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UK politics general discussion
- Thread starter Craig
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James
TS Founding Member
I haven’t come to my car insurance renewal yet but I’ve found breakdown cover worse, with unnecessary price increases.
Maybe we should get a moaning drivers thread going?
Anyway, the worst thing I’ve found during this cost of living crisis is supermarket prices, everything seems to go up in price every week and even the ‘cheap food’ is no longer cheap. The government needs to clamp down on these supermarkets profiteering from a living crisis and put an end to these ‘membership only’ price schemes such as Tesco’s Clubcard only prices and Sainsbury’s Nectar Card only prices. It feels like supermarkets are left to their own devices with no regulation.
Maybe we should get a moaning drivers thread going?
Anyway, the worst thing I’ve found during this cost of living crisis is supermarket prices, everything seems to go up in price every week and even the ‘cheap food’ is no longer cheap. The government needs to clamp down on these supermarkets profiteering from a living crisis and put an end to these ‘membership only’ price schemes such as Tesco’s Clubcard only prices and Sainsbury’s Nectar Card only prices. It feels like supermarkets are left to their own devices with no regulation.
jon81uk
TS Member
Although the Clubcard/Nectar prices in general are the same offer prices they have always done, you just need to have a card to get the offers now. So although a little bit annoying that you now need a card to get the offer now its nothing to do with the cost of living, the fact that items are on offer for a few weeks and then full price for a few weeks has been going on for decades.
For example Ginster pasty at Tesco used to be about £1.75 but frequently on offer at £1. Now due to inflation the pasty is £1.95 but frequently clubcard price of £1.25.
GooseOnTheLoose
TS Member
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You can only get a Clubcard, or Nectar card, if you're over the age of 18 and have a UK address. If you're a child, a tourist or homeless you are not eligible for a membership card at a supermarket.
It's created an unfair two tier price system where people are essentially coerced into handing over their shopping habit data, in exchange for the prices they've usually always paid. We're told to think it's a great deal. It's not, as you yourself have pointed out.
Yes you could lie about your age, or use a card belonging to a friend or family member, or use fake details, but all of these workarounds go against the ToS of these membership schemes. Break the terms and you're not entitled to the 'membership price'.
You may not think that your shopping habit data is particularly useful, or private; you may think it's fairly trivial. You do need to wonder why all of the big supermarkets are creating such elaborate systems, and enticements, to get you to sign up to their member schemes and hand over this data though.
Luckily the CMA are taking this seriously and are investigating if it is anti-competitive, misleading and ultimately unfair for the consumer.
Watchdog to investigate price cuts for UK supermarket loyalty cardholders
Regulator says that big discounts for members may be restricting competition and disadvantaging those outside the schemes
jon81uk
TS Member
You can only get a Clubcard, or Nectar card, if you're over the age of 18 and have a UK address. If you're a child, a tourist or homeless you are not eligible for a membership card at a supermarket.
It's created an unfair two tier price system where people are essentially coerced into handing over their shopping habit data, in exchange for the prices they've usually always paid. We're told to think it's a great deal. It's not, as you yourself have pointed out.
Yes you could lie about your age, or use a card belonging to a friend or family member, or use fake details, but all of these workarounds go against the ToS of these membership schemes. Break the terms and you're not entitled to the 'membership price'.
You may not think that your shopping habit data is particularly useful, or private; you may think it's fairly trivial. You do need to wonder why all of the big supermarkets are creating such elaborate systems, and enticements, to get you to sign up to their member schemes and hand over this data though.
Luckily the CMA are taking this seriously and are investigating if it is anti-competitive, misleading and ultimately unfair for the consumer.
Watchdog to investigate price cuts for UK supermarket loyalty cardholders
Regulator says that big discounts for members may be restricting competition and disadvantaging those outside the schemeswww.theguardian.com
that is all true but unrelated to the general inflation and cost of living issue and the comment I replied to of supermarkets profiteering from a cost of living crisis. Pretty sure Tesco started the process before the Ukraine/Truss inflation issues.
I agree that locking the offer prices to members only isn't good as it blocks out children etc, but it is unrelated to the overall inflation issues.
John
TS Member
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- Steel Vengeance
This sort of thing mainly impacts people who try to save money by buying discounted items across multiple supermarkets - now you need to join every loyalty scheme to be able to do that. People who always shop at the same store are likely to be in the relevant loyalty scheme already.
Like the disproportionate increase in price of basic foodstuffs, the effects are mainly felt by the least well off.
Like the disproportionate increase in price of basic foodstuffs, the effects are mainly felt by the least well off.
GooseOnTheLoose
TS Member
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- Ug Bugs
Actually it's not unrelated. The ONS and Bank of England do not use any offer, sale, or clubcard price when working out the inflation rate. If Sainsbury's has a pint of milk on Nectar Price at £0.80, but shelf price at £1.50, the shelf price is used in the inflation rate calculation.
jon81uk
TS Member
Yes but those offers existed before they locked them to members only. I assume therefore they didn’t count offers three years ago either then before they were Clubcard only?
jon81uk
TS Member
Co-op I think is a little different as from what I’ve seen their member prices have been very small extra discount. But for Tesco the card price is not what it used to retail for, it’s the same type of offer they have run for years and years. I gave the Ginsters example above, but another is sliced meats, used to be two packs for £3.50 and now it’s Clubcard price two for £3.75, the only difference is you need the card to get the offer price.
I’m not defending the supermarkets, just pointing out that the special offers have always been there, the thing that has changed is making offers members only.
Things have indeed changed, for the worse.
I now buy only newspapers (they work so well here in the cave...especially for lighting the fire...) milk and bread from the local supermarkets...all the rest is aldi...the only one to remain loyalty card free.
Lidl and co op are the latest to jump on the bandwagon...nothing worse than some old dodderer digging out a bloody mobile app to save tuppence on a tin of beans.
I now buy only newspapers (they work so well here in the cave...especially for lighting the fire...) milk and bread from the local supermarkets...all the rest is aldi...the only one to remain loyalty card free.
Lidl and co op are the latest to jump on the bandwagon...nothing worse than some old dodderer digging out a bloody mobile app to save tuppence on a tin of beans.
Craig
TS Administrator
A final polite request to continue discussion about politics. We've had discussion about cost of living and insurance prices in recent days - and while they do affect the decisions made in politics, a lot of these posts aren't really relating them back to the decisions being made by government.
If you'd like to discuss the cost of living, please use other topics or create your own new one. Future posts not related to politics will now be removed.
Back on topic. the Rwanda bill 3rd reading vote is taking place as we speak. The "rebels" as expected are almost certain to have stopped short of voting it down to stick to that sweet sweet government gravy train for another few months. I think that'll be it for any chance of an early election now, those against Sunak have now shown multiple times that they don't have the guts to go against the government and simply fall into line when the tough questions come along.
If you'd like to discuss the cost of living, please use other topics or create your own new one. Future posts not related to politics will now be removed.
Back on topic. the Rwanda bill 3rd reading vote is taking place as we speak. The "rebels" as expected are almost certain to have stopped short of voting it down to stick to that sweet sweet government gravy train for another few months. I think that'll be it for any chance of an early election now, those against Sunak have now shown multiple times that they don't have the guts to go against the government and simply fall into line when the tough questions come along.
Thameslink Rail
TS Member
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Well that's exactly what's just happened, 320 - 276, I'll have to have a look at the lists to see who still has a spine. Hopefully the supreme court stop the planes again. I've also just noticed the Rwandan government have agreed to refund us if the plan falls through, they could put £400M on the side of a bus (remember that?)
Dave
TS Founding Member
The House of Lords will reject the bill or heavily amend it.
But that’s what Sunak wanted all along, then he can blame “Labour Peers” for the bill not passing.
Matt.GC
TS Member
I hope @Craig will be kind enough to let this post be, because the point I want to make is directly related to politics.
There's loads of bad stuff that supermarkets have done over the years, all 100% true, without politicians having to lump false claims on top as well. Ed Davey MP made the completely unfounded claims last year about supermarkets "profiteering" from inflation https://www.libdems.org.uk/press/re...-of-weekly-shop-soars-by-over-pound600-a-year.
As far as I'm aware, no other politicians opposed what he said. Yet the CMA did investigate and found that this was in fact not true https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...-cost-of-living-pressures-in-groceries-sector.
Asda and Morrisons are now privately owned, so is Aldi (which is one of the most secretive organisations in retail), Lidl GB is a subsidiary of Dieter Schwarz , which is listed but not in the UK. But Sainsbury's and Tesco are fully UK publically listed companies, and therefore their books have to be fully open by law. So even if you don't believe the CMA that they've sacrificed margins during soaring inflation to keep prices under control, then feel free to lodge a complaint about the legalities of their financial reporting https://www.about.sainsburys.co.uk/...nual-report-and-financial-statements-2023.pdf https://www.tescoplc.com/media/u1wlq2qf/tesco-plc-annual-report-2023.pdf.
Facts are facts. I suspect the reason food prices are so noticeable is partly due to how high they've risen (I think this sits around 30% in a year?), and the fact food is an essential human commodity, wholly sold by private sector organisations, and is bought regularly. Therefore, not only are you far more likely to notice it, than say a 58% increase in your car insurance which you may only renew every year, or postage stamps sold to you by a state owned company that you'd only buy once in a while, but they're also easy targets for politicians who are running out of solutions and are seeking to find a boogeyman to blame.
Regarding the CMA investigating loyalty schemes, well there's a problem there as well I suspect. The Co-operative movement has offered favourable terms to it's members who use it since it was founded 150 years ago. Because it's members own it. It's how a consumer mutual works. It's no different to a building society like Yorkshire BS or Nationwide offering exclusive savings and loans to its members, or the John Lewis Partnership (which is a workers Co-operative) paying profit share to it's employees, or Arla Diaries (a Farmers Co-operative) offering favourable terms to it's own farmers. It's how a mutual works. It's a well established business model as old as the hills.
Tesco launched Clubcard to not only compete with the "divi" that consumer co-ops offered, but also to harvest large amounts of consumer data. Every time you sign up and accept the lower price, you agree to have your personal data used. May not sound ethical, and I would agree that it probably isn't (watch industry darlings Aldi join in soon as well, Big Data is here to stay and I personally think it's inconceivable that they won't seek to source it themselves as well at some point). But in a world where many seem perfectly happy to give far more intimate personal information to Meta and Elon Musk forever for no financial reward in return have a problem with this? You can see how Tesco and Sainsbury's lawyers would build the case now. Maybe it's easier for your local MP to attack companies that are listed in the UK, abide by UK law, pay taxes in the UK and are fully accountable under UK law, than it is to go after US resided rocket owning Billionaires instead?
Prices are rising at the rate they are in this country due to poor governance. It's failed policy that's to blame. It's easy to blame UK listed PLC's, immigrants, anyone who claims benefits etc for the country's ills, but it's mostly deflection tactics. A single mother is not to blame for public services failing, an asylum seeker has not taken your job, and your local supermarket is not to blame for your tomatoes going up in price. This is classic "look over there" stuff. Your politicians have failed you and they grin from ear to ear every time we point fingers towards anyone else other than them.
There's loads of bad stuff that supermarkets have done over the years, all 100% true, without politicians having to lump false claims on top as well. Ed Davey MP made the completely unfounded claims last year about supermarkets "profiteering" from inflation https://www.libdems.org.uk/press/re...-of-weekly-shop-soars-by-over-pound600-a-year.
As far as I'm aware, no other politicians opposed what he said. Yet the CMA did investigate and found that this was in fact not true https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...-cost-of-living-pressures-in-groceries-sector.
Asda and Morrisons are now privately owned, so is Aldi (which is one of the most secretive organisations in retail), Lidl GB is a subsidiary of Dieter Schwarz , which is listed but not in the UK. But Sainsbury's and Tesco are fully UK publically listed companies, and therefore their books have to be fully open by law. So even if you don't believe the CMA that they've sacrificed margins during soaring inflation to keep prices under control, then feel free to lodge a complaint about the legalities of their financial reporting https://www.about.sainsburys.co.uk/...nual-report-and-financial-statements-2023.pdf https://www.tescoplc.com/media/u1wlq2qf/tesco-plc-annual-report-2023.pdf.
Facts are facts. I suspect the reason food prices are so noticeable is partly due to how high they've risen (I think this sits around 30% in a year?), and the fact food is an essential human commodity, wholly sold by private sector organisations, and is bought regularly. Therefore, not only are you far more likely to notice it, than say a 58% increase in your car insurance which you may only renew every year, or postage stamps sold to you by a state owned company that you'd only buy once in a while, but they're also easy targets for politicians who are running out of solutions and are seeking to find a boogeyman to blame.
Regarding the CMA investigating loyalty schemes, well there's a problem there as well I suspect. The Co-operative movement has offered favourable terms to it's members who use it since it was founded 150 years ago. Because it's members own it. It's how a consumer mutual works. It's no different to a building society like Yorkshire BS or Nationwide offering exclusive savings and loans to its members, or the John Lewis Partnership (which is a workers Co-operative) paying profit share to it's employees, or Arla Diaries (a Farmers Co-operative) offering favourable terms to it's own farmers. It's how a mutual works. It's a well established business model as old as the hills.
Tesco launched Clubcard to not only compete with the "divi" that consumer co-ops offered, but also to harvest large amounts of consumer data. Every time you sign up and accept the lower price, you agree to have your personal data used. May not sound ethical, and I would agree that it probably isn't (watch industry darlings Aldi join in soon as well, Big Data is here to stay and I personally think it's inconceivable that they won't seek to source it themselves as well at some point). But in a world where many seem perfectly happy to give far more intimate personal information to Meta and Elon Musk forever for no financial reward in return have a problem with this? You can see how Tesco and Sainsbury's lawyers would build the case now. Maybe it's easier for your local MP to attack companies that are listed in the UK, abide by UK law, pay taxes in the UK and are fully accountable under UK law, than it is to go after US resided rocket owning Billionaires instead?
Prices are rising at the rate they are in this country due to poor governance. It's failed policy that's to blame. It's easy to blame UK listed PLC's, immigrants, anyone who claims benefits etc for the country's ills, but it's mostly deflection tactics. A single mother is not to blame for public services failing, an asylum seeker has not taken your job, and your local supermarket is not to blame for your tomatoes going up in price. This is classic "look over there" stuff. Your politicians have failed you and they grin from ear to ear every time we point fingers towards anyone else other than them.
pluk
TS Member
We seem to think that inflation is a UK specific issue. There are outliers, and ours is a little higher, but our inflation rate is tracking much of Europe within 1 percent or so.
I think the big area to look at with unjustifiable profits from inflation busting prices are the utilities.
Matt.GC
TS Member
Correct. It's not a UK specific issue, many of the inflationary pressures in other countries have identical causes, and fingers being pointed in similar directions. The UK has performed particularly poorly due to decisions that have been made by the government and our national bank, including longer term ones like privatising utilities in the first place.
Any industry that frequently requires government intervention (utilities, railways, housing as examples) sounds like standard market pressures aren't working to me.