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UK politics general discussion

Let's be deadly honest here. Unless everyone decides to stop having kids or most people stop having kids, and the ones that do have fewer, the planet is going to hell in a handcart whatever people think they're achieving with net-zero etc. We've already gone too far and human nature and greed means we won't stop until there are no resources left. And then all of the wars over those resources along the way to look forward to. The rainforests are being depleted, the lungs of the earth, for stuff to put in beauty products that no one actually NEEDS. That's how stupid we are as a race. Whether some people move to electric vehicles or change their boiler 5 or 10 years later is rather inconsequential. Virtue signalling that will cost the average member of society thousands of pounds for pretty much no environmental gain in the grand scheme of the planet. The former generations had the best of times, growing up and starting families from the 60s to the 90s. They could crack on and enjoy their lives and prosper if they worked hard, without constantly being told that everything they consumed was killing them and that everything they did was harmful to everyone else and the planet. Since around 2000 the whole thing has gone downhill and even more greed has prevailed and it's only going to get worse. That's just my opinion, of course. Happy Thursday!
 
I remember the real hate for nuclear power, and was a part of it, all tied in with the fear of the bomb, real fear.
Then, studying such stuff, I came to think nuke power would be part of a realistic future, then heard no party would touch the idea with a bargepole, because it would lose lots of votes...so there was no push.
My good old geography teacher said we would all have a fridge sized nuclear reactor in a basement by now, and taking holidays on the moon...
What happened Mr Wooldridge?
We are now up poop creek energywise.
Aircon and warming will only make things worse.
I'm glad I'm old and chose not to breed.
Who would want those little Twits?
 
I see that Rishi's post has now been fact checked 😂

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BarryZola said:
Let's be deadly honest here. Unless everyone decides to stop having kids or most people stop having kids, and the ones that do have fewer, the planet is going to hell in a handcart whatever people think they're achieving with net-zero etc ...
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I don't dispute what you're saying, but it's analogous to "China is the biggest polluter so why should we even bother". You can disregard the climate change argument if you want but things like electric cars would help to make our cities cleaner and less polluted. Pollution accounts for around 28000 to 36000 deaths in the UK every year. Wouldn't it be nice to walk around in cleaner air?
 
Alsty said:
Wouldn't it be nice to walk around in cleaner air?
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Yes, of course. But in my personal opinion the best answer is to bring it in more gradually and by incentivizing people to do more environmentally friendly things and let the change happen naturally over a period of time where people can afford it. Not just adding taxes to everything because people aren't being environmentally friendly enough immediately and then giving people random dates in several years time where you're going to cut off their access to affordable heating and modes of transport.
 
Totally agree with @BarryZola in his posts above. I don’t think we can stop climate change with so many people living in this planet all clambering for the same resources.

For there to be a considerable change in the climate the main polluters China, America, India would need to cut emissions massively almost overnight, and where’s there’s big money involved that isn’t going to happen particularly when you look at how many coal fired power stations they built in 2022 to deal with the global demand for their products which we’re all guilty of importing. How we can say it’s greener to drive an EV which is made in one of these factories is beyond me.

There is also now concern about the brake dust/tire dust emissions from slower speed limits and EVs (which are heavier on the road) being just as bad for us as emissions from petrol and diesel cars so presently I don’t see EVs as the future of transportation or better air quality.

www.kcl.ac.uk

Air pollution from brake dust may have same harmful effects on immune cells as diesel exhaust

Metal particles from the abrasion of brake pads may cause inflammation and reduce the ability of immune cells to kill bacteria a new study has found, similarly to particles derived from diesel exhaust.
www.kcl.ac.uk

www.greencarreports.com

EVs might emit more brake dust, which the EU is stepping up to regulate

Even though EVs use the friction brakes less, some data suggests they generate more brake dust—and the EU is looking to contain that.
www.greencarreports.com www.greencarreports.com

Not to mention the concerns over the mining of the rare minerals found in the batteries and how they are processed once “dead”. I think my next car will be a hybrid rather than full EV.

And I’m all for being green but it has to be sensible, affordable and doable but I question why the UK feels it has to be the global leader in cutting emissions when other countries don’t and when our emissions are tiny to begin with. We seem to be struggling to make ends meet at the moment with the prices let alone then having to fork out £10k extra on the price of a car for it to be electric, or £10k on the price of a gas boiler for a heat pump and necessary insulation. I’d love to put solar panels on my house but that’s another £8k. Sadly for many things, being “green” is still for the rich.

While the PMs statement might be wooly and to win votes, measures such as delaying banning petrol cars, delaying heat pump and boiler rules might help (a) provide time to make these items more affordable (and for the technology to improve, eg battery range and charging) to more people and (b) make people more acceptable to these schemes. The rest of the statement about meat etc was just hot air.

What might have been better however would be if the PM said he was sticking with the original timeline but massively Increasing the grants available to everyone to get an EV, or a heat pump, or solar power because presently there is little incentive for a working person/family to invest in these. I’d love a car which costs £5 to charge and drive up to Alton, but I’m not paying £50k for an EV with that range, and I also don’t want the worry at not being able to get back because I can’t find a working charger on the way!

However going back to my original point, if we all drive an EV and have a heat pump, and all turn vegetarian will it make any difference in the worlds climate ? No unfortunately I don’t think it will.
 
GaryH said:
However going back to my original point, if we all drive an EV and have a heat pump, and all turn vegetarian will it make any difference in the worlds climate ? No unfortunately I don’t think it will.
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Gary, you were all for the UK taking piloting its own course and taking back control of our responsibilities when Brexit was on the cards. But now we have the opportunity to have a say in regards to our own environmental future, then it's suddenly not worth sorting your bins properly because China can't be bothered to do the same?
 
Plastic Person said:
Gary, you were all for the UK taking piloting its own course and taking back control of our responsibilities when Brexit was on the cards. But now we have the opportunity to have a say in regards to our own environmental future, then it's suddenly not worth sorting your bins properly because China can't be bothered to do the same?
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Sorting out the alleged 7 bins Sunak claims that the Tories are opposing is difficult work don't you know?

Solar panels definitely aren't for the rich. My dad has had them installed on last 2 houses. Though I'd imagine most of that money came from selling up in London and moving somewhere cheaper.
 
Plastic Person said:
Gary, you were all for the UK taking piloting its own course and taking back control of our responsibilities when Brexit was on the cards. But now we have the opportunity to have a say in regards to our own environmental future, then it's suddenly not worth sorting your bins properly because China can't be bothered to do the same?
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I don’t see in the slightest what that has to do with Brexit!!! Whether we are in the EU or not we could still lead on climate change or choose not to. Actually at least we can move the date around now if we want to, I think the EU states must ban ICE cars for 2035.

Ps. Always sort my bins properly :)
 
[QUOTE="Benzin, post: 431924, member: 40
Solar panels definitely aren't for the rich. My dad has had them installed on last 2 houses. Though I'd imagine most of that money came from selling up in London and moving somewhere cheaper.
[/QUOTE]

Well yeah I’d imagine that had a lot to do with it!! Ok let me rephrase it - solar panels are possible if you have lots of available cash which you don’t immediately need to pay for food, fuel, mortgage, merlin annual passes 🤣
 
GaryH said:
I don’t see in the slightest what that has to do with Brexit!!!
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I'm asking; why bother 'taking control' of one issue with the promise of a better future when, in your view, our planet is doomed beyond repair anyway? I know you're not a climate change denier, quite the opposite in this case, but it just seems fundamentally lazy and fatalist to choose not to act just because the world order isn't exactly as you'd like it to be?

For reference, I am also extremely pessimistic about the future of earth and have chosen not to bring children screaming into it, undoubtedly in part to allay my own selfishness while here. But we need to be open to change, and as your own consistent reluctance towards it demonstrates, sometimes we need to stamp a date to work towards to make anything happen at all.
 
Oh don’t get me wrong, I’m not at all resistant to change, I guess my view is that we all live in this one planet, if we are going to try and save it we all have to do it and all play an equal part. Why should one country pay more and put in more restrictions than other countries which don’t particularly when our country contributes very little to global emissions?

While we put in restrictions other countries take advantage and boost their economy by selling us things we might have restricted but cheaper. MG electric cars are a great example of this as the Chinese flood the market with these cheap cars massively undercutting other car manufacturers. Why? Huge subsides and cheap power (coal fired) to produce the vehicles. Personally I’d be looking to buy a car made in a cleaner and ethically better country than China but then I have to pay another £20k to do so.

I don’t see Brexit really anything really to do with this.

I’m not a climate denier no but I’m also a realist. I’d love it if every country on the planet especially the biggest polluters really did play their part and by a much sooner date. It’s these countries that should be taking the lead not tiny little UK in my opinion.

Edit in also not saying not to act, I’m saying we do act but it has to be doable and affordable. And we are acting already to be fair.
 
I used to be a climate denier. Used to get so angry about green policies. I bought a book called "climate change and other bollocks." As I thought "right this can arm me with facts against the tree hugging meds!" It actually turned me the other way. The more I read the more I thought "hang on I don't understand any of this. Graphs showing part per million in the ice of the north pole, it actually seems to me to be actually proving the other point" I put the book in the bin.

I think rishi is fighting the good fight for the donors. No suprise that he seems to be In alot of folks pockets. Especially at some of oil firms. No balls to tax them and now this

Anyway best go. All those bins won't put themselves out
 
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We are still in the top 20 for emissions, not great for a tiny little country, for all the hot air, we still pollute above our weight.
 
rob666 said:
We are still in the top 20 for emissions, not great for a tiny little country, for all the hot air, we still pollute above our weight.
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Yeah top 20 I agree but only 0.9% which is tiny when you compare it to China 30.9% and USA 13.5%. We are towards the bottom of the scale

www.statista.com

World's biggest CO₂ emitters 2022 | Statista

Combined, the world’s two biggest polluters were responsible for almost 50 percent of global carbon dioxide emissions in 2021.
www.statista.com www.statista.com

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I was going to post this in the AT general discussion thread but since it’s off topic there it’s probably more appropriate here (although still slightly off topic here, sorry).

The situation with Towers/Merlin installing limited numbers of EV charging spots and those limited spaces likely being taken up all day, this is my whole concern with EVs. I live in an area with street parking only (I’m very lucky if I can ever park by my own home), and my workplace has two EV spaces with charging (a hospital with 600 staff working at any one time). It’s just unfeasible for me to personally invest in an electric car (I would never be able to charge the damn thing!) and I imagine that’s the same for a lot of people in this country. I feel the current technologies are not quite there yet to support the entire country going down the EV route.

I’m all for going electric, I just feel technology needs to really progress and better alternatives need to become the norm before you’re ‘forced’ to buy an EV. In that respect I’m glad the petrol ban has been pushed back.
 
Tom said:
Democracy, capitalism, and greed will kill the planet: "Why should we do it if X isn't?"
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Tony Blair with aviation fuel tax all those years ago, Europe agreed to look into it all those years ago...they are still looking apparently...
Dinosaurs can't move quickly, especially when business interests must be protected.
So fuel is highly taxed for essential journeys, but hey, tourists travel free.
Essential crap logic for a burning planet.

Edit...and being in the top 20 polluters in the 195 nations on the planet does not make our nations pollution levels "tiny", by any measure.
We are close to the bottom of the "top twenty", but there are still 178 countries that pollute less than us...perhaps we need to look closer to home for our response, not " everyone else does it, why shouldn't we?".
Sunak needs kicking out now for his turncoat response to environmental issues.
He can afford air conditioning and a nice pool to cool off, I can't.
 
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