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UK Politics General Discussion

What will be the result of the UK’s General Election?

  • Conservative Majority

    Votes: 3 2.5%

  • Conversative Biggest Party in Hung Parliament

    Votes: 2 1.7%

  • Labour Majority

    Votes: 87 72.5%

  • Labour Biggest Party in Hung Parliament

    Votes: 28 23.3%

  • Other Result (Please specify in your post)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    120
  • Poll closed .
GaryH said:
Spout what rhetoric exactly Dave? Saying that all groups of people in society should all be treated the same in terms of the law? No rule for one and not for another? That’s what I’m saying Dave.

Or does saying such things go against the rules set by the government and we should not critique our dear leader?
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You can't see the Orwellian irony in making Big Brother claims that are clearly conspiracy theories? A conspiracy theory that you've alluded to three times now, alongside others you've spouted such as 2 tier policing, and that far right race riots were about mostly decent citizens being concerned about immigration.

And we all know what online misinformation and conspiracy theories lead to. We saw what happened on our streets the other week. If you're looking for 1984 references in the government, I'd look towards where you get some of your information from first.
 
GaryH said:
Spout what rhetoric exactly Dave? Saying that all groups of people in society should all be treated the same in terms of the law? No rule for one and not for another? That’s what I’m saying Dave.

Or does saying such things go against the rules set by the government and we should not critique our dear leader?
Click to expand...

A great example of how you tell people you haven’t read 1984 without actually saying you haven’t read 1984.

Everyone is treated the same in law pretty much, every one of the rioters where told they had a right to plead not guilty and have a trial by jury, the CPS also charged most of them with violent disorder rather than rioting which carries a heavier sentence so they got lighter sentences than they could have done.

The fact is the rioters pleaded guilty because THERE WAS VIDEO FOOTAGE OF THEIR CRIME.

It’s not rocket science.

The only area of debate is those who have been arrested because of online posts, I mean what they posted was vile but I am cautious when it comes to policing speech, but before you get carried away consider the following:

1) The CPS is independent of the government
2) The law they are applying was created by the TORY GOVERNMENT, and those moaning about it now had no issue with it been used a few months ago….
 
Not just read it Dave (along with animal Farm) but watched the movie too and holy good it was too.

Let’s see…. Mass surveillance of the population, people afraid to speak freely, people reporting their friends and loved ones, the government controlling the media locking up those who speak out of tune.

Sure we aren’t totally there yet but some of it sounds a little familiar to me. Tory or Labour don’t care, I don’t like the direction of travel this country is heading in.
 
GaryH said:
Not just read it Dave (along with animal Farm) but watched the movie too and holy good it was too.

Let’s see…. Mass surveillance of the population, people afraid to speak freely, people reporting their friends and loved ones, the government controlling the media locking up those who speak out of tune.

Sure we aren’t totally there yet but some of it sounds a little familiar to me. Tory or Labour don’t care, I don’t like the direction of travel this country is heading in.
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Who is afraid to speak freely? And which friends and loved ones are reporting people?

The people arrested for the online comments were promoting the mass murder of Muslims and immigrants. As I say I’m not sure how comfortable I am with the prosecutions in some cases, but you can speak freely so long as you don’t promote hate and that has been the rule for over a decade. There is a debate to be had on should you have freedom from consequence when talking about freedom of speech, it’s not clear cut.

The government doesn’t control the media in this country, the media does often control the government (the right wing press have a strong influence in particular). We have never had the 4th estate in the UK but the media stopped being controlled by the government in the 60’s.

Mass surveillance is one part of 1984, it’s the most referenced part because of big brother but the key part of the control in 1984 is making people believe what they are being told even when the evidence clearly shows that isn’t true. The conspiracy theories you spout are generated by people attempting to do just that.

Genuinely if you don’t believe me re-read the book, Orwell was worried about the populace perceiving it no longer needed to “think” and allowing orthodoxy to create mind slaves more than he was concerned about cctv camera’s.

“Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing"
 
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The Conservative Party...propped up by the Liberal Democrats for a third of it...facilitated an erosion of prison capacity and simultaneous uncontrolled population increases. This will soon cause plenty more problems to come in health, social care, wages. etc. Any attempt to address the issues will be labelled as cynical tax rises or attacks on pensioners though.
 
At the risk of people claiming 1984 again, I wish the media in this country was subject to a bit more regulation. Not in terms of content but things like requiring the owners to be British and reside here, and declare significant donors. Also if they post a headline but it turns out to be bollocks, they should be forced to make the apology in the same size and on the same page, not tucked away in small print several pages in.

The media has a lot of power but it feels heavily infiltrated by those with ulterior motives, to the detriment of this country.
 
I really wish some people were too scared to speak freely. Then the likes of UKIP and Reform would be in the bin with the old BNP.

Oh no, it's the consequences of me spouting racist/homophobic/transphobic/assorted bigotry online and people are telling me I can't say things like that anymore.

People have for far too long used the Internet as a place to spout anything they want with a complete lack of responsibility to it. Then when they've been arrested for say, racial hatred over a footballer missing a penalty, they act shocked and the usual suspects go on about freedom of speech.
 
rob666 said:
Sentencing has been a real issue in this area, not trial...it has been repeatedly cancelled locally without reason or notice, yet sentencing has taken place swiftly in the case of rioters.
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Ahh, that's a bit clearer.

I don't really have anything to do with that end of CJ system, but I do have a lot to do with who goes into court from custody. I've got no actual idea what's going on if that is happening locally, but I do know that the demand on a court fluctuates wildly all the time. Just this week on one day I sent over 30 suspects to remand court, the very next day I sent 3. None of them were riot cases. So it is very common for stuff that legally doesn’t have to be heard on the day to be bumped by remand demand which legally HAS to be heard on that day.

So yes the extra demand will lead to that happening, but not specifically bevmcause they are riot cases but simply because they are remand cases.
 
Well, with an academic and past professional interest in criminology, first time this old git has ever heard that we are down to our last hundred prison beds.
Any further riots and we have nowhere to put the naughty people, and we have a warm, end of summer weekend coming up.
And the idiots are well aware of the fact.

Roughly 100,000 in the system, at roughly a thousand pounds a week, each.
So £100,000,000 per week, when the nation is without doubt, chronically skint and up to its neck in debt that is continuing to further mount up following covid.

Anyone want to come over to my side regarding ankle removal?
 
pluk said:
Heading towards areas I'm probably not allowed to discuss specifics publicly, but this exists and it's not a secret its been activated within the last year.

Operation Safeguard - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
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I believe that it's now known as Operation Early Dawn. Are we one for one now?
www.theguardian.com

Crisis measures to tackle English prison overcrowding imminent, says union

POA chair says ministers could declare as soon as Monday that Operation Early Dawn is coming into force
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
Says we could deport foreign prisoners instead. That'd be a start, should free some capacity up easily enough.
 
As I originally said, we are now in a place we haven't been before.
I know policies and procedures exist, but does anyone recall when we have been in this situation before...this level of "completely full up"
Early Dawn was triggered and clearly reported back in May...when there were 300 places remaining.
Today there are only 100, and a busy late summer weekend is before us.
 
GooseOnTheLoose said:
I believe that it's now known as Operation Early Dawn. Are we one for one now?
www.theguardian.com

Crisis measures to tackle English prison overcrowding imminent, says union

POA chair says ministers could declare as soon as Monday that Operation Early Dawn is coming into force
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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Op early dawn and Op safeguard are subtly different.

Safeguard puts potted (court remanded) people back into police custody because there is nowhere for them to go in the prison system they have been commited to.

Earlydawn prevents people being seen in court until they know if there is a place for them to go if remanded, so they stay in police custody longer without the court hearing or remanding them.

Both are legal, but to me one seems fairer, is better planned and better resourced than the other though. I don't like much that comes out of the Met but I did admire their public resistance to political pressure on this occasion though.
www.dailymail.co.uk

Police chiefs will 'never agree to pausing any unnecessary arrests'

A major row broke out among Britain's most senior officers as Scotland Yard announced that it would 'never agree to pausing any necessary arrests'.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

Early dawn has been activated in the last fortnight, Safeguard has been in the last year, and that info is in the public domain. I was doing Safeguard duties 15 years ago! It's well documented that getting down to a hundred or so spaces is not anything new, it certainly appears to be a more sustained acute issue this time though.
 
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This reminds me of that Simpsons episode where they solved the problem by putting bars across the cloakrooms at the back of classrooms in Springfield Elementary.

I'm sure there's a few spare rooms in people's houses across the country. Slip the home owner a few quid, whack some bars on a few bedroom doors and jobs a good 'un surely?

That Bibi Stockholm is going spare now isn't it? Maybe we could chuck a few of the rioters on there for a bit until there's some room on the mainland? Australia's still subject to Charlie's rule as well, chartered flights going spare now that the Rwanda gimmick is off.
 
Poisson said:
Says we could deport foreign prisoners instead. That'd be a start, should free some capacity up easily enough.
Click to expand...

In principle I have no issue with that (and they do get deported after their sentence). But deportation actually does take some time as it is a legal process and often they don’t continue their sentence when they go to their home country so you could argue it would promote crime as immigrants could come over, commit crime and know they just get to go home.

Just a good demonstration on why something that seems simple might in fact not be.
 
rob666 said:
Now come on, how long before Brittania Hotels come in with a cunning plan...
Shipping container units on the car parks?
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As always satire is never entirely far from the truth. Rapid deployment cells, which came in during the COVID-19 lockdowns, are shipping containers dotted around the estate (usually on exercise yards) acting as permanent prison cells. They were supposed to be a temporary solution, but the incoming pressure never eased off and they've become invaluable.

The Ministry of Justice is franticly applying for planning permission, wherever it can, to build more shipping container response cells:
BBC News - Temporary cells approved to tackle prison numbers
www.bbc.com

Kirklevington Grange jail to build more temporary cells

The prison is also given permission to retain "emergency" cells built for the coronavirus pandemic.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com

Not long until The Beach Britannia takes note.
 
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