UK Politics General Discussion

[Squiggs]

Also the poll is for a debate in parliament, which can't actually lead to another election.

Sounds an awful lot like busy work.

 

[Benzin]

Any discussion of the petition in parliament will basically be:

"Do we want another GE? All against?"

*Entire Labour majority say no*

"Excellent let's move on with actual important matters"

 

[rob666]

There isn't even a need for a vote, simply a discussion, I understand.

 

[Dave]

I suspect the speaker won’t table it as Parliament has no power to call an election, only the king can at the advice of the PM.

Even a vote of no confidence doesn’t technically call an election, it’s just that if the government loses a VoNC and a new government can’t get the confidence of the house the PM historically tells the monarch to call an election otherwise government grinds to a halt.

 

[Tom]

Respect the will of the people.

We knew what we were voting for.

 

[Matt.GC]

There was a far bigger petition held in the summer. It was decided that Labour should have a landslide majority. There will be another such petition in 2029 I believe. Something called Parliamentary Democracy last time I checked.

Who gives a toss what Elon Goebbles thinks about the government in a country he is not a citizen of? Didn't his new boss cry about foreign election interference a few weeks ago when some Labour members flew out to campaign for Harris? Musk is scum, what with his cash for votes and own personal propaganda platform. More than a whiff of facism about him.

It's true that the government is unpopular at the moment. Everyone wants the country sorted out, but not off their own backs? Many who sat by and cheered on the Tories and Farage whilst they ruined everything.

I remember writing on here during the election campaign that you ain't seen nothing yet, there's plenty more tough choices to come. The country is in a terrible corner right now, and we need a practical stable government to sort it out. This isn't over and it's about time many woke up to that fact.

I have no idea where this notion of being less popular than the last lot keeps coming from? That's a few times that's been mentioned on here now so I'd like to know where this information is coming from? I accept they aren't popular, but as bad as the last term? Not on your life. Even their own and their media budies turned against them. So what's the deal?

I'm mostly happy with what I've got. The messaging is terrible, Starmer isn't too good at politics. Winter Fuel bribes were long overdue, but poorly timed, hastily implemented, and poorly communicated. The farmland inheritance tax loophole policy was good, but could have been hard to argue against if it was implemented alongside reforms and breaks for struggling farms. The employers NI rise was desperately needed, but again not thought through well enough. But I'm glad we have a government that's at least trying and facing in to these issues. Better than lies, corruption, pretending everything is great, and whacking everything unsustainably on the nations credit card.

Still too timid for my liking, and that's my main concern. The country needs investment and taxes need to rise further, especially capital gains and inheritance tax. Some of those election promises have painted them into a corner. Still extremely early days, so I hope there's some bigger stuff coming over the hill.

On assisted dying, I hope a law can eventually be drafted and passed. Me and my partner are doing our wills in January, and my wishes to put me out of my misery will be in there. I've watched too many people suffer until their last breath in my life.

 

[Matt N]

Sorry if this is a slightly random question, but as it’s related to politics; would someone mind explaining to me why Elon Musk is angry at Keir Starmer again, and Starmer has had to defend himself against Musk in a statement today?

I know it has something to do with a historic rape case, but from having read a few articles, I don’t get why Musk thinks that Keir Starmer and other individuals like Jess Phillips should be in prison? I’ll admit that aspect of it is confusing to me from what I’ve read.

For inexplicable reasons, though, Elon Musk does seem to have it in for our current government more generally at the moment; he started a poll on Twitter the other day asking who thinks that the US should invade the UK to free us from our “tyrannical government”…

 

[Leigh]

It’s around the whole “Muslim r-gangs” controversy - there were a number of high profile cases between the late 90s and the early 2010s of child grooming by British-Pakistani men in the Oldham, Rochdale and Rotherham areas. It’s alleged that police and the CPS didn’t properly investigate or prosecute cases and actively attempted to cover them up (and Keir was at the time head of public prosecutions, as he’s said on numerous occasions). Note I say alleged, as the evidence that there was any sort of cover-up is patchy at best or downright misinformation at worst. Lots of people have been, and continue to be, prosecuted for these offences to this day.

It’s all very messy. And the entire notion that there is a disproportionate number of British-Pakistani men committing CSA was debunked when Priti Patel commissioned a white paper when she was Home Secretary to investigate group characteristics in CSA; which came to the conclusion that actually race or gangs didn’t really come in to it at all and white men were the most likely perpetrators.

 

[rob666]

Musk is a rich boy, who got lucky with family money and white privilege... like Trump.
He sits on the far right, running a social media shitshow free for all, with the (current) support of the future loony president.

Starmer is a bit on the left, another easy target for him in Europe... and the right had a full decade in power to sort the issue out...but let's not let the truth in round the edges.

Robinson is another right wing multi criminal, who nearly brought down one of the actual abuse gang cases through contempt of court.
So he deserves freedom according to the moron Musk.

At least his turning on Farage was amusing...

The future looks hell, I'm glad I'm old!

 

[Benzin]

Old Stephen Yaxley-Lennon who knew his posh name wouldn't work with his racist mates so changed it you mean?

Hell if Farage is trying to distance himself you know he's a bad one. At least from a PR perspective. Shows how much Musk even knows since to kick Farage off he'd have to buy up his shares in the limited business that Reform actually is.

I do like the mental gymnastics by many who a few years ago DESPISED the alleged foreign intervention into our politics but now welcoming Musk with open arms. Bunch of self-centred hypocritical numpties.

Even funnier was seeing Andrew "under house arrest and unlikely he'd be allowed to step onto British soil without being arrested" Tate trying to navigate his way into politics. Although the worry truly comes from those who have been inducted into these cult-like followings of these "personalities".

 

[Dave]

It’s around the whole “Muslim r-gangs” controversy - there were a number of high profile cases between the late 90s and the early 2010s of child grooming by British-Pakistani men in the Oldham, Rochdale and Rotherham areas. It’s alleged that police and the CPS didn’t properly investigate or prosecute cases and actively attempted to cover them up (and Keir was at the time head of public prosecutions, as he’s said on numerous occasions). Note I say alleged, as the evidence that there was any sort of cover-up is patchy at best or downright misinformation at worst. Lots of people have been, and continue to be, prosecuted for these offences to this day.

It’s all very messy. And the entire notion that there is a disproportionate number of British-Pakistani men committing CSA was debunked when Priti Patel commissioned a white paper when she was Home Secretary to investigate group characteristics in CSA; which came to the conclusion that actually race or gangs didn’t really come in to it at all and white men were the most likely perpetrators.

Just for clarity Starmer was DPP when the CPS started prosecuting these cases (he was DPP 2008 to 2013). Musk is trying to suggest he didn’t but it was actually him who told the regional prosecutors to ignore concerns around attacks around racial bias and go after the gangs. Also yes the various reports have sown around 80% of these crimes are committed by white men, but the gang nature was found to have a cultural element so it wasn’t completely debunked.

It’s important facts are clear in these matters.

Musks Dad seems to have some generalised hatred of the UK and the left and it seems to feed to him.

 

[flyingguitar]

Hell if Farage is trying to distance himself you know he's a bad one. At least from a PR perspective. Shows how much Musk even knows since to kick Farage off he'd have to buy up his shares in the limited business that Reform actually is.

Yeah, I am not sure on what Robinson has done but if Farage isn't associating with him then he must be quite bad, but elon attacking Farage is quite comedical as Farage is the main person of reform. it is very clear musk doesn't understand how politics works in the UK, as it is a very different system to America, reform without Farage wouldn't be a party.

I think this was inevitable (although happened quicker than I imagined) and will probably happen in the US as elon's, trumps and Farages ego won't allow them to disagree (as you can see here) and something will happen where elon disagrees with Farage or trump on some policy and a huge argument happens (already had an incident in the US with the visa thing, but trump bowed to elon).

Also DOGE is such a stupid concept for so many reasons, a billionaire deciding the taxing, deciding the required benifits of people who make so much less, someone who owns companies who probably wouldn't mind not having to deal with environmental protections etc

The Uk isn't perfect, one thing I want to change is that political adverts on the internet should probably be banned (they are banned for TV, but from what I understand not internet) and reduce the amount money can impact elections.

 

[Dave]

Yeah, I am not sure on what Robinson has done but if Farage isn't associating with him then he must be quite bad, but elon attacking Farage is quite comedical as Farage is the main person of reform. it is very clear musk doesn't understand how politics works in the UK, as it is a very different system to America, reform without Farage wouldn't be a party.

I think this was inevitable (although happened quicker than I imagined) and will probably happen in the US as elon's, trumps and Farages ego won't allow them to disagree (as you can see here) and something will happen where elon disagrees with Farage or trump on some policy and a huge argument happens (already had an incident in the US with the visa thing, but trump bowed to elon).

Also DOGE is such a stupid concept for so many reasons, a billionaire deciding the taxing, deciding the required benifits of people who make so much less, someone who owns companies who probably wouldn't mind not having to deal with environmental protections etc

The Uk isn't perfect, one thing I want to change is that political adverts on the internet should probably be banned (they are banned for TV, but from what I understand not internet) and reduce the amount money can impact elections.

Yaxley-Lennon (Robinson) nearly collapsed a trial of a child abuse gang by contempting court, because he cares so much about the victims he nearly allowed the rapists to go free….

However Farage doesn’t care about that, Yaxley-Lennon is terribly unpopular in the UK despite what Twitter suggests and he wants to keep his popularity up…

 

[Matt N]

The Uk isn't perfect, one thing I want to change is that political adverts on the internet should probably be banned (they are banned for TV, but from what I understand not internet) and reduce the amount money can impact elections.

This might be a controversial view, but one thing I would advocate for is the newspapers being forced to be impartial in the same way as broadcast news.

I don't know what anyone else thinks, but I sometimes find it difficult to fact check things published in different newspapers, as their individual biases (e.g. Telegraph and Express on the right, Mirror and Guardian on the left) often seem to mean that they can completely contradict each other and paint vastly differing pictures of a situation. At times, I find it difficult to know which version to believe.

I do feel that forcing the newspapers to be impartial in the same manner as broadcast news (e.g. BBC News) would allow for more robust fact checking and remove some of the ambiguity.

Back to the subject of Musk, I find it odd how he seems to change his mind on things very often. One minute, he's about to gift a record political donation to Reform... but the next, he's saying that Farage "hasn't got what it takes" and needs to step down as leader. One minute, he's campaigning with Trump on an anti-immigration platform... but the next, he's saying that the US needs more immigration and raising the hackles of many Trump allies as a result.

On the Reform point, I actually think Musk has it wrong from the standpoint of their electoral chances. My view is that a large part of why Reform has become so insurgent in recent months (since summer 2024) is Nigel Farage and his personal charisma and popularity. You only have to look at the way Reform's polling numbers shot up when Nigel Farage announced that he was joining the UK election and standing in Clacton; you can say what you like about him, but he has clearly been very successful at galvanising a not insignificant cross-section of the population. I agree with him on very little politically, but I don't think Reform would be doing nearly as well as they are if it wasn't for Nigel Farage.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Yaxley-Lennon (Robinson) nearly collapsed a trial of a child abuse gang by contempting court, because he cares so much about the victims he nearly allowed the rapists to go free….

Alongside various football hooliganism convictions and the founding of the English Defence League. An extreme-right wing nationalist hate group, famed for their marches and violent interactions with people who look vaguely of southern Asian heritage.

you can say what you like about him, but he has clearly been very successful at galvanising a not insignificant cross-section of the population

Many, many news outlets, writers, philosophers, politicians and members of the public felt the same about the former leader of the NSDAP too.

Back to the subject of Musk, I find it odd how he seems to change his mind on things very often.

You've not likely had much interaction with people who regularly take Ketamine.

 

[flyingguitar]

This might be a controversial view, but one thing I would advocate for is the newspapers being forced to be impartial in the same way as broadcast news.

are they not? I though all news had to be impartial, I would defiantly agree if this isn't the case

On the Reform point, I actually think Musk has it wrong from the standpoint of their electoral chances. My view is that a large part of why Reform has become so insurgent in recent months (since summer 2024) is Nigel Farage and his personal charisma and popularity. You only have to look at the way Reform's polling numbers shot up when Nigel Farage announced that he was joining the UK election and standing in Clacton; you can say what you like about him, but he has clearly been very successful at galvanising a not insignificant cross-section of the population. I agree with him on very little politically, but I don't think Reform would be doing nearly as well as they are if it wasn't for Nigel Farage.

Yeah consider what happened to UKIP after he left it is practically dead only 6,500 votes in 2024.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

are they not? I though all news had to be impartial, I would defiantly agree if this isn't the case

Only broadcast media, regulated by Ofcom, has to attempt political neutrality. Newspapers don't count as broadcast media and aren't properly regulated. Even IPSO, the Independent Press Standards Organisation, is actually owned and funded by the newspapers that subscribe to it and is a form of self regulation / marking your own homework.

 

[Dave]

are they not? I though all news had to be impartial, I would defiantly agree if this isn't the case

Yeah this is what worries me, so many people (and this isn’t a dig at you most people would probably think the same) assume Newspapers have a legal obligation to tell the truth.

Newsflash…. They don’t. You could theoretically sue for libel but it’s hard and expensive so only the rich ever bother.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

You could theoretically sue for libel but it’s hard and expensive so only the rich ever bother.

And even then, in the unlikely event that you win and are awarded damages, it wouldn't cover the legal costs. It's also notoriously difficult to sue for libel and win.

 

[Tom]

Sorry if this is a slightly random question, but as it’s related to politics; would someone mind explaining to me why Elon Musk is angry at Keir Starmer....

He's not. He has a personality disorder that requires a constant need for attention, power, and influence.