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UK politics general discussion

Here are some major companies who according to the Government website failed to pay their workers the minimum wage from 2011-2018. There are probably many more who haven't been caught.
John Lewis plc, Westminster, SW1E, failed to pay £941355.67 to 19392 workers
Martin McColl Retail Limited, Brentwood, CM15, failed to pay £258047.8 to 4366 workers
One Stop Stores Limited, Walsall, WS8, failed to pay £56505.04 to 2631 workers
Welcome Break Holdings Limited, Milton Keynes, MK16, failed to pay £49031.77 to 1591 workers
The Body Shop International Limited, Arun, BN17, failed to pay £34670.81 to 959 workers

This is a disgrace and it shows just how much of a mess this country is in.
Full list: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/employers-named-and-shamed-for-paying-less-than-minimum-wage
 
The government’s official list is a gross under representation, as it’s mainly based on employers who paid people headline rate that was lower than the minimum wage. Often this is because the minimum wage went up and they didn’t adjust their pay straight away. There’s no excuse for that, particularly for big organisations and ones like The Body Shop and John Lewis that are marketed around ethics.

Generally speaking, if a company’s headline pay is below the minimum wage, and they’re a household name, it probably is a genuine oversight, but it does tell us something about where their priorities are. Companies that are deliberately trying to pay people below the minimum wage will find subtler ways of doing it.

In many cases it involves turning a blind eye to things. Junior managers won’t have been specifically told to pay people below the minimum wage, but they will be told that the main thing the company takes into account for promotions, is which managers have kept their staffing budget the lowest. You then end up with people having their hours mis-recorded etc.

You can take someone well below the minimum wage without paying them a base rate below it. Particularly as a lot of minimum wage jobs are part time/short shifts, meaning small things have a bigger percentage impact. For example, if someone has to clock in 20 minutes before they start getting paid, this has a bigger impact in percentage terms on a four hour shift than an 8 hour shift. Someone could easily appear to earn 20% above the minimum wage, but actually earn below the minimum wage, when multiple things are stacked together. Particularly if their shifts are theoretically quite short. Technology also makes it easier for people to work off the clock, such as a manager answering emails at home etc. There are a lot of jobs that pay within 30% of the minimum wage, and in many cases it’s easy to push them below the minimum wage without leaving an obvious papertrail. Particularly if they're not full time. People working 12 hours a week find themselves going in on their days off for unpaid team meetings etc. It's a nightmare.

The government’s good at making it look like it’s doing something (when it’s not) and think tanks are good at making it look like it’s a few bad apples and a niche issue that affects a small number of people (it isn’t).
 
Don't forget most employment laws don't apply until you've been employed for 2 years.

There's very little support out there if you have been unfairly treated before that.
 
...and a break in service of anything more than a few days restarts the clock ticking.
I had a wonderful time with my last local government employer about the technical differences between continuous and contiguous employment.
I took a weeks unpaid leave between posts for the same employer, it was agreed as unpaid leave, but HR decided it was a break in employment...despite a weeks unpaid leave being agreed...
I won an extra two years service through a threat of legal action.
Wiping the floor with the bolshy HR manager was by far the best bit though.
He threatened repeatedly to "mark my card", so I marked his..."the law is the law, check what was actually agreed, in writing, you bloody fool".
He was disciplined and forced to write a groveling apology.
So it ain't just in the private sector that bosses try to shaft the workers.
 
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Pound Sterling has fallen against the Euro recently caused by recent economic data and other factors. Pressure has been on the currency in any case against the Euro since mid 2016 but has been particularly poor in recent months.

It stands at €1.128 as at 10am this morning.

How well our country is doing.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk
 
AstroDan said:
Pound Sterling has fallen against the Euro recently caused by recent economic data and other factors. Pressure has been on the currency in any case against the Euro since mid 2016 but has been particularly poor in recent months.

It stands at €1.128 as at 10am this morning.

How well our country is doing.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk
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This sort of thing is the most worrying to me, when we relay so heavily on financial services to prop up our economy a good exchange rate is vital. Yes I know the exchange rate hasn't been good since 2016 but when it drops this low, which has happened a few times in recent years, it does get very concerning.
 
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Funcone said:
The government’s official list is a gross under representation, as it’s mainly based on employers who paid people headline rate that was lower than the minimum wage. Often this is because the minimum wage went up and they didn’t adjust their pay straight away. There’s no excuse for that, particularly for big organisations and ones like The Body Shop and John Lewis that are marketed around ethics.
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My understanding is that these breaches are usually to do with pay not reflecting things employees have to do as part of their duties - an obvious example which HMRC have clamped down on is things like demanding employees turn up 15 before their shift start time. Every minute spent worked should be paid.

HMRC have also taken exception to organisations who used to pay the minimum wage and also stipulate that employees had to provide uniform items at their own cost (typically shoes or trousers in a specific style or colour), with the net effect that employees didn't actually earn minimum wage. (This is why you see so many shop workers in jeans and trainers now, if they stipulated anything in particular then pay would have to go up to reflect that.)

HMRC have even gone as far as to consider certain 'opt in, save from payslip' type schemes as relevant when trying to determine minimum wage: https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-l...issued to shop staff to wear 'sensible shoes'.
 
With regard to the UK, I do wonder if we’re hitting a point where people might begin to transition more toward left-wing politics due to the perceived failures of the current right-wing government.

I only say this because if I’m remembering my political history correctly, a large-scale move to the right for the UK political system happened under Margaret Thatcher, who was voted in because left-wing politics was deemed to not be working at the time. The previous Labour government had presided over crises such as The Winter of Discontent and were generally not trusted with the economy and other issues. As such, Thatcher was voted in on the basis of radical change, which gave her a considerable mandate to implement conservative policies such as radical privatisation, taking power away from the unions, restraining public spending and cutting taxes. The impact of Thatcher’s policies are arguably still being felt today, with even the New Labour government of 13 years, presiding in No 10 between 1997 and 2010, being much further right than Labour had traditionally been and getting accusations of being “Tories in red”.

Now, it almost feels as though the 1970s are repeating themselves, but with right-wing politics being perceived as failing rather than left-wing politics. We are currently in a cost of living crisis, workers are striking left, right and centre, Liz Truss’ Mini-Budget, filled with far-right economic policies, crashed the economy, and that’s even before we consider the fact that many are now very unhappy with the outcome of Brexit, a project strongly advocated by many on the right. As such, the Conservative government are now pretty unpopular; while Sunak has clawed back some of Truss’ losses, many in the party are still preparing for electoral defeat in 2024.

With this in mind, could the tables be turning towards left-wing politics in the way that they turned towards right-wing politics back in the 1970s?
 
rob666 said:
About flipping time!
Less personal property focus due to stupid crazy house prices, greater willingness to create a more equal society overall?
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Yep the full article on the FT (perk of working for a university I can use work log in to read it) was partly the house prices, partly the previous financial crisis and other factors shaping the generation to prefer redistribution of wealth.
Also two-thirds who had voted Tory before Brexit are no longer willing to support the party and that was before the mess with Truss.
 
Thanks for sharing John as this is very interesting indeed.

I watched something a few years ago about this after the financial crash. It was based around the question of why much of the western world at the time was lurching to the left whilst the UK was choosing right. It all seems very short sighted now with everything that's happened since but a hypothesis put forward was that becoming more conservative with age overall was inevitable as people get richer and look back at younger generations as little different them, or "having it better" than they had it.

It's taken decades to come out in the wash and I think the beginning of this can be seen in challenges against the political establishment in recent years. But for the first time since the second world war, there's a generation now well into their 30's who have worse opportunities and prospects than their parents generation. So I've always hoped that at least could break the cycle. As the next generation after them enter adulthood, this group of people is only getting bigger.

I do think the traditional left right political spectrum is dead though and has been for a long time. Something needs to change, someone just needs to come forward with some bold ideas.
 
I think the flogging off of the council houses had a great deal to do with it...created a whole new generation of working class Tories.
Thatchers bringing in of the "greed is good" anti morality has ridden through two whole generations.
 
rob666 said:
I think the flogging off of the council houses had a great deal to do with it...created a whole new generation of working class Tories.
Thatchers bringing in of the "greed is good" anti morality has ridden through two whole generations.
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I was born 3 years into her reign of terror, and despite all the morality taught by schools and parents, it was at odds with what the world was actually like. Which from then onwards has been pretty much survival of the fittest, swindle, lie, step on everyone else, I'm alright Jack sod everyone else. That's the lessons the grown up world teaches to anyone who wants to get on in life.

Work hard, obey the law and pay your taxes and you won't be able to buy a home and in the current climate, even if you could you wouldn't be able to heat it.
 
I must admit that with the way things currently are, I do often get quite nervous about the future. Whether that's rational or not, I don't know, but I often worry about my own ability to do things like buy my own home in the future.

Currently, I still live with my parents. I'm very happy here, and my parents seem happy with me still being here. They've said to me that provided I pay them 25% of my wages when I start working full-time after university, they're happy for me to stay here for as long as I like.

However, I do have concerns about society judging me if I stay with my parents much past university. Despite me and my parents both seemingly being content with our current arrangement, I worry that people would be ashamed of me if I still lived with them as a working adult. I often hear older people tut about how "incapable" I am for my age, and my nan often reminds me that she had her own home, a husband and one child (and was pregnant with the second) at my age, so I worry that in the working world, people will look down upon me for still living with my parents. As such, I was looking the other week, out of pure curiosity, at the prices of flats in nearby cities where I may possibly get a job (if I do move out of my parents' house, I intend on living alone). I must say, the suggested mortgage rates for these types of properties were very, very high, and I did wonder if I would even be able to pay them on even a good graduate job salary in my field of study (a graduate scheme in Computer Science pays around £35k per year as a starting wage, on average). And if I didn't get onto a graduate scheme, instead getting an entry level Computing job or an unqualified job (e.g. supermarket work, postal work), then I fear that my predicament would not be good in the event that I did move out of my parents' house.

When my dad discovered about my looking, he strongly advised me against moving out of their house and buying a flat alone, saying that I would be far better off staying with them. After looking at the prices and mortgage rates out there at the moment, as well as considering the fact that I am still very happy in my parents' house and they seem perfectly happy with me staying here, I don't disagree with him...

As for how that relates to UK politics, I'll admit I'm not sure (sorry about the tangent... I just thought it might be relevant seeing as folk were talking about the prospects of current young people), but I do wonder if I will ever have the sort of prosperous life my parents and grandparents managed to obtain.

Whether or not I'm worrying irrationally, I don't know, but I do certainly worry...
 
I have a good job very much above the average U.K. wage, and don’t live with my parents.

I’m fortunate that I save into a shares scheme which, if I’m lucky, will provide a good investment and scrape me a house deposit in a few years time. But I haemorrhage money on exceedingly high rental prices and the cost of living is skyrocketing. The system used to be that anyone working full time could buy a house, it’s now turned into you might have a chance, but only if you have a partner, both work full time, make huge sacrifices to your quality of life, and are willing to buy something well over the odds

Something needs to change
 
Matt N said:
I must admit that with the way things currently are, I do often get quite nervous about the future. Whether that's rational or not, I don't know, but I often worry about my own ability to do things like buy my own home in the future.

Currently, I still live with my parents. I'm very happy here, and my parents seem happy with me still being here. They've said to me that provided I pay them 25% of my wages when I start working full-time after university, they're happy for me to stay here for as long as I like.

However, I do have concerns about society judging me if I stay with my parents much past university. Despite me and my parents both seemingly being content with our current arrangement, I worry that people would be ashamed of me if I still lived with them as a working adult. I often hear older people tut about how "incapable" I am for my age, and my nan often reminds me that she had her own home, a husband and one child (and was pregnant with the second) at my age, so I worry that in the working world, people will look down upon me for still living with my parents. As such, I was looking the other week, out of pure curiosity, at the prices of flats in nearby cities where I may possibly get a job (if I do move out of my parents' house, I intend on living alone). I must say, the suggested mortgage rates for these types of properties were very, very high, and I did wonder if I would even be able to pay them on even a good graduate job salary in my field of study (a graduate scheme in Computer Science pays around £35k per year as a starting wage, on average). And if I didn't get onto a graduate scheme, instead getting an entry level Computing job or an unqualified job (e.g. supermarket work, postal work), then I fear that my predicament would not be good in the event that I did move out of my parents' house.

When my dad discovered about my looking, he strongly advised me against moving out of their house and buying a flat alone, saying that I would be far better off staying with them. After looking at the prices and mortgage rates out there at the moment, as well as considering the fact that I am still very happy in my parents' house and they seem perfectly happy with me staying here, I don't disagree with him...

As for how that relates to UK politics, I'll admit I'm not sure (sorry about the tangent... I just thought it might be relevant seeing as folk were talking about the prospects of current young people), but I do wonder if I will ever have the sort of prosperous life my parents and grandparents managed to obtain.

Whether or not I'm worrying irrationally, I don't know, but I do certainly worry...
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It is relevant to politics because decades of government policy has left you in this situation. This problem has been brewing for a very long time, we were talking about a housing crisis over 20 years ago. But politicians didn't care because the people facing this problem were too small in number to effect their electoral chances. As above, it looks like the tables are turning because it's now effecting a huge proportion of the adult population.

You're not worrying irrationally. You're actually thinking very rational Matt. People judging you poorly for being sensible aren't people worth worrying about. Who gives a flying fart about some people who had it easier than you calling you incapable? What a horrible and ignorant thing to say to a young man. When I left school, you could waltz on into a mortgage advisors office, they'd do some "magic" (telling lies basically), the mortgage company wanted your business and would probably sell it on to someone else if you got into trouble anyway so they didn't care and that was that, keys to a new house. Not the case now so don't listen to such horrid comments.

Bide your time Matt. Stay at home as long as you need. I won't be kicking my kids out, they'll be here as long as they need to be. Our plan is to take rent money off of them, don't tell them we're actually saving it as a deposit for them and then gift it back to them when they have enough for a deposit. Don't rush to move out, if you do, there's some very cheap housing just over the border up your way (my brother did exactly that, he bought in Wales and travels into Bristol every day just to get onto the ladder). Once you're on the ladder, even if it's just a small cheap place, believe me your options really start to open up. Don't go for one of these government con schemes like Help to Buy either if you can avoid it. If your parents are happy to have you, save like mad, maybe even make some wise stock investments and try and get £20k or so cash behind you.

It's not simple, it's bloody hard. But you seem like an honest lad who wants to do the right thing. Worry about what matters, not what people think of you.
 
Only own the house because wife's dad bought it (after selling up and moving himself) and you can forgo the deposit via gifting.

£40k deposit is not affordable, even if you can qualify for the mortgage side of it.

Extremely lucky to be on the property ladder. But for most my age the only option is for parents to help or to wait for grandparents to die and hope for a good inheritance.

Living with parents is more common, and the only ones judging people for doing so are those who haven't entered the modern day and realised that not everyone can afford whatever they want and need.
 
We need to

1 build more houses
2 wages go up and/or house prices go down

That’s it

Anything else is waffle
 
If the pricing of housing and energy was more reasonable then wages wouldn't need to go up. Unfortunately, the people in control of the supply of homes and energy are greedy (or unwilling to do anything about the lack of supply). What a time to be alive!
 
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