budgets and smaller attendances. You see what Europa and Efteling have done. They are all in their own way or area offering far better experiences for guests. And I’d argue in Europa and Eftelings case we’ve seen them push on in terms of growing visitor numbers, whereas Alton has stagnated.

Alton could and should be attracting worldwide visitors who come to the UK. A combination of transport, brand recognition, quality seems to be preventing/have prevented that.

You combine this with the financialisation of the park, that I’d argue started with the car park charge. We agreed to pay for something that was previously free, with the promise of improvements which never came.

Then fast track grew arms and legs to the point now where you can have 5 queues for any one attraction (normal, fast track, ambulance RAP, Non ambulance RAP and single rider) and operations have become a farce.

Again the annual pass greed of getting those hundreds of pounds a year, but under cutting the day guest and the value proposition of your product as people enter “freely” on the regular. Combined with the constant 241s, believing people “want” the offer to encourage them to visit, instead of the product itself being good enough to warrant a ticket.

Then the ongoing disaster on park, current attractions left to rot and ruin. Basic maintenance, upkeep even cosmetic as towers street peels and falls apart. From the general cleanliness of everything, the lack of refurbs.

The now outsourced games, stuck garishly in every available free space. Arcade machines whirring in the background. The ones in front of RMT, smiler and bottom of towers street look awful.

The new additions continually underwhelm or make things worse.

2003 Duel - worse
2004 Splash Kart Challenge - worse/up-charge
2004 Spinball - wrong location/themeless
2005 Rita - see above
2006 CATCF - worse/unfinished
2006 Driving school - wrong location
2007 Haunted hollow - not an attraction
2007 Dungheap - shit play area
2007 Golf - Done cheaply, needed covering
2008 Battle galleons - better but empty 3/4 the year
2008 heave ho - Improvement
2009 Sharkabit reef - Improvement but borrowed from elsewhere
2010 Thirteen - Improvement but executed badly
2012 Ice Age - Improvement but couldn’t last
2012 Sub Terra - See above
2013 Smiler - Improvement but executed badly
2014 CBeebies - Improvement
2015 Treetop Quest - Improvement but failed
2015 Octonauts - Improvement
2018 Wickerman - Improvement, no replacement water ride
2019 Dungeons - Executed badly failed
2021 Retro Squad - Disgrace
2023 Curse - Improvement
2024 Reborn - Necessity

Needless to say it’s been a rough 20 years, for new additions, with it feels like things only just starting to turn a corner, but generally reliant on a few key people to keep the wheels pointing in the right direction. I’d argue it’s at least a lost decade of getting things right.

The above doesn’t cover the removals, the theming clashes, the general mixture of attractions available. Attractions for all ages, heights, groups and ones that don’t need a queue! Arguably now there’s only sharkbait reef that’s suitable for all the family you don’t need to queue for. That’s woeful for a park of Alton’s size and stature.

In terms of rides for the whole family (kids, adults, grandparents), I’m thinking something like POTC/Fata Morgana/PIB, Ratatouille/Symbolica, Soarin/Voltarium, Arthur there is no equivalent at Alton which seems a real hole in the lineup (Maybe Hex or RMT but not a “headliner”)

Events, they’ve improved but again have been inconsistent. The removal of mardis gras, festival of thrills and the great bucket and spade event seems a real miss. Again we’ve seen mardis gra and Oktoberfest applied blanket fashion to the parks. I’d argue mardis gras wasn’t really suitable for Alton and another bad decision made from HQ. Christmas was scaled up, then scaled back. Scarefest has been allowed to go stale, and no surprises when people don’t come rushing back.

We’ve had the temporary stage on the lawns, in fountain square and back again. Almost as if they need a permanent event space…It can’t be that difficult to plan Spring (Festival of Thrills), Summer (Bucket and Spade), Autumn (Oktoberfest/Scarefest), Winter (Fireworks/Xmas), Feb Half Term (Pirates) and try to improve them every year. The whole point of events is they are rare and special to give another reason for a visit or a way to stretch out the day or soak up some queues. Whereas we now we seem to have the Epcot forever festival with no infrastructure.

Accommodation, ATH needs a refresh of the common areas. It needs some standards instilling everywhere. The “normal” refreshed rooms are awful and depressing, whoever signed off on them should be sacked. Why is there no clear/logical/illuminated path from the hotel entrance to the monorail or FV entrance, after 30 years?!

I haven’t stayed in splash for years but the state of the recent wood painting, again was worse and “cartoonish”. And the place lacked the vibrancy it once had (is the van still there, do the water features work?). The evenings are some sort of nightmarish hunger games scenario, and breakfast feels like something similar. (More on food later) I’ve never stopped in the village or cabins, the village looks fine but the cabins look lacking.

Food…it’s awful. Awful for breakfast. Awful in the hotels. Awful on park. Overpriced. Terrible selection and badly delivered. Another terrible decision from HQ, executed worse locally. No amount of cupcakes or milkshakes will make up for it. It’s crap start to finish. Burger kitchen isn’t even close to a patch on something like the Diner at Paultons. Just do that, just copy it, the menu, prices, theming and execution. The white horse at Efteling compare it to what was/should be Towers St family restaurant or Krumel Bakery in Efteling to Corner Coffee or Ground Command and it borders on comical.

There’s not enough places to sit, anywhere. Or enough selection of seating. Indoors. Outdoors. Partly covered. Somewhere clean to god forbid put cutlery down. Or somewhere quiet to sit and have a coffee. Has anyone at Alton gone in to corner coffee when it’s busy, with the noise and lack of seats and flummoxed staff, or the throng of people waiting for coffee. It’s a miserable place to be and not fit for purpose. Or there’s ground command, again, small, dingy, dark, sticky floor, horrible sofas, low ceilings. It’s just wrong. This should of been the shop for nemesis with the new shop a F&B unit (you can thank me later)

Roller coaster restaurant and woodcutters are meant to be the best places for eat on park, and again. There’s a queue. It’s sticky. A bit dingy. You get looked after with a grunt. Is it food? Is it made fresh, on site, in a kitchen? Are burgers cooked on a grill? Do I have to always use an app to order everything? Speaking of which, why can’t the more “click and collect” items be incorporated into the app as seems to be the theme nowadays.

I beg anyone from ST10 who reads this, just open up the former towers street family restaurant or Swiss Cottage with a kitchen, a chef who makes actual food from scratch on site, with a knife and fork and a plate, ands someone who takes my order and I will pay whatever price you want. It’s open season. Name your price. Otherwise I’d implore all of you to bring your own sandwiches or go to the Alton Bridge pub offsite until they learn.

Retail…I thought theme parks liked making money? Our American cousins have shown us how it’s done. Why is thirteens shop closed? (Should it be closer to the ride exit…) Why was the best themed shop on the park Katanga cargo from 92? until this year? Why does towers street shop look like a Woolworths before it shut? TCCAM and N:R shops are great, but what about everywhere else. Make good merch and people will buy it. For events, characters, shows, rides, areas. There’s plenty to go at. Make some of it passholder exclusive, time exclusive, event exclusive etc etc. Can you still send merch back to your hotel? If not why not?

If you have a theme park that shuts at 4/5, and you have 750 resort guests. What do you expect them to do between 4 and midnight? They will spend money if you give them more than re-heated food and an arcade. Again how is this still an issue…it’s not a resort it’s a premier inn with a theme park attached. There’s 500 acres, a monorail and a theme park and we can’t work out things for them to do? Exclusive tours of the park after the gates have closed? Or buggy rides to visit to towers ruins? Exclusive hotel only events on park?

Just a brief mention of transport. Still no bypass, still no railway, still no re-surfaced meadow. But the improved lighting and paving is a plus. But the monorail still needs a long term plan.

Other crap, we’ve had yourday come and go, we had the guest services kiosks come and go. The towers had crux, that was shut. The towers themselves shut, reopened and now another pay for attraction (I’d argue to replace the lost dungeons revenue perhaps?)

I could go on (surprise surprise) but it’s late and I’ll return to edit tomorrow!

The park has to lean into its sense of place/history, ‘unique’ theming and long term storytelling/universe building.

Go away from that and they’re in trouble even more

 

[BarryZola]

Which part of getting a rich Sheikh Mansoor type who wants to run the place in the right way for the sake of the product did you disagree with? My point was that this type of person running the place would be more likely to run it in the ways you've suggested, unlike the current Merlin way. Were you just suggesting that other theme park owners like Looping Group could run Towers better than Merlin? Arguably there's a point there but Drayton still have a parking charge and I'm hearing lately totally overpriced food and were offering rubbish contracts for techies etc. They're also pushing annual passes at every opportunity. Not sure Pleasure Beach would be used as a template of how to run a Theme Park. Maybe Paultons but I don't know much about that.

 

[rob666]

I could go on (surprise surprise)

Yup, and you are imploring again Ash...
Our Matt does a nice tl:dr , do you think you could also provide a succinct summary of your lengthy observations when you do your edit please.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Yup, and you are imploring again Ash...
Our Matt does a nice tl:dr , do you think you could also provide a succinct summary of your lengthy observations when you do your edit please.

Are you requesting a TLR, of a TLR of the previous 20 years of questionable park and corporate decisions, good sir? He hasn't done a bad job at all, if truth be told.

Here's Gemini's attempt at a TLR for you though:

TL;DR: Alton Towers has been underperforming for the past 20 years due to poor management decisions.

Key issues:

* Financialization: Excessive focus on profits over guest experience.
* Poor management: Inconsistent decisions, lack of long-term planning.
* Stagnant attractions: Outdated rides and lack of innovation.
* Subpar guest experience: Poor food, limited amenities, and frustrating operations.
* Missed opportunities: Failure to capitalize on the park's potential as a world-class destination.

The author argues that Alton Towers could be a much better park if it focused on improving guest experience, investing in new attractions, and addressing the underlying management issues.

I am shocked, and in a state of disbelief, that upon this occasion @Ash has left the poor Mutiny Bay car park alone!

Edit: Turns out that TLDR with a colon generates emoji. Who knew?

 

[TedShatner10]

If I’m being honest, I sometimes think the rhetoric used on here is a tad alarmist with regard to the long term trajectory of the resort.

I personally think this forum's problem is wallowing a bit too much in "doom mongering" and seeing things as glass half empty, even if Tussauds/Merlin management slowly lost their way (when financing and marketing has or had far too much say), with their parks like Altons and Thorpe, etc, visibly stagnating from rather unfocused management, lack of long term planning, and relative under-investment in recent decades - nothing was perfect and nothing ever will be, but I can understand the Alton Towers of today is long past the "Golden Age" of the 1980s, 1990s, and early 2000s (where they superficially could do no wrong, and were in an unbroken upward cycle of expanding themed areas and consistently adding one big attraction almost every year, many of which were the best in Europe at the time).

Now, even Alton Towers now in its "Bronze Age" could never quite return to what it was like before the 2010s, but it still has more going for it than against it, and is easily in a better position than present day Oakwood's very perilous position of very few crowds and literally derelict areas (instead of overcrowded and a bit tired, like with Merlin's parks) and its worst case near future scenario will be more in line with mid 2010s Drayton Manor (and even that eventually re-invented itself and now getting new rides).

Here's an outsider themepark enthusiast's recent visit and what he thinks of the place with his fresh pair of eyes:

 

[venny]

I personally think this forum's problem is wallowing a bit too much in "doom mongering" and seeing things as glass half empty, even if Tussauds/Merlin management slowly lost their way (when financing and marketing has or had far too much say), with their parks like Altons and Thorpe, etc, visibly stagnating from rather unfocused management, lack of long term planning, and relative under-investment in recent decades - nothing was perfect and nothing ever will be, but I can understand the Alton Towers of today is long past the "Golden Age" of the 1980s, 1990s, and early 2000s (where they superficially could do no wrong, and were in an unbroken upward cycle of expanding themed areas and consistently adding one big attraction almost every year, many of which were the best in Europe at the time).

Now, even Alton Towers now in its "Bronze Age" could never quite return to what it was like before the 2010s, but it still has more going for it than against it, and is easily in a better position than present day Oakwood's very perilous position of very few crowds and literally derelict areas (instead of overcrowded and a bit tired, like with Merlin's parks) and its worst case near future scenario will be more in line with mid 2010s Drayton Manor (and even that eventually re-invented itself and now getting new rides).

Here's an outsider themepark enthusiast's recent visit and what he thinks of the place with his fresh pair of eyes:

It’s an interesting point. There are clearly a lot of different factors which combine to influence one’s view of the park and industry overall. Price paid, the day itself, luck, ride preference, exposure to different parks and countries, dare I even say age.

For me, on top of all these factors, there’s a question of experiencing numerous previous false dawns. If you’ve been burned previously by an expectation that the park is going to improve, it makes you more critical of the latest promises. For me, there’s definitely a disconnect between the resort saying 2024 is “a truly incredible year”, and the cuts to events, opening hours, poor ride availability, stalled projects, poor and expensive food, closed attractions…. I won’t rehash the whole list again, but you know what I mean.

 

[QTXAdsy]

I do think that since 2005, enthusiasts have really had it all up to here with the park. That year was IMO was when it all all went downhill in which if you remember we lost two classic rides in Black Hole and Toyland Tours which hurt many and the latter was replaced by Charlie that everyone hated with many still bitter about that and combined with that has happened all these years has led to not hatred for the park but pure apathy who many now just want to see the park shrivel up if it means Merlin get their comeuppance. Sounds exactly like the same same state of the Star Wars fanbase honestly.

Even if the park does improve, I suspect many won't care because as mentioned above many have been burnt so badly that it's not hard why many will be so hard to please.

It is just a mess in all honesty.

 

[TedShatner10]

For me, there’s definitely a disconnect between the resort saying 2024 is “a truly incredible year”, and the cuts to events, opening hours, poor ride availability, stalled projects, poor and expensive food, closed attractions…. I won’t rehash the whole list again, but you know what I mean.

Well Altons' management are not exactly going to say "It's been a dreadful year, don't come back in 2025!", however Hex and Skyride coming back (with a mystery flatride) will hopefully be another shot in the arm, alongside with the Nemesis Reborn and Curse of Alton Manor.

And even if Coaster Dash YouTube guy got a mostly positive opinion of Alton Towers, he still noted the ride downtimes and mediocre fast food (with staffing numbers and retention likely being the core of Alton Towers' problems).

I do think that since 2005, enthusiasts have really had it all up to here with the park. That year was IMO was when it all all went downhill in which if you remember we lost two classic rides in Black Hole and Toyland Tours which hurt many and the latter was replaced by Charlie that everyone hated with many still bitter about that and combined with that has happened all these years has led to not hatred for the park but pure apathy who many now just want to see the park shrivel up if it means Merlin get their comeuppance. Sounds exactly like the same same state of the Star Wars fanbase honestly.

What do you mean by "everyone" hating the Charlie and the Chocolafe factory ride that came and went many years ago anyway?

I'm still genuinely sad to hear about the nostalgic Toyland Tours getting retired and intrigued by the Charlie replacement which I never properly seen (with the ride in turn then replaced by the Dungeons which allegedly ended up a worse fit), but I'm less surprised about the Black Hole's demise (when it served it purpose, was a slightly naff late 70s/early 80s product, so had its day alongside the Corkscrew and original log flume).

Time is the great leveller....