UK Politics General Discussion

[Benzin]

Sounds like many MPs (who were probably standing down anyway) are upset that this has been announced and plan to oust Sunak with the old "vote of no confidence".

This would delay the election from happening.

Are all Tory MPs spineless self-serving arses? Gotta drag out that £80k annual wage as much as possible.

 

[Jonathan]

Are all Tory MPs spineless self-serving arses? Gotta drag out that £80k annual wage as much as possible.

Well, I wouldn't be surprised. My MP has apparently described herself in the past as 'a Christian first and a politician second', but she's consistently voted along party lines, including in favour of things that many would describe as anti-Christian. I don't get it.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

'a Christian first and a politician second'

I didn't realise your father was an MP!

 

[Jonathan]

I didn't realise your father was an MP!

Very funny, Goose. Fiona Bruce (no, not the newsreader) is my MP.

 

[Dobba]

Paul Mason has now failed to be selected by Labour in:

• Mid and South Pembrokeshire
• Islington North
• Stretford and Urmston
• Sheffield Central

And by gum it put them on the map.

 

[BigT]

The folks at the end of Downing Street blasting out ‘Things can only get better’ over Rishi’s speech was a nice touch .

I thought it was childish, really makes me want to vote labour.

 

[Matt.GC]

I know the current government don't like freedom to protest, but I thought it was hilarious, as inoffensive childishness often is. Better still, a few minutes before he came out they played 'The Imperial March' from Star Wars. If only they could have synchronised that with the door of No. 10 opening.

 

[Dobba]

I know the current government don't like freedom to protest, but I thought it was hilarious, as inoffensive childishness often is. Better still, a few minutes before he came out they played 'The Imperial March' from Star Wars. If only they could have synchronised that with the door of No. 10 opening.

Don't worry Starmer has plans to repeal that appalling piece of legislation.

Sorry, no plans to repeal it. My bad.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Don't worry Starmer has plans to repeal that appalling piece of legislation.

Sorry, no plans to repeal it. My bad.

Oh divine Dobba, praise be to Dobba! Please do, share your enlightenment. Keep it from us no longer! Whom among our choices are the lessers of all evil?

I mean, seriously, please. All suggestions welcome. Happy to have a constructive dialogue. I prefer to hear about actionable plans, things to do, issues to rally behind, candidates and policies to support rather than mudslinging, name calling, candidate bashing and playground Kursaal Flyers little does she knows that I know that she knows stuff.

 

[Dobba]

Oh divine Dobba, praise be to Dobba! Please do, share your enlightenment. Keep it from us no longer! Whom among our choices are the lessers of all evil?

I mean, seriously, please. All suggestions welcome. Happy to have a constructive dialogue. I prefer to hear about actionable plans, things to do, issues to rally behind, candidates and policies to support rather than mudslinging, name calling, candidate bashing and playground Kursaal Flyers little does she knows that I know that she knows stuff.

Here you go - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...avid-davis-mark-rowley-republic-b2335670.html

A month later Starmer whipped his Lords to abstain on a motion that would have killed the bill and so it passed into legislation.

There is no lesser evil. You're going to get a Prime Minister who thinks war crimes are fine, surrounded by lackeys who defended his comments until he came up with the utter crap, nine days later after it rightly blew up in his face, that he was answering a different question. Oh and alongside him will be a Chancellor who doesn't think anyone in receipt of benefits deserves political representation and the last time she was running for a government job wanted to be 'tougher than the Tories on welfare' and between them they've already decided to also keep the two-child benefit cap, despite the fact binning it would take a quarter of a million kids out of poverty overnight.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Here you go - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...avid-davis-mark-rowley-republic-b2335670.html

A month later Starmer whipped his Lords to abstain on a motion that would have killed the legislation and so it passed.

That's not an answer to the question I asked.

Whom among our choices are the lessers of all evil? I know you don't like Labour under Starmer, you've made that perfectly clear on a few occasions now.

We can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, so what do you propose? I'd like to hear about some alternatives. I'm willing to be constructive. I don't want to hear about what you're not condoning or getting behind, that's boring. That's like me asking you what you want for dinner and you replying "fish are wet".

 

[Dobba]

That's not an answer to the question I asked.

Whom among our choices are the lessers of all evil?

It's literally in the paragraph under the two sentences you just quoted.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

It's literally in the paragraph under the two sentences you just quoted.

That wasn't in your initial posted reply, you edited it, which is fine, but you could at least state that rather than getting a bit snarky.

Is your suggestion not to vote at all then? Surely then by pure omission I let the worst possible scenario happen? The trolley problem, no?

 

[Dobba]

That wasn't in your initial posted reply, you edited it, which is fine, but you could at least state that rather than getting a bit snarky.

Oh divine Dobba, praise be to Dobba! Please do, share your enlightenment. Keep it from us no longer!

Thank you for the advice on not being snarky.

Starmer is appalling and he is absolutely, without question, going to be Prime Minister. My alternative (or lesser evil, as that is your term of choice) is either walking out of the polling station or getting to 10:01pm having not been near one on July 4th with the knowledge that I didn't vote to help him get there, so I can live with myself for the five years of attacks on our most vulnerable, minority groups he'll throw under the bus in his pathetic attempts to keep Murdoch and friends onside and NHS privatisation he has in store for us all.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Thank you for the advice on not being snarky.

Starmer is appalling and he is absolutely, without question, going to be Prime Minister. My alternative (or lesser evil, as that is your term of choice) is either walking out of the polling station or getting to 10:01pm having not been near one on July 4th with the knowledge that I didn't vote to help him get there, so I can live with myself for the five years of attacks on our most vulnerable, minority groups he'll throw under the bus in his pathetic attempts to keep Murdoch and friens onside and NHS privatisation he has in store for us all.

But he's not the only candidate, Labour aren't the only party. Is there not a candidate that you'd preference instead, or a party we can rally behind, rather than not participating in the slightest?

I'm all for highlighting a problem, but I do find suggesting a viable alternative, or solution, to be far more constructive and generally a bit better for society. I'd rather not be the person passing a car with a flat tyre yelling "tyre's flat mate!", pointing out the obvious and not helping in at least some small way.

 

[Dobba]

But he's not the only candidate, Labour aren't the only party. Is there not a candidate that you'd preference instead, or a party we can rally behind, rather than not participating in the slightest?

I'm all for highlighting a problem, but I do find suggesting a viable alternative, or solution, to be far more constructive and generally a bit better for society. I'd rather not be the person passing a car with a flat tyre yelling "tyre's flat mate!", pointing out the obvious and not helping in at least some small way.

There is no alternative, he's going to be Prime Minister. Gary Glitter has more chance of headlining Glastonbury than anyone other than Starmer being Prime Minister after July 4th. The Tories have more chance of being the third biggest party in the Commons than being the first.

What do you want me to say? Vote Green and come July 5th, whoever their leader currently is will be PM? I'll leave the bare-faced lying to Sir Keir.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

There is no alternative, he's going to be Prime Minister. Gary Glitter has more chance of headlining Glastonbury than anyone other than Starmer being Prime Minister after July 4th. The Tories have more chance of being the third biggest party in the Commons than being the first.

Oh cool, so I guess we don't need to run the election then?

What do you want me to say? Vote Green and come July 5th, whoever their leader currently is will be PM? I'll leave the bare-faced lying to Sir Keir.

Well that would be a welcome start. Don't you feel as though your vote is actually of use voting for the Greens than not voting at all? Surely if Labour are going to win, then by not voting for them you're effectively voting for them?

First past the post makes it unlikely that secondary parties will actually get in to power, but Labour's big problem is that the left vote is split a heck of a lot more than the right.

Tory voters won't turn out in this election, but the left will and if they're not happy with Labour then they have choices. If the left vote is split enough, rather than the turnout being low, then it's not a foregone conclusion or a landslide. You're talking a possible Labour minority, a possible coalition, or heck even a Tory minority.

At this moment in time it's all to play for, and it's better to play than shout at the television about how everyone got it wrong apart from you and this is why we can't have nice things, or how it was all inevitable.

 

[Dobba]

Oh cool, so I guess we don't need to run the election then?

Well that would be a welcome start. Don't you feel as though your vote is actually of use voting for the Greens than not voting at all? Surely if Labour are going to win, then by not voting for them you're effectively voting for them?

First past the post makes it unlikely that secondary parties will actually get in to power, but Labour's big problem is that the left vote is split a heck of a lot more than the right.

Tory voters won't turn out in this election, but the left will and if they're not happy with Labour then they have choices. If the left vote is split enough, rather than the turnout being low, then it's not a foregone conclusion or a landslide. You're talking a possible Labour minority, a possible coalition, or heck even a Tory minority.

At this moment in time it's all to play for, and it's better to play than shout at the television about how everyone got it wrong apart from you and this is why we can't have nice things, or how it was all inevitable.

You're acting like I didn't give two options for how I'd spend July 4th. Right now there is no named Green candidate in my area, I haven't received a blow to the head big enough to forget the Lib Dems conning me and no independents who haven't decided the country's ills are down to there being too many brown people in the area have emerged either. As it stands, I could go to the polling station, draw a massive meat and two veg on my ballot paper and hope it doesn't get counted as a vote for Starmer.

It's not all to play for, you're kidding yourself. It's a 20ish point lead across all the polls and that's just the gap to the only other party it's even remotely possible, as you pointed out, could win any election in this country. Right now the Tories would rip your hand off to still have triple digit MPs in the Commons on July 5th. In fact, they'd sell their grannies for it. The Greens would sell them for more than one MP and the Lib Dems would sell them to do a deal with the Tories again.

Even if you made a conscious effort to campaign to get some of the most awful of Starmer's MPs out, like Wes Streeting or Thagnam Debbonaire for example, they'd be in the Lords for life the second the summer recess was over.

 

[Benzin]

Even most of Starmer's worst MPs aren't as bad as some of the current incumbents surely?

It's very difficult for the left side as Labour have lurched to a more centrist position in order to combat the further right lurch by the Tories to fight for the contestable areas. They don't really need to given that the majority are sick of the current situation in my opinion but I wouldn't be surprised if it was also to distance themselves from Corbyn again.

Red Tories isn't too far from the reality at the moment. However FPTP does mean that many feel that their views will never be represented. Its a difficult situation to be in.

See what the manifestos bring. Though those often are less worth than the paper/bandwidth they use up.

 

[Jb85]

Local rumours to me are that BoJo may be making a comeback as our MP candidate replacing Nadhim…..

Could be fun